Vicipaedia:Taberna

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Index

Japanese athletes: capital letters and non stipula[fontem recensere]

Perhaps some kind programmer would like to devise a program that would change [[Pediludium|Pedilusor]] [[Iaponia|Iaponiae]] to [[pediludium|pedilusor]] [[Iaponia|Iaponiensis]] (or something like that), saving the author some wasted time. ¶ Also, in view of today's Japanese athletes (but pertinent generally), could a program be devised to insert {{Non stipula}} at the top of articles whose texts (excluding nexus interni & externi, bibliographies, and so forth) have fewer than 200 letters each? That would save other vicipaedians some wasted time. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:53, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

As to the number of letters, 200 isn't a magical concept, and maybe some other number in that vicinity (250? 216? 193? 176?) should be the criterion. Even better: perhaps a kind programmer would want to devise a program that would make a list of all the pages whose texts fall in certain ranges (say, from zero to 187, or from 175 to 225), with the limits being experimentally movable, so that the effects of setting the criterion at a given number can profitably be contemplated. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:53, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that information would be very useful! Agreed, 200 means nothing, though some such target may help to identify pages whose creators aren't even able to say one notable thing about the subject.
A propos of that, I feel sure a bot could make some improvements to the new pages you mention, but it couldn't add useful and interesting text, which is what they really need ... :( Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:00, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
For comparison's sake: *this text* has about 141 letters (right now), so I've marked it NS. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:49, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
For the record: it gained several hundred more letters overnight and has therefore become a stipula. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:48, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Impressionalistically, I'd say it's approaching the cusp of stipulability, but (like many of the commentaries on French hamlets) it may not be quite there. So 200 is probably an appropriate benchmark, but if a bot were to be able to do the NS marking as discussed above, we might want first to compare an array of examples to determine whether some other number, slightly higher or slightly lower, might not be better. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:49, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
*This one* has about 127 letters. It's a fine definition, perhaps more than adequate for a geographical dictionary, but the text lacks that certain "aliquid maius" that would make it an ideal vicipaedian text. So 127 letters is probably too few to make a stipula. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 22:03, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
UVbot could change [[Pediludium|Pedilusor]] [[Iaponia|Iaponiae]] to [[pediludium|pedilusor]] [[Iaponia|Iaponiensis]], if that is what we agree to do with this pages. As Andrew supposed, UVbot cannot, however, add content to these pages that is not already present there.
Using the dump of December 26, I have compiled a list of all pages not longer than 250 bytes: Project:Dump/Paginae breves. However, I feel that the decision (not) to mark a page {{non stipula}} should be made by a human examining the page rather than a bot looking at the page size. --UV (disputatio) 23:26, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
That's probably a good idea. Is there a way of making certain that unknown user Japan Football knows of this invitation to impose the formula {{Non stipula}} on most of the—hundred or more?!—articles that he or she added yesterday? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:57, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Hmm, you know the answer to that -- one can only write on JapanFootball's talk page, as we all three have done :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:45, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Well, yes, but can we force the user to read it? ("You can lead a horse to water, but can you drench him?") The immediate worry, which one hopes will be proved premature, was that the user, having barged in to impose (in the order of magnitude of) a hundred formulaic nonstubs without having tested the waters by trying the formula out beforehand, here in the taberna, was in effect (though, one hopes, not intent) being quasivandalistic. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:07, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Usor:Japan Football created 239 new pages in the article namespace within a total time span of less than 6 hours. --UV (disputatio) 22:28, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
There was no response on the talk page. If JapanFootball doesn't come back within a generous week and assuming no one else wants to improve them, I propose deleting those pages. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:53, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, certainly those that aren't stubs! A single page on Japanese football might be more useful to most potential readers. A curious discovery about the wikifying process is the popularity of contributing many little things instead of one big thing. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:49, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I will not object to deletion of these pages (magistratus can do that very easily via Specialis:Nuke, inserting "Japan Football" as username of the user whose page creations should be deleted). --UV (disputatio) 13:59, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I wonder whether "Japan Football" is going to come back here soon, since he has a history of being blocked on several wikipedias, including for not responding to comments on his talk page (sv.wikipedia): Special:CentralAuth/Japan Football. We might also want to block him (but leave his own talk page open so that he can, if he wishes, explain). --UV (disputatio) 19:33, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I didn't think to check cross-wiki activity. Good idea, I'll block him (allowing use of talk page). If he says "I want to improve those same pages", that might be fine and he could be unblocked, but that, sadly, seems the least likely result. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:04, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
In fact that is what happened ... He is now working on those pages. I will leave to others to judge whether he is making them into acceptable stubs. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:55, 4 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Furthermore, we currently have a backlog of more than a thousand pages at Categoria:Non stipula. What do we intend to do with that mass of pages - are we going to delete them automatically after 6 months (which is not what I would be ready to do), or is someone going to propose them individually for deletion after 6 months? Before that is sorted out, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to tag much more pages as non stipula. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 23:26, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
A highly useful list! Thanks! We note right away that (at least) two kinds of articles might want to be exempted from the wordcount rule: articles about years, and articles about forenames. More thinking is advised. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:46, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
We discussed above whether certain groups of very short articles (essentially dictionary definitions, but important to the encyclopedia) should be guaranteed safe. A suggestion was that some of these groups could be linked with a navbox that indicates their special status. See now Decimetrum. Actually the year pages are linked by navboxes already, and we can surely agree that it is pointless to mark these year pages "Non stipula". We need them.
The forename pages (for non-classical-Latin forenames) are different in that no one defines them and their spelling and meaning and etymology are often uncertain or variable. An encyclopedia that has such articles should treat them as full scale articles, to be properly documented, I think. But it isn't easy to do. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:45, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, on second thought, the forenames probably should be full-fledged articles. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:07, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

And then at the other end of the scale, we have big articles that someone has marked as stubs. I just encountered one that was 17,219 octeti in size, and have removed the non-stipula formula. A lot of articles on Italian hamlets fall into this class, especially in the range of 3000 to 6000 octeti. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:15, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

And now another one, at 12,185 octeti. These things abound! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:20, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I have now created a new list of short pages where year pages are excluded: Vicipaedia:Dump/Paginae breves. --UV (disputatio) 22:28, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
That's a very useful list. It would be easy to go through it, looking for pages that can be grouped in series. Useful series can be linked with a navbox (cf. Decimetrum and Aulus) or else converted into redirects to a page that deals with the whole series. Of pages that don't belong to any evident series, the very shortest (minimal text, no sign of notability, no external link or source) could be deleted or tagged "Delenda". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:53, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I agree with all that, and thank UV for the list. Progress is being made! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:49, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
If anyone wants to comment at Disputatio:Index praenominum, please do! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:03, 6 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

The formula for Japanese athletes[fontem recensere]

For example, a text added today:

Alessandro Santos (三都主 アレサンドロ Santos Alessandro?, natus in Maringa die 20 Iulii 1977) est pedilusor Iaponiensis, sed etiam Turmae Pediludicae Nationalis Iaponiae (2002 - 2006) lusor est. Alessandro Santos inter alia cum turma Shimizu S-Pulse et Urawa Reds lusit.

Things to consider: (1) The name is wrong (Italian, not Latin). (2) Why the question mark? (3) Why not the locative? (4) The sequence of tenses is faulty. (5) Use of the pagename formula results in clumsy prose (for the second one, qui might read better). (6) Why isn't it turmis? As I've suggested earlier, continuing to impose articles that are entirely formulaic without first checking with the community is inadvisable. For a lesson in how to do it right, see the history of the formula by which several thousand articles on asteroids were created (it's archived somewhere). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:22, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

I can't remember where it is, but you're right, some very careful discussion took place.
Recently many of the Wikipedias have grown enormously in exactly the way that Japan Football is doing it, Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:47, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Bear in mind that the articles on asteroids are several times as long as the recent articles on football players—and informative enough to qualify on all counts as genuine stubs. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:33, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
but whether this is any use to their readers I don't know. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:47, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
These sorts of articles have never seemed to have much use to me (and I've created precious few of them, e.g. Neiafu), but the counterargument is that everything deserves an article; certainly our founder has been quoted as having said that every human deserves an article ("notability" be damned). Every new article that has less than 200 (or maybe even 500 or 1000) letters lowers the mean length of Vicipaedia's texts, and by that measure of "Vicipaedian quality" lowers the value of the entire enterprise. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:33, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
It's ironic that he set silently to work on the very day we had agreed to cut down on the production of new stub pages! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:47, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Irony abounds! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:33, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I think the proper way for us to go is gradually to increase our standards. On en:wiki, for example, the minimum requirement for a page is far higher than it was ten years ago. That, I guess, is what we're engaged in this year, and at some stage -- perhaps quite soon -- pages like these will fall off the edge. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:47, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, strict enforcement of the 200-letter cutoff would do the trick! But do six months still have to elapse? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:33, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
No, that's not a law or even a policy -- it was just me, replacing 7 days with 6 months because we were adding a large number of "Non stipula" tags all at once! I believe, at some stage, I chose the number 200 as well. Anyone else could alter the template again. You're our censor: if anyone has the gravitas to do it, you have. I wonder if anyone else will comment ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:09, 7 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Another option that just occurs to me is to have an alternative "Non stipula" formula specifically for pages created after 1 January 2016. We have, after all, agreed and broadcast a new policy -- avoid creating very short pages -- to be applied from that date. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:15, 8 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
That would seem a good way to me. On the one hand, we need to be careful not do discourage via sudden deletions of good-faith page creations newbies/tirones that are able, at least after a number of weeks/months, to contribute useful content to Vicipaedia. But on the other hand, very short pages with contents that do not add much to what Vicidata already knows, are not too useful. A new "non stipula" formula that allows newcomers who are eager to learn and to find their way around Vicipaedia six months to improve their page creations, while very short pages created on or after January 1, 2016 without remarkable content that are not improved after six months may be deleted, seems to strike the balance well. --UV (disputatio) 19:37, 8 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I'll draft something, then. As you are maybe hinting, Japan Football is working harder than other wikis' experience led us to expect; there is meaningful communication; he is prepared to see the least promising pages deleted. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:39, 9 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
And all that tinkering, mirabile dictu, improves Vicipaedia's reputation—because a higher number of edits per article is alleged to be a sign of higher quality. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:16, 9 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Please consider Formula:Augenda. Any changes needed? Should a minimum length be added or not? Is 3 months enough or not? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:03, 9 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Gratias ago tibi, Andrea, maximas, qui hanc formulam instituisti. Quam libenter Theodisce vertam. Praeterea minora aliquot iuxta rem ipsam disputabo. Tres menses quod adtinet, is terminus mihi quidem satis largus videtur. An mentem tuam recte concepi, qui hanc formulam non nisi in paginis abhinc creatis puto applicandam? Laurentianus (disputatio) 17:02, 9 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Collaboratione tua gaudeo, Laurentiane. Ita, versionem Theodiscam adde! Possumus (ut mihi videtur) hanc formulam in paginis brevioribus post diem 1 Ianuarii 2016 creatas imponere; fortasse et in veterioribus. Quid dicunt alii? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:25, 9 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Nemine usque adhuc abnuente, possumus formulam {{Augenda}} in novis paginis brevissimis ("non-stipulis") imponere. Audacter recensete et corrigite, o amici, tam formulam ipsam quam paginam annexam Vicipaedia:De paginis brevioribus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:28, 10 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

categoria:historici Italiae[fontem recensere]

Illi qui de Italia scripserunt aut illi qui Italiani sunt? --Alex1011 (disputatio) 21:30, 26 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

Qui Italici/Italiani sint profecto erunt historici Italici (vel historici Italiani). Eximia locutio classica est civis Romanus sum, non civis Romae sum. Ergo, ut videtur, qui historias Italiae scribant historicos Italiae appellare debemus. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:00, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Bonum est scire. --Alex1011 (disputatio) 17:25, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Neque omnes Italici neque omnes de Italia scribentes. Casu genetivo in titulis categoriarum de incolis civitatum utimur: ita "Incolae Italiae" sunt qui in Italia habitaverint; tali modo "Artifices Italiae" sunt artifices qui in Italia habitaverint; tali modo "Historici Italiae" sunt historici qui in Italia habitaverint. Si, sicut hoc casu, sensus ambiguus sit, explicationem addere possumus, quam nunc ibi addo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:33, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, usu vicipaediano, categories are a special case. I was thinking of running text. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:45, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Happy Public Domain Day 2016![fontem recensere]

Logo Public Domain Day

Feel free to translate this message in your language!

On January 1 we celebrate Public Domain Day as many works of authors who died 70+ years ago now enter the public domain and can be used freely.

Let us be aware: copyright is temporary. It only lasts during the authors lifetime and 70 years afterwards (in most countries). During those years it is limiting Wikipedia and her sister projects in showing works of art, literature, public art and buildings in countries without freedom of panorama, and more in the articles. But now a new batch is freed from copyrights!

An overview of images and texts that are restored or added to the Wikimedia Commons, are collected on: this page.

Many of these files still need a place in articles. You can help!

You can also help by uploading new files of subjects that are freed of copyrights.
You can also help by tagging all requests for deletion pages with the category when the file can be restored, which will be/was deleted.

As I follow the log of restored files this week, more images and texts will follow. If still files or texts are missing in the list, let me know or add them yourselves.

A very happy Public Domain Day! Romaine (disputatio) 13:18, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)


  • Some of the freed files:


Mobile view[fontem recensere]

Memini oportet editoribus qui paginas recensent (dico ego) iam plus quam 30% lectorum non computatris magnis sed tabulis telephonisque mobilibus ad Vicipaedias accedere (qui numerus certe crescit et crescet). Quando igitur faciem et structuram paginae constituimus, necesse est de aspectu "mobili" consulere. Si duas imagines, aut capsam et imaginem, aut capsam permagnam, aut imaginem latam iuxta praefationem ponimus, ipso facto omnem textum ad pedem paginae demittimus. (Textus autem, re graphicá omnino carente, oculos lectorum hodiernorum fatigat.) Ergo quando satis verborum habemus, melius erit rem graphicam primam neque valde magnam ad caput paginae, rem graphicam secundam (tertium etc.) non iuxta praefationem sed post rubricas imponere. De hac re quid dicunt alii?

When revising pages it is, I think, important to keep in mind that already over 30% of Wikipedia readers are reading it on a hand-held device, and this proportion will surely grow rapidly. (This was new information to me: discount the enthusiasm of a convert.) So, when considering the layout, number and placement of images, etc., we should look at the mobile view (use link at foot of any page) before deciding.

It appears to me that having more than one image, or an infobox plus an image, or just one wide image, or a very big infobox, in the initial section is likely to push the whole text a long way down. (But having no graphic at all makes the introduction boring.) So, as soon there is enough text to matter, it is better to put second and additional graphics below the first and later section headings. I wonder if others (especially any who read Vicipaedia on hand-held devices) agree or disagree? Maybe other guidelines spring to mind? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:11, 3 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Gratiae tibi sint, mi Andrea, qui meos, fortasse etiam aliorum oculos ad hanc facultatem mobilem vertisti, cuius plane immemor fui. Profecto duriorem praebet et exsanguem fere aspectum. Omnino optimum factu est modum quendam servare in paginis exornandis. Ad quod assequendem sine dubio valde utile erit aspectum mobilem conferre. Laurentianus (disputatio) 13:56, 4 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

De categoriis aspectu mobili invisibilibus[fontem recensere]

Computatro meo "aspectus mobilis" Vicipaediae monstrat imagines, capsas informationis, capsas navigationis, sed non categorias. (Aliis linguis nonnullis, inter quas Anglicá, capsas etiam navigationis invisibiles sunt.) Nisi mutatio quis proponatur, mihi videtur categorias editoribus assiduis utiles sed lectoribus plurimis mox ignotas fore. Alii quid de hac re censent?

On my screen the mobile view shows our images, infoboxes and navigation boxes but it does not show categories. (In many other languages even the navigation boxes do not appear.) Unless some change is intended, this suggests to me that categories will in the future only be useful to active editors; soon the majority of users won't even be aware of them. Any other comments on this? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:41, 4 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Wikimania 2016 Scholarships - Deadline soon![fontem recensere]

Please help translate to your language

A reminder - applications for scholarships for Wikimania 2016 in Esino Lario, Italy, are closing soon! Please get your applications in by January 9th. To apply, visit the page below:

Patrick Earley (WMF) via MediaWiki message delivery (disputatio) 01:49, 5 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

De nexibus ad Communia[fontem recensere]

A year and a half ago, we talked about links that point to Commons – more specifically, links that point to categories on Commons (via {{CommuniaCat}}) and links that point to galleries on Commons (via {{Communia}}).

Over the years, among the more than 75.000 links to Commons, we had accumulated about 6.000 broken links to Commons as well (= links pointing to a redlink on commons).

  • Of these, about 1.000 broken links pointed to Commons galleries. I have by now dealt with these (most were easy to deal with, because in most cases I found a commons category that was able to replace the broken link to the gallery).
  • Then, there were several thousand broken links to Commons categories where Wikidata knew a good replacement (a statement with d:Property:P373 on the corresponding Wikidata item). I have corrected these by replacing our broken link with the link from Wikidata.
  • So by now, only ~688 articles and ~143 category pages remain where the link to the commons category is broken and Wikidata knows no replacement. These articles and category pages can be seen at Categoria:Paginae cum nexu ad Communia rupto. What shall we do with these? If we agree, UVbot could remove the {{CommuniaCat}} template altogether from these articles and category pages.

Using Wikidata also allows us to compare the link we use to the link Wikidata knows of. The two categories Categoria:Error formulae CommuniaCat (~324 cat, ~1.865 pp.) and Categoria:Error formulae Communia (~256 pp.) list articles and category pages that point to a valid ("bluelink") category, gallery or redirect on Commons where nevertheless Wikidata (via a statement with d:Property:P373 or d:Property:P935 on the corresponding Wikidata item) proposes a different link target. I have changed {{CommuniaCat}} and {{Communia}} so that in these cases they show both link targets. If you come across such an article or category page, it might be a good idea to check whether the link target should be changed (either here on Vicipaedia or on Vicidata).

Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 20:07, 10 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-02[fontem recensere]

16:59, 11 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Newfangled box[fontem recensere]

Is there a way of keeping the newfangled box from deranging the layout? Vide, e.g. Antiquitas. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:46, 12 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

You have an oldster's definition of "newfangled": it was added to the page by Golradir six years ago (less two weeks), and it seems to have been Ssolbergj who designed the current version of the portal boxes in 2013. OK, OK, that's pretty new :) I don't know whether their effect on the layout could be tweaked, but they aren't compulsory and I find it is better simply not to put them on short pages that also have images.
So, you could delete it; or you could do what I've done right now, which is to put it first on the page, before the text and any images. The simple question is, is it important enough to take that privileged position? If not, delete it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:17, 12 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
I think I fixed the problem, by adding a "clear:right" property to the mother template (Formula:Capsa seriei), though we should check if it messes up any other pages. That should allow us to choose the ideal order of the images and boxes, whatever that may be. Lesgles (disputatio) 15:32, 12 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
That's a much better solution than mine! They are useful, certainly, even if not compulsory. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:20, 12 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

de quadam caeruleitate[fontem recensere]

Cum quasdam nostrae vicipaediae paginas observo, verba vere trivialia litteris caeruleatis saepius scribi mihi videntur. Cum nostra, ut spero, a studiosis linguae latinae attente legantur, tamen ego quidem ea non adaeque etiam a pueris vix prima rudimenta discentibus perquiri puto. Quae cum ita sint, cur homines iam diu ultra primas litteras latinas aliquantum progressos litteris caeruleis ad vocabula maxime cotidiana, quae a primis annis iam noverunt, dirigendos esse putemus? Secundum meam opinionem, ut talibus adiumentis lectores opis indigos opportet adiuvare, ita tamen dictam nimiam paginarum - sit venia verbo - caeruleitatem exaggerare non iuvat, eo modo, ut ad omnia fere verba, de quibus paginas habemus, commendationes faciamus. An aliud censetis? Habemusne, o sodales, omnino aliquid of feedback (voces resilientes?) lectorum nostrorum non scribentium? --Bavarese (disputatio) 20:58, 12 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

The comment printed above invokes a long-standing but only temporarily unresolvable discussion, one that will almost certainly be resolved by technology within another couple of decades. If you don't like the color blue, by all means use the long-ago-requested gadget (in "meae praeferentiae") to enable you to turn colors off. (Hovering the cursor should still reveal the linking.) As technology marches on, all words will surely have links, made automatically, perhaps not involving coding in what we think of as the text : after a thoroughly analytic electronic dictionary has been built up outside the visible part of Vicipaedia, the machinery will know to link, for example, mentibus to mens—except when some alternate link is desired, and then a human may have to add some coding to make a technically unexpected connection (until that, too, is made automatic!), as, for example, in the first paragraph of en:England, where the word part—perhaps one of those trivial, schoolboy words you don't want to see blue!—is linked to the article Countries of the United Kingdom. Additionally, the color of links is editorially useful: I myself, by now, after eight or nine years, may well have added 1000 articles so as to turn red links blue; indeed, a proportion perhaps approaching half the articles I contributed in 2015 served that purpose. Additionally, a not entirely negligible point is that links apparently gain Vicipaedia points according to the lists of the 1000 and 10,000 most important pages—and they thereby improve the "wikipedian quality" of the enterprise, as defined in Meta and therefore as perceived by readers. But as noted, this has all been discussed before. ¶ Out to lunch; no Latin. ;) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:57, 14 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
De hac re iam in Taberna disputavimus. Qui nexus ad res communes et triviales addiderunt, contra utilitatem lectorum egerunt. Remove igitur audacter nexus minime utiles, mi Bavarese. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:15, 14 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-03[fontem recensere]

17:55, 18 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

2016 WMF Strategy consultation[fontem recensere]

Please help translate to your language

Hello, all.

The Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) has launched a consultation to help create and prioritize WMF strategy beginning July 2016 and for the 12 to 24 months thereafter. This consultation will be open, on Meta, from 18 January to 26 February, after which the Foundation will also use these ideas to help inform its Annual Plan. (More on our timeline can be found on that Meta page.)

Your input is welcome (and greatly desired) at the Meta discussion, 2016 Strategy/Community consultation.

Apologies for English, where this is posted on a non-English project. We thought it was more important to get the consultation translated as much as possible, and good headway has been made there in some languages. There is still much to do, however! We created m:2016 Strategy/Translations to try to help coordinate what needs translation and what progress is being made. :)

If you have questions, please reach out to me on my talk page or on the strategy consultation's talk page or by email to mdennis@wikimedia.org.

I hope you'll join us! Maggie Dennis via MediaWiki message delivery (disputatio) 19:06, 18 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Latin is missing[fontem recensere]

Latin is missing from this page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/There_is_also_a_Wikipedia_in_your_language
More than 100 languages are now listed.
Thank you, Varlaam (disputatio) 17:12, 22 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Varlaam -- I've added Latin. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:05, 22 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-04[fontem recensere]

16:38, 25 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Article Placeholder: do we want to try that, or do we have too many placeholders already? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:48, 29 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I was wondering that.
I feel doubtful. From a user's point of view, a service we should hope to perform is to supply an acceptable Latin name for something, if we do little else. The problem with such placeholders is that they won't even have a verified Latin pagename.
However, biological taxa would have a pretty reliable Latin pagename. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:10, 29 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Dictionary of Medieval Latin from British Sources[fontem recensere]

Novus fons apud Logeion qui nobis utilis esse posset: "Update January 2016: We are delighted to announce the advent of the Dictionary of Medieval Latin from British Sources in Logeion." Vide e.g. sub "DMLBS" carrus, Lundonia, vicus...

Eugepae! Magnificum lexicon. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:47, 29 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Macte!Est verbum Arrestare!--Jondel (disputatio) 21:51, 31 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Quid potest verbum temporale posse?[fontem recensere]

Facite quaeso ne nimis kritikón me putetis! Sed in paginis discretivis legens e. g. Gallicanum seu Gallicanus potest ..., me ipsum rogo, quid hoc verbum 'posse' possit. Utique sententia A potest B sensu carere mi videtur, nequaquam idem est ac A potest esse/significare B. (Num vocabulum latinum cum italiano valere confunditur?) --Bavarese (disputatio) 18:07, 31 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Consentio. Credo auctorem fortasse constructionem ellipticam erroneam facere voluisse. Ego cum haec video, ad "potest esse" muto, quod quaestionem casus nominativi aut accusativi vitat. Vide etiam hanc disputationem priorem. Lesgles (disputatio) 20:59, 31 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
"X potest" (sine pluribus) sunt verba Nuadae, qui multas paginas discretivas suo modo facit. Nobis oportet formulam fixam paginarum discretivarum statuere, si consensum invenire possumus! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:58, 31 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Tecum consentimus. IacobusAmor (disputatio)
Placet, optime. --Bavarese (disputatio) 19:17, 2 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Toth[fontem recensere]

Si tibi lectori placeat qua videtur dubium sit et emenda si possis. Gratias tibi ago.Jondel (disputatio) 13:13, 1 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

North Coast Inland Trail‎[fontem recensere]

Si tibi lectori et magistro placeat qua videtur dubium sit et emenda si possis. Gratias tibi ago.Jondel (disputatio) 13:13, 1 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-05[fontem recensere]

21:02, 1 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Bold text in search page[fontem recensere]

A small matter, but perhaps easily fixable: on the search page, e.g. [38], the whole page appears in bold, including the top and side bars. Is there an extra ''' somewhere in the code? Lesgles (disputatio) 03:32, 2 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad. I have now fixed this at translatewiki:MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new/la, should take effect within a few hours. Thank you for pointing this out! --UV (disputatio) 21:28, 2 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
As of right now, the "Eventum investigationis" page remains all in boldface. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:13, 3 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
Corrections made using translatewiki can take 2-3 days to get here. I wouuldn't worry yet. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 16:13, 3 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Formula falsa[fontem recensere]

In ima pagina hanc sententiam lexi. "Novissima mutatio die 10:16 hora 8 Februarii 2016 facta". Formula ergo corrigenda est. Quomodo fiat, nescio. Quis adiuvabit? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 09:23, 8 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Corregi apud TranslateWiki; post paucas dies novam formulam videbimus. Gaudeo te errorem invenisse! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:30, 8 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
Peccaveram ego. Vos vigilantiores huic mendo remedium invenistis. Optime fecistis! Laurentianus (disputatio) 10:31, 9 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-06[fontem recensere]

18:58, 8 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Nomen usoris mutare[fontem recensere]

Salvete omnes! Quomodo potuerim nomen meum usoris mutare ad alterum scire volo. Potestisne me adiuvare? Gratias multas iam ago!--LeKalitusFace-glasses.svgnuntia? 12:34, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Salve! Vide Special:GlobalRenameRequest. --UV (disputatio) 19:29, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-07[fontem recensere]

16:16, 15 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Observanda?[fontem recensere]

Mirabiles res hodie factae: "(Index nominum impositorum)‎ . . [Zww makriaa‎; Sibi libi nini‎; Première louche‎; Moufte pas‎; Le loup sans confession‎]" IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:44, 20 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-08[fontem recensere]

18:22, 22 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #1—2016[fontem recensere]

Elitre (WMF), 19:21, 26 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Wikimania 2016: call for posters, discussions and trainings[fontem recensere]

Hi people,
the calls for posters, discussions and trainings for Wikimania 2016 are officially opened, you can find all the relevant links on the conference wiki:

https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions

The calls will be closed on March 20.

Posters will be reviewed just to make sure that there aren't things which are too much out of scope. Since we have a whole village we will surely find places to attach them, even if we they will be a lot!

Discussions will be managed by a guiding committee who will work on the wiki to meld all the proposals and suggestions.

Trainings will be reviewed by the programme committee. Please note that we request that each training has at least 3-5 interested attendees in order to be put in the programme.

By the beginning of April we will have a first list of all the accepted proposals.

If you have questions we suggest you to ask them on the discussion pages on wiki, so that everyone will be able to see them (and their answers, of course).

We are looking forward to read your ideas! --Yiyi (disputatio) 15:39, 29 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-09[fontem recensere]

20:12, 29 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Iterum de quadam voce mutanda[fontem recensere]

Salvete huius tabernae hospites! Aliquot menses est, cum disputavimus de abolenda illa usoris voce minus Latina, pro qua decetero collator vel potius conlator diceretur. Quodsi vox illa maxime ad paginas speciales pertinet, velut “disputationes usorum” vel eorum ipsorum paginas, necesse est talem et tantam mutationem a superioribus, qui Vicipaedias scribunt, rogare, priusquam “minores” dictiones denuo et melius verti possint. Quae sunt apud metawiki 350 fere phrases.

Ad eam mutationem quam felicissime rogandam utile erit, ut quam plurimi sententiam de ea re ferant. Itaque hic et nunc duo proposita velim, quorum unum iam constitutum esse videtur, id est, ut pro “usore” in posterum “conlator” dicatur. (Quia formae non assimilatae apud nos plurimum vigent, velut “conlationes”, “adscripta quaedam”, ita ut morem nostrum sequi videamur.)

Alterum, de quo sententias vestras rogo, pertinet ad eorundem conlatorum genus vel potius sexum. Forma enim feminina („conlatrix“) facillime dicitur. Quamquam aliquando (vel alio loco) suffragia contra sexus distinguendos lata sunt, in quo constituendo, ni fallor, imprimis Andreae Dalby gravitas atque auctoritas plurimum valuit. Facillimum est eam ipsam sententiam tenere. Quodsi ita fieri volemus, in praeferentiis eligendis illa optio “sexus profitendi” deleri oportebit, quoniam in tota Vicipaedia Latina sexus ipse nullatenus respicitur. An ita fieri placet? Laurentianus (disputatio) 23:33, 1 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Gravitas! Auctoritas! Procul sint! ... Vide et disputationem ab Anna inceptam de discipulo suo, cui disputationi mera oppositio conlator/conlatrix responsum sufficientem non dat. Pro me, amice Laurentiane, certe consentio. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:02, 2 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Gaudeo consensu tuo, mi Andrea. Disputatio illa nescio qua ratione me effugerat. Verum maximam partem harum distinctionum non ad sermonem nostrum spectare existimo. Mihi quidem usus maiorum satis esset, qui, dum res ad personas pertinent, cuique genus suum tribuere solebant, nisi idem minoris momenti esset velut in agendo cum populo aliave turba mixta. Itaque vellem, et conlatores et conlatrices haberemus. Magis autem faveo simplicitati et abolitioni vocum, quae nequaquam Latinae sunt. Ergo et ipse censeo unam conlatoris vocem inducendam. Laurentianus (disputatio) 15:28, 3 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Secundum UV, hanc quaestionem e pagina introductiva delere, etiamsi inutilem, impossibile est.
Eodem tempore observo UV ipsum de verbo "Usor" in pagina disputationis sua tibi iam respondisse. An responsum utile fuit? De mutatione, quam suades, minime dissentio. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:03, 6 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Help[fontem recensere]

Hello. Can somebody help me with Petrus III (rex Aragoniae)?--Artificial123 (disputatio) 17:35, 7 Martii 2016 (UTC)

It looks like you used Google Translate from English to Latin, which at the present stage produces gibberish. If you let us know what you wanted to say, we may be able to help, but the entire article will need to be rewritten. Lesgles (disputatio) 14:55, 14 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-10[fontem recensere]

20:24, 7 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Completion suggestor[fontem recensere]

- User:CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 22:09, 7 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Machine translation support enabled today for Content Translation[fontem recensere]

Hello, machine translation support for Content Translation (beta feature) has now been extended and enabled for users of Latin Wikipedia using Yandex. It can be used when translating Wikipedia articles into Latin with Content Translation. To start using this service, please choose ‘’Yandex.Translate’’ from the ‘’Automatic Translation’’ dropdown menu that you see on the sidebar after you start translating an article. Please note, machine translation is available from all the languages that are supported by Yandex.Translate, but Content Translation can still be used in the usual manner for translating from all languages, with or without machine translation support.

Wikimedia Foundation’s Legal team and Yandex had collaborated earlier to work out an agreement that allows the use of Yandex.Translate without compromising Wikipedia’s policy of attribution of rights, privacy of our users and brand representation. Since November 2015, Yandex machine translation has been used for articles translated for Wikipedias in 7 languages. Details about Yandex translation services, including a summary of the contract are available on this page. More information about the machine translation services in Content Translation is available on this page. We request you to kindly take a look at these pages.

We have tested the service for use on the Latin Wikipedia, but there could be unknown problems that we are not aware of yet. Please do let us know on our Project Talk page or phabricator if you face any problems using Content Translation. Our message is written in English only and we will be very grateful if the message could be translated into Latin for other users of this wiki. Thank you. On behalf of WMF Language team: --Runa Bhattacharjee (WMF) (disputatio) 12:17, 11 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Oh dear. "Nuntius noster est scriptum in latine tantum, et nos valde gratum, si nuntius posset transtulit in latinum pro aliis users in hoc habuit." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:54, 11 Martii 2016 (UTC)
"Unknown problems that we are not aware of yet" are, I think, "unknown unknowns" in the famously concise formulation of a certain US politician. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:40, 11 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Hello. Well, I assumed that some editors may prefer reading the message in Latin, hence the request. I hope I did not end up making a faux pas there. :) But on a serious note and also to address Andrew Dalby's comment, we would really like to hear if there is any feedback about content quality, ease of use, technical complications or any other matter so that we can keep track of it in our development planning and schedules. As of now, we don't see many articles that have been created in the past week and we will keep monitoring the statistics page to check. But please feel free to let us know your feedback at any time. Thank you.--Runa Bhattacharjee (WMF) (disputatio) 07:22, 17 Martii 2016 (UTC)
No problem: some of us here do not speak English, and the only reason no one translated, I guess, is that writing encyclopedia pages is an even more urgent task!
So, thanks for your message. I have noted some content translations here. The quality is as yet poor, one unnecessary problem being that the machine thinks we use Roman numerals. But I'm sure its intelligence will improve rapidly. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:48, 17 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing it out. That is indeed a good point to note. I will take it back to team and also we will let the machine translation system developers know about this, in case they can train their system to better handle the numerals. Thank you.--Runa Bhattacharjee (WMF) (disputatio) 10:55, 17 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Machines translating moast of times somewhatly this like on Latin read. Machines translating must to being delete. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:02, 17 Martii 2016 (UTC)
... or to being improve. I feel optimistic today :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:23, 18 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Ancient Greek incubator project / Ἡ Βικιπαιδεία ἑλληνιστί[fontem recensere]

Wikipedia-logo-v2-grc.svg

Dear Vicipaedia members, there is currently an ongoing proposal to have an ancient greek wikipedia created, so if interested you are welcomed to participate and share your thoughts, as well as participate in the actual incubator wiki. Best regards. Gts-tg (talk) 12:46, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Why is it being called BIKIΠAIΔEIA instead of OUIKIΠAIΔEIA? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:54, 14 Martii 2016 (UTC)
The current (third) name was finally agreed on in 2009: here's the discussion. From this discussion it seems the first name was the one you suggest, Οὐκιπαιδεία :)
I followed the link and added my support for the proposal. For about ten years now the language committee has been very sticky (not to say stuck) against languages that are neither native nor artificial. So they may be difficult to persuade, but I wish the Ancient Greek Wikipedians the best of luck. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:33, 14 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Well, BIKIΠAIΔEIA is going to confuse Cicero redivivus. Hawaiian wiki = English [wiki] = Classical Latin [wiki] = Ancient Greek [wiki], and the way Cicero's dear friend Atticus is going to write that is as OUIKI. An Attic word written BIKI is going seem to Cicero like [biki], or, if he dresses up in a modern toga, [viki] (if he can manage to enunciate that at all). To further confuse the matter: precontact Hawaiian /w/ did approach a bilabial /v/ = [β]; however, the wiki in Wikipedia is mediated through the English pronunciation, where /w/ = [w]. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:01, 14 Martii 2016 (UTC)
There were several discussions with candidates being Οὑικι-, Fικι-, Βικι- or Ἰκι. However given that el.wikisource.org which holds a lot of ancient greek texts is Βικι, the Βικι version is followed. The incubator project does offer a variety to choose from in it's landing page however. Gts-tg (disputatio) 15:17, 14 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Don't understand. A test project exists. Is this discussion about moving it out of Incubator? StevenJ81 (disputatio) 16:17, 16 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that's it. The name was fixed years ago, so that issue is probably academic! As I said above, I think they'll have difficulty, but do follow the link and support them if you want to. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:38, 17 Martii 2016 (UTC)
Ne obliviscamur: Sunt, qui linguam Graecam anticam modo Graeci moderni pronuntient: Ioannes Reuchlin, christifideles orthodoxi, egometipse et multi alii. Illis omnibus scribendi modus ΒΙΚΙΠΑΙΔΕΙΑ valde placet. Giorno2

Tech News: 2016-11[fontem recensere]

18:37, 14 Martii 2016 (UTC)

New Wikipedia Library Accounts Available Now (March 2016)[fontem recensere]

Apologies for writing in English. Please help translate to your language

Hello Wikimedians!

The TWL OWL says sign up today!

The Wikipedia Library is announcing signups today for free, full-access accounts to published research as part of our Publisher Donation Program. You can sign up for access to research materials from:

  • Cambridge University Press - a major publisher of academic journals and e-books in a variety of subject areas. Access includes both Cambridge Journals Online and Cambridge Books. 25 accounts.
  • Alexander Street Academic Video Online - a large academic video collection good for a wide range of subjects, including news programs (such as PBS and BBC), music and theatre, lectures and demonstrations, and documentaries. 25 accounts.
  • Baylor University Press - a publisher of academic e-books primarily in religious studies and the humanities. 50 accounts.
  • Future Science Group - a publisher of medical, biotechnological and scientific research. 30 accounts.
  • Annual Reviews - a publisher of review articles in the biomedical sciences. 100 accounts.
  • Miramar Ship Index - an index to ships and their histories since the early 19th century. 30 accounts.

Non-English

  • Noormags - Farsi-language aggregator of academic and professional journals and magazines. 30 accounts.
  • Kotobna - Arabic-language ebook publishing platform. 20 accounts.

Expansions

  • Gale - aggregator of newspapers, magazines and journals. 50 accounts.
  • Elsevier ScienceDirect - an academic publishing company that publishes medical and scientific literature. 100 accounts.

Many other partnerships with accounts available are listed on our partners page, including Project MUSE, De Gruyter, EBSCO, Newspapers.com and British Newspaper Archive. Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects: sign up today!
--The Wikipedia Library Team 20:30, 17 Martii 2016 (UTC)


You can host and coordinate signups for a Wikipedia Library branch in your own language. Please contact Ocaasi (WMF).
This message was delivered via the Global Mass Message tool to The Wikipedia Library Global Delivery List.

Tech News: 2016-12[fontem recensere]

16:04, 21 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Hi, a minor correction: The MediaWiki deployment dates are March 22–24, not 21–23. My apologies. /Johan (WMF) (disputatio) 08:15, 22 Martii 2016 (UTC)

De macronibus vel apicibus[fontem recensere]

Licetne eis uti? --Excelsius (disputatio) 16:56, 21 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Hic utimur causá discretivá tantum -- quando difficile erit, apicibus omissis, sensum adprehendere. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:42, 21 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-13[fontem recensere]

19:43, 28 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Open Call for Individual Engagement Grants[fontem recensere]

IEG barnstar 2.png

Please help translate to your language:

Greetings! The Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) program is accepting proposals until April 12th to fund new tools, research, outreach efforts, and other experiments that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers. Whether you need a small or large amount of funds (up to $30,000 USD), IEGs can support you and your team’s project development time in addition to project expenses such as materials, travel, and rental space.

With thanks, I JethroBT (WMF) 15:47, 31 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-14[fontem recensere]

22:13, 4 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-15[fontem recensere]

20:43, 11 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Pagina Psychopharmacologiae[fontem recensere]

In capitulo de substantiis adhuc duae substantiae nominantur. Sed vero alia genera existunt.

Quod Latine dicitur? 1) Medicamentum depressionum

  = medicamentum antidepressivum? 
  = medicamentum antidepressorium? 
  = antidepressivum? 
  = antidepressorium? 

2) Medicamentum schizophreniarum

  = medicamentum antipsychoticum? 
  = antipsychoticum? 

Gratias ago. Andreas Raether (Disputatio) 13:15, 13 Aprilis 2016‎.

Nomina cum et sine medicamento haud multum differunt: medicamentum antipsychoticum est forma plena, antipsychoticum forma brevis. De vocabulo antidepressant/antidépresseur/Antidepressivum, fontem nondum habemus. Equidem vocabulo quod est (medicamentum) antidepressivum faveo, quia hoc iam in forma (pseudo-)Latina in sermone Theodisco reperitur. Sed fortasse aliquis fontem externum invenire potest. Lesgles (disputatio) 18:46, 13 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
Secundum Parvum Verborum Novatorum lexicum (Civitas Vaticana) verbum depressione (Italice) = animi imminutio. --Maria.martelli (disputatio) 18:13, 14 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Misspelling?[fontem recensere]

Another example of typographic leveling through rejection of proper-noun capitalization. Vicipaedia formerly had this distinction:

grex Protestantium 'a group of Protestants'
grex protestantium 'a group of protesters'

But the first spelling is apparently to be avoided, in preference to the second, which will serve for all senses: the triumph of lumping over splitting? Hooray for polysemy, ambiguity, and confusion? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:32, 16 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

I see your point. In print, I'm a stickler for exactly this kind of detail. This environment is different, I think. On the one hand, we have contributors who have written with many different styles, and we are using a language that has been printed in many different styles. To include all of us we have to accept some variation of style. On the other hand we have what isn't available in print: the possibility to eliminate such ambiguity by judicious linking.
we should admit, too, that the classic form of our language was written without capitalization and practically without punctuation. Good Latin somehow made itself clear without any of that .... And without the hotlinks too, I don't see any hotlinks on Pompeiian graffiti ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:28, 19 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Server switch 2016[fontem recensere]

The Wikimedia Foundation will be testing its newest data center in Dallas. This will make sure Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster. To make sure everything is working, the Wikimedia Technology department needs to conduct a planned test. This test will show whether they can reliably switch from one data center to the other. It requires many teams to prepare for the test and to be available to fix any unexpected problems.

They will switch all traffic to the new data center on Tuesday, 19 April.
On Thursday, 21 April, they will switch back to the primary data center.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop during those two switches. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.

  • You will not be able to edit for approximately 15 to 30 minutes on Tuesday, 19 April and Thursday, 21 April, starting at 14:00 UTC (15:00 BST, 16:00 CEST, 10:00 EDT, 07:00 PDT).

If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it. If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal. Then you should be able to save your edit. But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

Other effects:

  • Background jobs will be slower and some may be dropped.

Red links might not be updated as quickly as normal. If you create an article that is already linked somewhere else, the link will stay red longer than usual. Some long-running scripts will have to be stopped.

  • There will be a code freeze for the week of 18 April.

No non-essential code deployments will take place.

This test was originally planned to take place on March 22. April 19th and 21st are the new dates. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. They will post any changes on that schedule. There will be more notifications about this. Please share this information with your community. /User:Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:08, 17 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Utrum Terrassa an Egara?[fontem recensere]

Novus sum in Vicipaedia. Volebam incipere a pagina oppidi ubi nunc habito, sed ante rogare volo quam aliquid mutem. Primum: Nomen Romanum Terrrassae Egara est, nonne melius esset nomen paginae mutare? Alterum: Ego dixerim municipium pro communi.--Usor:Xaverius Germanicus

Salve Xavierio, grati te accipimus hic. Melius ponas formulam {{Movenda|novam lemma tuam}}. Verificanda est nempe ex fontibus. Etiam pone si tibi placeat haec signa---~~~~ vel quaternam bullam/botonem preme supra quadrum ex medio post nuntium tuum. ---Jondel (disputatio) 18:40, 18 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-16[fontem recensere]

20:40, 18 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia to the Moon[fontem recensere]

Hello! Sorry that this is in English only, but we are using village pump messaging in order to reach as many language communities as possible. Wrong page? Please fix it here.

This is an invitation to all Wikipedians: Wikimedia Deutschland has been given data space to include Wikipedia content in an upcoming mission to the Moon. (No joke!) We have launched a community discussion about how to do that, because we feel that this is for the global community of editors. Please, join the discussion on Meta-Wiki (and translate this invitation to your language community)! Best, Moon team at Wikimedia Deutschland 15:35, 21 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-17[fontem recensere]

21:02, 25 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-18[fontem recensere]

20:09, 2 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Updating list of Wikipedias[fontem recensere]

Salve: I spent some time this morning updating Vicipaedia:Linguis aliis. Updating the categories (and moving wikis between categories) wasn't all that difficult. But I also spent some time adding Latin names, and adding links to articles on lawiki where appropriate. Since my Latin skills are not really so good, I'm presenting the diff here so that people who are better at this than I am can make sure it got done correctly. Just a couple of notes on this:

  • The order in the first two sections is by decreasing number of pages.
  • The order in the remaining sections is alphabetically ascending by language code.
  • I sometimes added a Latin name without a link if that seemed most appropriate
  • Filling these things in by educated guesswork got a lot harder as I got deeper into the list.

Thanks to all for your contributions. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 19:49, 4 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Ligatures (or lack thereof)[fontem recensere]

Please excuse the English; I speak not Latin.
Why are Latin ligatures (æ/œ) not used in this Wikipedia? Surely contributors care to essay linguistic fidelity, and the main page's initial incarnation them featured.
I am but curious; I criticise not.
Thank you. 164.68.24.108 02:05, 8 Maii 2016 (UTC)

If you wish to see ligatures, go to your homepage in Vicipaedia, click "Modi," click "Gadgets," check "Ligaturas monstrare (æ, œ)," and save this change. On your screen, all combinations of a + e and o + e will then become ligatures. ¶ Ligatures are a kind of typographical decoration and have nothing to do with "linguistic fidelity," whatever that might be. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 03:13, 8 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Kindly note that it wasn't part of classical latin as well.--Jondel (disputatio) 04:05, 8 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Other reasons apart, it is easier for contributors to contribute using the basic standard of 26 letters of the alphabet. If we all do this, then fortunately, as Iacobus explains, those who wish to see ligatures can choose to see them. Everyone can be happy!
Just in case contributing to Vicipaedia would make you happy, there are many things a contributor who does not speak Latin can do: adding useful references and external links, making necessary internal links, finding better images, verifying facts, making useful templates ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:37, 8 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Here's a question, though: is there a way (template?) for someone generally wanting to see them (as I do) to inhibit them in particular spots where there is a true hiatus? For example, I've generally written "Israel" here with a diaeresis (as "Israël"), but that's really more of a modern approach than a classic approach, I think. I don't mind using the diacritic, but I'm wondering if someone may have created a template along these lines. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 21:02, 9 Maii 2016 (UTC)
It's a good question. Personally I prefer the fewest possible templates-for-formatting in text, for exactly the same reason I just gave -- it is easier for people to edit (and also to read the edit screen) without them. The French wiki has a lot of templates-for-formatting, making it, in my experience, more difficult to edit. But others may not see this as a problem.
No one now writes Latin the way the Romans did [in terms of font, case, punctuation, etc]. Casual questioners don't always realise this, but all orthographic options that anyone now chooses are chosen from among the styles that have been in fashion recently, I mean, in the last 500 years :-). Fortunately, Latin has seen rather little change in printed style (compared with most other languages) since about 1500. But it's true that the relatively frequent or infrequent use of diaereses and accents has varied over that time. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:00, 10 Maii 2016 (UTC)
The ligature gadget doesn't affect words that have diaereses; I imagine it would be possible to change it to remove the diaereses entirely, since with ligatures they are no longer necessary (but this might also create false positives with German umlauts, etc.). Or maybe it could draw on a list of the most common words with hiatus, since there aren't too many. Of course I don't know how to do this technically. Lesgles (disputatio) 19:30, 10 Maii 2016 (UTC)
The process is universal, so, for example, the English word toes (if it's used in a text) appears as tœs. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:44, 10 Maii 2016 (UTC)
OK, you can design a way round that. You can mark up all foreign text with a template defining its language. Some wikis attempt to do that. But we quote far more foreign words and book titles than most other wikis -- we rather assume that Latinists are multilingual -- so we'd need an awful lot of those templates. I still say formatting templates are a nuisance for ordinary editors, and the fact that we can do a thing doesn't mean we should. When people read a Latin text in some other medium (e.g. print, or another Latin website) they get used to varying orthographical styles within seconds -- the variation is really very slight. It makes more sense to be happy that there is a rapidly improving Latin encyclopaedia than to insist its editors spend their time on formatting tricks. That's what I think :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:57, 11 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Or what about a gadget to display the text in uncial letters with en:scriptio continua? :) Lesgles (disputatio) 19:31, 10 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-19[fontem recensere]

23:22, 9 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Stadia Olympica Aestiva[fontem recensere]

E.g. Stadium Nationale Pecinense. We have articles on almost all of them, linked by a navbox, but almost all are short, uninformative, lacking a source. It appears an external source could easily be added (e.g. this) but no one has yet shown enthusiasm for expanding the articles. So, should we

  1. delete all those that are non stipulae
  2. convert them into a list
  3. accept them as a defined series of short articles (adding to each, at least, an external source, the one I suggest or a better one)

I think the argument for choosing (3) is that they are likely to go on being linked to, as the places where athletes broke records, were disqualified, etc. What do others think? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:13, 13 Maii 2016 (UTC)

I'd vote for (2), redirecting them all to one list (at least the ones that are still non stipulae). Then if any stadiam enthusiasts come along in the future, they could expand on whatever they're interested in. Lesgles (disputatio) 23:39, 13 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Nemine contradicente, duas paginas meliores in stipulas conversi; alias, exiguas, fere inutiles, Latinitate dubia, in enumerationem redirexi. Quam enumerationem augere volo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:40, 17 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-20[fontem recensere]

16:01, 16 Maii 2016 (UTC)

despectus in ...?[fontem recensere]

Sub imaginibus et urbium et regionum saepius legitur despectus in urbe ect. Quod emendandum puto esse, sed non emendo. Fortasse enim alicui vestrum testimonia huius usus casus ablativi nota sunt. Ego quidem solum despectus in aliquid (e.g. apud Caesarem et Lucretium) novi. Quid vos censetis? --Bavarese (disputatio) 12:16, 18 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Hoc exemplum inveni: despectus ex oppido in campum. --Maria.martelli (disputatio) 18:06, 18 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Recte dicis, Bavarese! Despectus in accusativo construitur, et quidem poscit, ut locus in imagine monstratus videnti paululum inferior appareat. Ipse raptim sciscitatus tria documenta constructionis "despectus in ruri" repperi, ac tria "despectus in rure", quae omnia corrigenda sunt. Neander (disputatio) 19:47, 18 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Ita, Lewis et Short dicunt sub "despectu": "a view or prospect from an elevated place"; hic saepe vidi photographemata "despectuum" qui non a loco elevato capta videntur. Praeterea, ut Iacobus alibi dixit, saepe possumus descriptionem subtiliorem invenire et, exempli gratia, mutare "despectus in urbem" ad "Ecclesiae Sanctae Mariae," "Platea Rerum Novarum," etc. Lesgles (disputatio) 20:23, 18 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-21[fontem recensere]

18:40, 23 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Num oportet omnes subscriptiones puncto concludere?[fontem recensere]

In finibus subscriptionum imaginum saepentissime punctum invenio, etiamsi sententiae non sunt. Ego illuc punctum solum pono, si subscriptio sententia est, nec alias. Nonnumquam autem subscriptiones meae puncto carentes ab aliis Vicipaedianis puncto suppletae sunt. Qualis est regula valida? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 23:23, 25 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Regulae, quas sequor ego, eaedem sunt, quas tu! Ergo puncta sententiis verbo indicativo munitis addo, non aliis. Iacobus solus (nisi fallor) puncta aliis locis addit. Quas regulas sequitur? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:35, 26 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Quippe ita bonus mos sit cum puncto subscriptionem concludere. Ego semper conor concludere cum puncto sine lapsu.--Jondel (disputatio) 06:59, 4 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Administrator rights[fontem recensere]

Hello everyone, I want to make the point that this two administrators, BiT and Mycēs, are no longer active on the la Wiktionary. So therefore I want to recive administrator rights to keep this project alive. I currently contribute for the Dutch and German wiktionary's, but I want to learn the latin and don't see a better place then the dictionary it's self. -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 14:41, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)

That is an interesting point. We are friendly with Wiktionary but the projects are independent. However, the user named Usor:Alex1011 is active on both projects, I think. Have you discussed the administrator question with him? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:52, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Ow, is he also an administrator? Cause he is not on the list. Btw he is inactive since 9 sept. 2011. I and Usoris:YaganZ are for now the only users there and want to keep this project alive. I don't know if both of us can be given the rights. -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 15:24, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)
I thought Alex was an admin at Wiktionary, but I could be wrong. He has been active here in the last few days. You could leave a message on his talk page here, Disputatio Usoris:Alex1011. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:25, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)
According to wikt:Specialis:Usores/sysop, the only current administratior is wikt:Usor:Muke, who has been inactive for 2.5 years. It looks like the procedure is to build a consensus on the Latin Wiktionary with the other active users, and then make a request at meta:Steward requests/Permissions#Administrator access. Lesgles (disputatio) 18:01, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)
We're discussing some topics on Victionarium:Taberna, but for some of them we shall need MediaWiki:Common.css and .js just like the other dictionaries. Those pages are protected. As of today we are working on a nice and clean project. But that means a lot needs to change. Do we have to make those requests? -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 18:24, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I haven't done it before, but I think the folks at meta should be able to help you out. Lesgles (disputatio) 20:46, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Header for purposes of attention: Administrator votes on Victionarium[fontem recensere]

Usor:DenisWasRight and Usor:YaganZ are willing to help as administrators on Victionarium, which can use the extra hands. There is an election on Victionarium that you can participate in: StevenJ81 (disputatio) 11:34, 1 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

You can vote for us here and here. Anonymous users are not allowed to vote. -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 10:27, 31 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Discussion continues[fontem recensere]

I am a user, but not an administrator on victionarium. --Alex1011 (disputatio) 19:28, 31 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Last active 30 decembris 2015. --Alex1011 (disputatio) 19:30, 31 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Alex, my mistake. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:37, 31 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Andrew, neither you nor I have made a large number of contributions to Victionarium, so I don't know how the stewards will react to our votes. And Dennis, in particular, hasn't been around Victionarium very long. What I suggested there in both cases was a 3–6 month trial to see how things were working out, with further status to follow. That's almost certainly what the stewards would do anyway. Denis and Yagan, don't take that as a lack of confidence in you at all, only as the ordinary precaution that we usually take around here in cases like this. If your temporary term works out, you're likely to get a one-year temporary term after that, and if you're still active either ongoing one-year terms or permanent status, depending on how active you can make the community. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:21, 31 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Steven, I know nothing of such elections except right here on Vicipaedia (where they are quite informal) and I don't really want to :) My observation, though, is that Victionarium needs willing hands and hasn't got any. So far as I know, the last attempted human communication with Myces/Muke on Victionarium was my message to him, about some vandalism that needed stopping, in 2011. There was no reply, and no one else to contact. I see no other way to improve the situation than this. Let the stewards react as they will! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:34, 31 Maii 2016 (UTC)
Oh, I absolutely agree. I just note what the likely outcomes from the stewards will be. I'm sure, on the other hand, that they will hear any pleas we make as the most active Latin project. (Though, at that, maybe we should go over to Vicifons and encourage their support, too?) StevenJ81 (disputatio) 11:30, 1 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I went today to buy an Latin-Dutch dictionary but couldn't find anything useful. I guess I need to by it from the net. Once I learn the language I can contribute also here. But for now I'm working only for the dictionary. -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 12:35, 1 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

(outdent) As a follow-up, I just posted notices on the Taberna-equivalent pages of Latin Wikisource, Wikibooks and Wikiquote. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 12:40, 1 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

I no longer want to be an administrator at the Victionariom. I've completly waist my time to contribute with people that thinks the Victionarium is their own and saying to me to "stay away from the Discretiva pages and the associated templates, cause I'm creating garbage all over the Victionarium, while I'm working until 1 to 2 o'clock in the morning to produce things like this, which the Wiktionary never has before. I also don't want to work with people (YaganZ) that can't understand what's the dictionary all about and never watch the other wiktionaries what they have to offer and keep creating pages like this and not like this. I'm sorry but the first one isn't saying much about the word. -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 18:16, 4 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I agree. I think it's not desirable that basic templates, which are included in hundreds of pages, be changed without consensus and without taking into consideration the side-effects of such a modification. I asked DenisWasRight to stop this activities before a severe damage would occur. --YaganZ (disputatio) 18:54, 4 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Lol, I was testing things to see how things will look after we write an Bot to change the old model. Haven't I discussed even the small detail with you on the Taberna? You didn't even wait to finish the test and disrespected me while I was the one who offerd you my help, cause I saw you creating useless things (mostly templates etc.). You may carry on with adding empty templates in hunderd of pages or sections that wouldn't make any sens. -- DenisWasRight (disputatio) 19:12, 4 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I refuse further discussions on that level. Victionarium is a community driven project, where no contributor would waist his or her time making useless edits. If you don't understand what's going on, please educate yourself — punctum. --YaganZ (disputatio) 10:56, 6 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-22[fontem recensere]

16:18, 30 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Request for a couple of quick phrases[fontem recensere]

I plan to add a Latin translation to the Meta userpage template. I am planning to base that on the userpage template we have here, so I just need some help making sure the two phrases I need to change are translated correctly. So:

Haec est pagina usoris Vicipaediae Latinae [a Wikimedia global user page]. Si extra Vicipaediam [a Wikimedia project] repperisti, situm reflectivum paginamque exanimatam vides cuius auctor nihil cum situ isto habeat. Paginam veram recentissimamque hic perlegere potes: [link to an address on meta, rather than lawiki].

Thank you for your help! StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:15, 1 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

ad 2.: extra incepto Vicimediorum (→Vicicitatio)
Andreas Raether (disputatio) 12:23, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I'm thinking #1 is:
pagina usoris globalis Vicimediae
unless someone says differently. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 18:13, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
That should be "pagina usoris globalis Vicimediorum" (genitive plural of medium) and "extra inceptum Vicimediorum" (extra takes the accusative). Lesgles (disputatio) 19:18, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I guess that while "media" is now arguably singular (sometimes) in English, it's still always plural in Latin! Wink(16px).svg StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:57, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Curiously, that exact change can be seen in certain Latin words in later Romance languages: speakers reinterpreted a final -a, neuter plural, as feminine singular. But, like most other recent Latinists, we're aiming to write a normalizing Latin that looks back to the classical standard, so let's not go that way :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:17, 6 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Media is always plural the English-language conversation of someone you know. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:05, 6 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Done. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 21:04, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Gotthard Base Tunnel[fontem recensere]

Latinum verbum componere velim.

Nunc, Gotthard Base Tunnel = italice Galleria di base del San Gottardo

  • Mons Sancti Gothardi Cuniculus Submontanus ? → Cuniculus (aedificium)
  • Mons Sancti Gothardi Cuniculus basalis (.. non aptus, opinor)
  • Mons Sancti Gothardi Cuniculus Secundus ? (quia vetus cuniculus habet)
  • M.S.G. inframontanus ?
  • ...?

Valde gratias ago

The whole phrase in English has a recent feel, so not enough time may have elapsed for a reliable Latin rendering of it to have developed. Note that this tunnel is an example of a base tunnel, so you need to translate that phrase first, and then you can add at the end something for Gotthard to round it out. If base is referring to the foot of the mountain, then that's the mountain's radix, and cuniculus radicalis is conceivable (though radicalis is postclassical). Classical Latin basis designated the groundwork of a column and had tropes relating to foundation-wall of a villa, the base of a triangle, the chord of an arc, the track of cattle, and apparently nothing else (see L&S), and basalis & basicus are apparently nonclassical too. From fundamentum, an adjective fundamentalis no doubt eventually came into being, though (apud L&S) it's nonclassical. Altogether, maybe the syntax of Cuniculus radicalis Gothardianus and Cuniculus fundamentalis Gothardianus will give you ideas. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:41, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I've done some travelling in this region but I've never heard of a "base tunnel". But clearly you have it right, Iacobe, and I agree that "radix" is the word that comes to mind, already used by Cato "sub radice montis", Caesar and Cicero for the foot or base of a mountain. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:52, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Someone you know crossed the Gotthard Pass in 1967 but also never heard of a "base tunnel"—in part, presumably, because none had been built there yet; but still. . . . As indicated, the term "has a recent feel." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:14, 6 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Gratias ago, Iacobe et Andrew. Itaque Cuniculo radicali et Cuniculo radicali Gothardiano et Cervesia radicali radicaliter utar. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 16:08, 5 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-23[fontem recensere]

20:51, 6 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Interface en anglais[fontem recensere]

Bonjour,
J'ai cherché un Bistro des non-latinophones et, ne l'ayant pas trouvé, je m'excuse d'écrire ici ma remarque en français (je ne suis pas capable d'écrire en latin ; ceci dit je suis étonné de constater que la plupart des discussions paraissent ne pas être menées en latin... :-( Les discussions sur la Wikipédia en latin devraient être menées en latin, non ?).
Il me semble que des morceaux de l'interface n'ont pas encore été traduits en latin : je viens d'être accueilli par un : Welcome to Vicipaedia Anyone can edit, and every improvement helps. Thank you for helping the world discover more!, et en bas de cette page : https://la.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Specialis:Nuper_mutata&from=20160607002059&days=30&limit=500 on trouve un : No changes during the given period matching these criteria.
Je vous signale donc ces oublis afin que vous les corrigiez si vous le souhaitez 78.250.230.63 00:37, 7 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Bonjour, anonyme, et soyez le bienvenu. Nous disputons entre nous en plusieures langues, non seulement le Latin. Quant aux traductions, merci de nous les signaler. On corrige au TranslateWiki, et quelqu'un le fera éventuellement. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 07:40, 7 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Salve Anonymo, quamquam hic scribam, non confido scribere in disputatione. Etiam, forte, ille qui latinam studeat, alias linguas amet. (id est, hic multas linguas videre potes tu)Te exhortor in studendo latinam. --Jondel (disputatio) 13:51, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia to the Moon: voting has begun[fontem recensere]

Hello, after six weeks of community discussion about Wikipedia to the Moon, there are now 10 different proposals for content for the mission. Starting today, you can vote for them on Meta-Wiki, and decide what we will work on: a Wikipedia canon, different lists, the Moon in 300 languages, an astronomy editathon, featured articles, articles about technology, endangered things, or DNA-related topics. You can even vote against community involvement. Voting is open until 24 June. Sorry that this message is again in English only, but we are using village pumps to reach as many communities as possible, so that everyone knows they can vote. Best, Moon team at Wikimedia Deutschland 15:31, 10 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Quaestio casus grammatici[fontem recensere]

Hello, I want to create categories at Victionarium, that list pages with pronunciation examples. I thought of something like

  • Categoria:Exempla appellationis Latinae (genitivus qualitatis) or
  • Categoria:Exempla appellatione Latina (ablativus qualitatis).

I'm not sure which case is appropriate, genitive or ablative, or something else? I'm looking forward to some advice from users with better Latin knowledge than me. Gratias ago, --YaganZ (disputatio) 18:38, 11 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

The word that we sometimes use is "pronuntiatus -us" (4th declension masculine), but it's hardly a classical word. I'd go for the genitive, so I tentatively suggest "Exempla pronuntiatus Latini". Wait and see whether someone else has a better idea. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:15, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I'd go for the genitive too, but I don't see why Exempla appellationis Latinae wouldn't do. Even Cicero uses this noun for 'pronunciation'. Am I missing something? Neander (disputatio) 10:24, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
No, it's fine. I felt that because "appellatio" has other meanings too, the reader might not understand that "pronunciation" is intended. But no doubt I needn't have worried. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:35, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your advice. I'll take the genitive then.
I noticed that Vicipaedia is using "pronuntiatus" (u-declension) preferably. My dictionaries only show "pronuntiatus, -a, -um" as participle perfect passive of "pronuntio", but I found the term "pronuntiatus restitutus" on the Web.
At Victionarium the section that provides pronunciation information is called "Appellatio", so the category should have a similar name. I'm aware that "appellatio" has more than one meaning (but which Latin word does not have). Using the full term "appellatio litterarum" would be clearer, but I want to keep it simple. --YaganZ (disputatio) 11:03, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with Neander that your first suggestion "Categoria:Exempla appellationis Latinae" is fine. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:16, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Gratias ago, --YaganZ (disputatio) 12:09, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Orlando Floridae[fontem recensere]

Habemus Latinum urbis Orlando nomen? Vide "Impetus Orlando Iunio 2016 factus‎‎," commentarium novum. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:36, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Adiectivum "Orlandensis" habes. Substantivum non reperio. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:06, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Foreign languages in articles in progress[fontem recensere]

Shouldn't pages still being worked on by their original authors (and not yet released for public editing) at least be mostly in Latin? Cases in point: Cultura Romae antiquae and Oeconomia Romae antiquae. The non-Latin text could be temporarily hidden (while the work is going on), or it could be kept in a user's sandbox or other private space, online or off. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:27, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

I hadn't looked at these pages. I think the good solution is to make them into user subpages (or to use one's sandbox, as I think Maria Martelli does) until they become acceptable Latin encyclopedia pages. (Hidden text on encyclopedia pages has to be kept to a minimum because it gets in the way of editors who want to improve the page, especially if they don't know the language concerned.) Since these two pages are so large and so English/French, I'll move them into Katxis's workspace now and explain to Katxis. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:45, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Good. I use a sandbox almost daily, but usually save texts offline. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:51, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-24[fontem recensere]

18:41, 13 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-25[fontem recensere]

19:14, 20 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Declinatio nominum objectorum astronomicorum[fontem recensere]

Hello everybody,
How are we supposed to decline the name of astronomical objects (and, at the same time, of the entity from which they are named) when they don't come from Greco-Latin mythology? I am supposing that most of the time there is not much literature in Latin to help us. Should we use "what seems to be logic"? E.g., Quaoar, Quaoaris ? Sedna, ae ? Haumea, ae ? what about Makemake ? etc. At least, each time that one declination is "officially" attested, it should be indicated in the corresponding page. The same should be done concerning the gender, by the way. E.g. we have "Pluto (-onis, m.)", but for example we don't have it for Charon ("Charon (-ontis, m.)") and many others.
Thank you all in advance for your help.
SenseiAC (disputatio) 11:48, 22 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Andrew Dalby, an idea? (tell me if you know people who know better about this topic.) SenseiAC (disputatio) 11:57, 22 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
I think this is an important question for us. It can apply to place-names as well as astronomical names. (But, as you know, many astronomical names really are Latin, from "Mare Imbrium" to "Sirius", and we obviously treat them as Latin.)
I'm sure that others will add their views too! Speaking just about my own editing, I make a distinction between the first sentence of an article and the article text.
In the first sentence I think it very important for us to give the exact facts about Latin names, based on Latin sources. If a name is not known to be Latin (like Makemake and Sedna) I would remove any indication of declension and gender. Foreign names can be treated as foreign and indeclinable in Latin -- there's plenty of support for that practice in reliable Latin sources, and it is the most helpful thing for readers.
In the text, if a previous editor has treated a word as Latin (e.g. writing "Sednae" for a genitive) I do not see the need to change it. That's OK in Latin too, and even the inconsistency is OK! But if I am rewriting the whole text anyway, I would not do it that way myself: I would write [e.g.] "planetulae Sedna" for the genitive. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:10, 22 Iunii 2016 (UTC)
Num astrorum nomina barbara declinentur, iam dudum definitum est. Nam maxima pars stellarum nomina ab Arabis accepta ad hunc diem tenet. Quae indeclinabilia habentur, ut patet plurimis ex exemplis, si "per Aldebaran" vel "cum Aldebaran" quaeri iubeas. E.g. vide huc, ubi "Azimech" loco diversorum casuum habes! Laurentianus (disputatio) 08:40, 27 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Pagina deleta[fontem recensere]

Pagina Antonius Banderas deleta est (prex "Pater Noster" Graecae transscripta et nomina imaginaria) --Ben4Wiki (disputatio) 15:20, 24 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Non deleta sed vandalizata. Gratias tibi ago: correxi. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:29, 24 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-26[fontem recensere]

15:42, 27 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Compact Links coming soon to this wiki[fontem recensere]

Please help translate to your language

Screenshot of Compact Language Links interlanguage list

Hello, I wanted to give a heads up about an upcoming feature for this wiki which you may seen already in Tech News. Compact Language Links has been available as a beta-feature on all Wikimedia wikis since 2014. With compact language links enabled, users are shown a much shorter list of languages on the interlanguage link section of an article (see image). This will be enabled as a feature in the coming week for all users, which can be turned on or off using a preference setting. We look forward to your feedback and please do let us know if you have any questions. Details about Compact Language Links can be read in the project documentation.

Due to the large scale enablement of this feature, we have had to use MassMessage for this message and as a result it is only written in English. We will really appreciate if this message can be translated for other users of this wiki. The main announcement can also be translated on this page. Thank you. On behalf of the Wikimedia Language team: Runa Bhattacharjee (WMF) (talk)-12:57, 1 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia to the Moon: invitation to edit[fontem recensere]

Three weeks ago, you were invited to vote on how to take Wikipedia articles to the Moon. Community voting is over and the winning idea is to send all ‘’featured articles and lists’’ to the Moon. This decision means that, starting today, Wikipedians from all language communities are warmly invited to intensively work on their best articles and lists, and submit them to Wikipedia to the Moon. The central site to coordinate between communities will be Meta-Wiki. You will find an overview and more information there. Hopefully, we will be able to represent as many languages as possible, to show Wikipedia’s diversity. Please feel kindly invited to edit on behalf of your community and tell us about your work on featured content!

Best, Moon team at Wikimedia Deutschland 14:10, 1 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Editing News #2—2016[fontem recensere]

m:User:Elitre (WMF), 17:20, 3 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-27[fontem recensere]

19:45, 4 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Open call for Project Grants[fontem recensere]

IEG barnstar 2.png

Please help translate to your language:

Greetings! The Project Grants program is accepting proposals from July 1st to August 2nd to fund new tools, research, offline outreach (including editathon series, workshops, etc), online organizing (including contests), and other experiments that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers.
Whether you need a small or large amount of funds, Project Grants can support you and your team’s project development time in addition to project expenses such as materials, travel, and rental space.
Also accepting candidates to join the Project Grants Committee through July 15.
With thanks, I JethroBT (WMF) 15:25, 5 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Compact Language Links enabled in this wiki today[fontem recensere]

Please help translate to your language

Screenshot of Compact Language Links interlanguage list

Compact Language Links has been available as a beta-feature on all Wikimedia wikis since 2014. With compact language links enabled, users are shown a much shorter list of languages on the interlanguage link section of an article (see image). Based on several factors, this shorter list of languages is expected to be more relevant for them and valuable for finding similar content in a language known to them. More information about compact language links can be found in the documentation.

From today onwards, compact language links has been enabled as the default listing of interlanguage links on this wiki. However, using the button at the bottom, you will be able to see a longer list of all the languages the article has been written in. The setting for this compact list can be changed by using the checkbox under User Preferences -> Appearance -> Languages

The compact language links feature has been tested extensively by the Wikimedia Language team, which developed it. However, in case there are any problems or other feedback please let us know on the project talk page. It is to be noted that on some wikis the presence of an existing older gadget that was used for a similar purpose may cause an interference for compact language list. We would like to bring this to the attention of the admins of this wiki. Full details are on this phabricator ticket (in English).

Due to the large scale enablement of this feature, we have had to use MassMessage for this announcement and as a result it is only written in English. We will really appreciate if this message can be translated for other users of this wiki. Thank you. On behalf of the Wikimedia Language team: Runa Bhattacharjee (WMF) (talk)-03:03, 8 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

De formulis etiam in Vicipaedia Latina adoptandis[fontem recensere]

Cunctis salutem. De otio Latinos articulos redigendi reversus nonnullas suadeo mutationes exsequendas esse atque evolvendas, quae incrementum Vicipaedia serviat. Adoptentur enim oportet infocapsae non solum ad nationem oppidumve verum etiam ad personas (v.g. functionarios politicos) spectantes, ut aliae iamdudum Vicipaediae id solverant. --Martinus Vester (disputatio) 16:47, 9 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Salve, Martine! Habemus formulam {{Capsa hominis Vicidata}}. Melius erit vitam hominum non perbreviter in infocapsis, sed in textu commentationis describere (vide etiam Disputatio Usoris:Katxis#Infoboxes). Fortasse mox omnes Vicipaediae infocapsas communes habebunt, vide meta:2015 Community Wishlist Survey > "Central global repository for templates, gadgets and Lua modules", et > "Make it easy to build infoboxes that display information from wikidata". --UV (disputatio) 13:17, 10 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-28[fontem recensere]

15:14, 11 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

New British PM[fontem recensere]

Crystal 128 up.png Commentatio principalis: Theresa May

I've started to put some infrastructure into place, tried to update some templates, and so forth. But my Latin writing skills are nowhere near good enough to update body text on any of the ministers, outgoing, incoming, or otherwise. Assistance welcome. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 18:33, 13 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Update at 17:14, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)[fontem recensere]

It looks like the cabinet-level appointments have now all been made. The template {{Consilium Britannicum May}} is up to date, and has been included on all of the cabinet secretaries' pages that currently exist. Let me point out again that:

  • My Latin skills are rudimentary at best. All of the existing pages need to be updated to reflect current jobs, and many pages of members of David Cameron's cabinet need to be updated to reflect those changes, too. But that's not something I can do.
  • Similarly, a number of new pages are needed. I don't imagine that they will all be written, but a few of the posts (like Amber Rudd's at the Home Office) are senior enough to merit a page. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:14, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for all you have done! I have done some of the updating you suggest, but I haven't written any new pages (yet). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:59, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I do appreciate your pruning the rest of the names at the end there. I left them at first, figuring it would be easier than trying to figure out all of the Latin forms from scratch. But by the end ... (grin) StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:03, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
PS: You got them all ... except for the Cancellarius Scaccarii. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:12, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Amber Rudd is now blue (the appropriate colour for Conservatives). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 07:21, 17 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Odd how the Conservatives are blue there, but Democrats are blue here. You may still like to give the Rt. Hon. Philippus Hammond, MP, his new job. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 01:55, 18 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Corrigendum correctum![fontem recensere]

Categoria [[Categoria:Imago sine descriptione]] nunc vacua est! Gaudeamus igitur. Ut omnes scimus (vel, spero nos omnes scire), imago apud nos descriptionem habeto, ut machinae computrales usorum caecorum clara voce descriptionem legere possint -- etiamsi descriptio in pagina non apparet. (Descriptio in [[Fasciculus:...]] fit "alt=" cum pagina in forma HTML fit.) Ex hoc die in perpetuum, esto nulla pagina hac in categoria! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:55, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Permultae imagines in commentariis de perparvis vicis Italicis formam habent "Imago vici X," cum accuratior forma sit "Ecclesia Sancti Iosephi vici X," aut "Forum medium vici X," aut alia—res haud melior quam "Imago sine descriptione." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:16, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Tecum consentio, et omnes, qui in talibus paginis laborabunt, adhortor ad descriptiones admeliorandas. Sunt etiam imagines sine descriptionibus quae formula carent, quae invenitae corrigendae. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:23, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

IMPORTANT: Admin activity review[fontem recensere]

Hello. A new policy regarding the removal of "advanced rights" (administrator, bureaucrat, etc) was adopted by global community consensus in 2013. According to this policy, the stewards are reviewing administrators' activity on smaller wikis. To the best of our knowledge, your wiki does not have a formal process for removing "advanced rights" from inactive accounts. This means that the stewards will take care of this according to the admin activity review.

We have determined that the following users meet the inactivity criteria (no edits and no log actions for more than 2 years):

  1. Mycēs (administrator)

These users will receive a notification soon, asking them to start a community discussion if they want to retain some or all of their rights. If the users do not respond, then their advanced rights will be removed by the stewards.

However, if you as a community would like to create your own activity review process superseding the global one, want to make another decision about these inactive rights holders, or already have a policy that we missed, then please notify the stewards on Meta-Wiki so that we know not to proceed with the rights review on your wiki. Thanks, Rschen7754 20:52, 16 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Well, we do have a policy (Vicipaedia:Magistratus#De magistratibus quiescentibus), but we seem to have not put it into practice at least for the past one-and-a-half years ... --UV (disputatio) 22:01, 24 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
That's true, and thanks for providing the link! Myces has been a very useful adviser, and I was hoping he would still show up sometimes, but I noticed recently that he has been absent from en:wiki and from la:wikt for about the same length of time.
So our policy could be applied. It provides that he'd be welcome to return whenever he wants. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:27, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I suggest that Andrew (probably better than the rest of us) contact the stewards to point out to them that we do, in fact, have a policy. (Its English-language translation is here: Vicipaedia:Magistratus/en#Inactive administrators.) My only question—and it's a question only—is whether this (or 12 months or 18 months) should be a mandatory deflagging for security purposes. I don't think that's terribly burdensome if the inactive admin is allowed to request his reflagging without a new vote. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 13:51, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
No better, but maybe nearly as good as anyone else :) OK, I'll tell them. In this case, they have already posted a notice on Myces' page. Since we hadn't reacted to Myces' absence, I can't see any reason why they shouldn't now continue their process. It won't prevent him getting his flag back if he reappears here and asks for it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:52, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Agree. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:33, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

De Sonubus in pagina prima[fontem recensere]

Ex anno 2004 Pagina Mensis in pagina prima apparet; ex anno 2013, imaginem et sonum mensuales habemus. Difficile est autem sonus bonos invenire. Velim igitur rogare utrum sonum mensis persistere oporteat: quid censetis? (De imaginibus et, certissime, de paginis mensualibus non disputo.) A. Mahoney (disputatio) 15:17, 18 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Aucune réponse? Ça vous est égal à vous tous? D'accord: je vais supprimer le "Son du mois" sur notre première page -- dès aujourd'hui.
No answers? Nobody cares? Fair enough: I'm taking "Sound of the Month" off the front page this afternoon. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:37, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Anne! The sounds of the month have been a really good thing, but I'm conscious that I hardly have time to help find more of them. In fact I (we) ought to start worrying about future "paginae mensium". Any suggestions under that heading? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:18, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I've proposed a few pages; we haven't done anything classical/Roman in a while, and there's also some good science/tech stuff we could use. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:41, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-29[fontem recensere]

20:18, 18 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

WikiCon IT[fontem recensere]

Salve a tutti! Scusate se scrivo in italiano. Con Jaqen e CristianNX ci è ci è venuta la pazza idea di organizzare una WikiConference italiana, su modello delle esperienze di altri paesi (ad es. quella tedesca). AlessioMela e altri si sono prontamente detti disponibili a dare una mano. Si tratterebbe, in breve, di una tre giorni (da venerdì alla domenica) di incontri fra utenti di Wikipedia e degli altri progetti Wikimedia. L'idea è di farla a Trento in primavera 2017. Abbiamo creato la pagina su Meta per chiedere finanziamenti a Wikimedia Foundation (l'idea è anche quella di coprire ai partecipanti vitto e alloggio, e a quanti possibile anche le spese di viaggio).
Al momento chiaramente è solo una bozza, ma è già possibile dare il proprio endorsement. Inoltre, per aiutarci a organizzare sarebbe importante avere un'idea di quanta gente potrebbe partecipare: se vi va potete farcelo sapere qui, nella talk su meta, via mail a me, ecc. So che senza nemmeno sapere quando sarà è difficile rispondere, ma ci basta anche un "forse parteciperò".
La sezione Partecipants su meta invece non è per chi semplicemente parteciperà, ma per chi dà una mano, e in effetti se avete voglia di dare una mano siete più che i benvenuti. Troveremo sicuramente qualcosa da farvi fare :)
Dite anche se avete idee sul programma (es. qualcosa di cui secondo voi bisognerebbe assolutamente parlare). Potete scriverlo qua, o direttamente a me. Chiaramente più avanti abbiamo intenzione di mettere in piedi un sistema meglio strutturato, ma intanto ci pare utile raccogliere idee.
In caso di qualunque dubbio, suggerimento, ecc. siamo a disposizione! --Yiyi (disputatio) 08:57, 20 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Vide etiam[fontem recensere]

Could one of our kind programmers devise & run a program that would change all the Vide etiam titles to Nexus interni titles. At least one of our authors is beginning to put items listed under Vide etiam into the accusative. If that's not nipped in the bud (so to speak), Vicipaedia will end up with competing sets of styles for linking to other articles within the project. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:30, 22 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Si id faciat, Vicipaedia:Structura paginae etiam commutator, quaeso. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 22:53, 22 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I can do this tomorrow, if no one else gets there first, and I'll adjust the "Structura paginae" text as well. The easiest, perhaps, would be to create a Formula that produces the "Nexus interni" section heading -- if we use that everywhere, then we can change the wording globally any time we want simply by editing that formula. An additional benefit would be that we can add a hidden category ("pages with Nexus Interni sections") from which we can determine which pages have a crude list of links -- since in principle that should be a place-holder for writing actual text that connects this article to those other ones. And that would be another pointer to Paginae Ameliorandae. What do folks think of this? -- let me know and I'll take it up when I'm at school tomorrow afternoon. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 14:00, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
A useful idea, I should think, as a list of pages lacking nexus interni could be helpful to have; however, if all the Vide etiams are changed, can the process be effected silently, the way programs remove superfluous interwiki links, without cluttering up the Nuper mutata with tens of thousands (!) of records? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:10, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
We should learn how to create those bots.--Jondel (disputatio) 14:44, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I also think the formula idea is good -- principally for the "additional benefit" that Anne mentions.
Not necessarily to be done at the same time, but let's bear in mind that we've been anything but consistent in the order of items at the foot of a page. The order now given in "Structura paginae" was agreed five years ago, but many pages are arranged in other ways. Consistency, if eventually attainable, would be no bad thing. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:06, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
If we either create a bot (better) or create the "flooder" (pseudobot) user group here (second best), we can get around the problem of cluttering up the Nuper mutata. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:14, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I do use a bot (AMahoney bot = me with my bot hat on). I don't know how other people do it -- and I can imagine better ways but I'm a bit lazy :-) -- but I'll just write a one-off program to do this, and have it log in under the bot's ID. If you can write code, you, too, can become a Vicipaedia bot! I use Perl and its Mediawiki packages, but one may use any programming language. Point is, changes made by a user with the bot flag are marked specially in Nuper Mutata, and are by default hidden. Now, as for order of items, that's a harder problem and I'm not proposing to work on that today. I'm just planning to create a new formula -- call it {{NexInt}} for example -- that puts the heading "Nexus interni" and adds the page to a new hidden category "pages with Nexus interni section." For the record, I'm assuming that the presence of a Nexus Interni section (or Vide Etiam or whatever it's called) is a bad thing: we're not looking for pages that lack these, to put them in, but for pages that have them, to turn those crude links into text. Am I right? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:31, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Just to confirm, yes, I think it's a very good idea. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:53, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
At this stage of the game, listing links to tangentially related articles is a useful (and hence good) thing. After a few million more articles have appeared and opportunities for linking have correspondingly increased, then it might be more of a neutral thing. Plenty of articles in the English wiki (still) have such links. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:02, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
They have, but it's a sign that they have some improving to do ... and we're at a far-less-developed stage. So, yes, we surely expect this exercise to present to us large numbers of "Nexus interni", and it's surely a long term aim to incorporate the deserving ones into article text. A good aim, though. A plain list of links doesn't tell a reader why each linked page is relevant. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:54, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Summarizing, then: we want to write "Nexus Interni" (or "Nexus interni" with minuscule?) rather than "Vide etiam," and we want to collect such pages into a hidden category for future reference. If that's correct, then I'll get on it. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 15:47, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
That's my understanding (with minuscule: Nexus interni). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:52, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
That sounds fine to me. It will require some manual cleanup with the pages that do have the accusative, unless the bot can parse Latin grammar! :) Lesgles (disputatio) 16:32, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Metagrammatical comment, plus suggestion. No dispute about how we're accomplishing this. In fact, it makes great sense to do it this way.
  • Who says that a list of pages after Vide etiam: can't be in nominative? Yes, in theory, any/all of the elements of the list are objects of the verb vide. Still, it's a list, not a sentence. So ... who says we'd need to decline the elements of the list as if they're really part of a sentence? It's not as if we need a declension to determine what the role of these is in the sentence.
  • Couldn't one just as easily have made a case for genitive? After all, we're not really "See[ing] also" the object itself, we're "see[ing] also" the page of the object. So arguably paginam is the true direct object in every case, taking a genitive specification afterwards.
All that said, then:
  • It makes sense to avoid the problem entirely by using Nexus interni.
  • We should probably make a policy that says "lists should be in nominative".
StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:15, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
There is indeed a lot of precedent for treating dictionary and encyclopedia lemmata as indeclinable. It is the rule in Hofmann: "Vide Dorcestria"; Forcellini: "Cacabulus, deminut. a cacabus, κακκάβιον, parvus cacabus"; and the Thesaurus Linguae Latinae: "vide etiam Annicia". As you say, with "vide etiam equus", we aren't asked to look at a horse, but an article about horses. For that reason I wasn't sure about this change; but in the end, I like the parallelism with "nexus externi". Lesgles (disputatio) 16:19, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I am now in process of replacing "vide etiam" with a new formula, and will then go on to "nexus interni." The formula is called "NexInt" and the corresponding category is "Paginae cum sectione nexuum internorum" (hidden, naturally, and under Corrigenda). I'm only doing the main namespace; we're on our own for Usor: pages and the like. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:28, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
There are a zillion of these. Many are fixed; I'll fire the bot up again when I'm here on Thursday. Meanwhile, feel free to put the new formula in by hand! See Duo for an example. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 20:43, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Awesome work!--Jondel (disputatio) 22:39, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Indeed, awesome work. Anne, at risk of seeming ungrateful (by suggesting one other piece of work): I agree that for most other page spaces (like Usor) we are (and should be) on our own. Maybe you (your bot) can have a look at Formula: and Vicipaedia: spaces, though. I doubt there are many examples there, but I consider them official enough that they deserve careful scrutiny. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:51, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I'm not ungrateful either -- quite the contrary. Now that it'll be so easy to locate them all, does it make sense for a bot to remove from among the nexus interni the items that are of no use, I mean: redlinks; links already duplicated in the text; hidden matter? And could a bot in fact do that? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:20, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
It isn't hard to do the same thing in other name spaces; I'll do so. I agree that some of them are official parts of Vicipaedia. As for checking the content of the NexInt section, I don't know. Maybe redlinks are do-able, and I suppose I can see how to check if a link in this section appears elsewhere. But we're talking about over 60,000 pages, and I expect it would take days. I'd defer this in favor of working on Latinity and other housekeeping that seems more useful. Still, worth keeping in mind. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 21:28, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, that makes good sense to me. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:20, 28 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Progress report: the new formula now appears on over 45,000 pages, but there are some 28,000 to go in the main name space, which will get done over the course of the next week. I'm working on the Vicipaedia and Formula name spaces manually since they're small -- about 150 "Vide etiam"s in VP, about 280 in Formula -- and possibly tricky: others who wish are welcome to help (or to adjust or correct what I change there). See below for an unexpected side effect, and if it's fixable, please do! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:46, 28 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Search problem?[fontem recensere]

So I'm managing this with a program that does a search for "Vide etiam" in pages, verifies that the phrase is actually a section heading ("== Vide etiam =="), and replaces it with the new formula. But starting yesterday, a search on that phrase turns up all sorts of pages where the phrase does not appear -- but used to! If you do the search, you'll find "Mercatus (Pars Vide etiam)," for example. But there is no such heading in that page: it's already been replaced by the new formula. The words "vide etiam" don't appear in the page at all, either in the source or in the display with all templates expanded. This was not a problem last week. I've got workarounds ("-insource:NexInt" for starters) but I'm curious whether anybody knows what's going on here. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:46, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Same thing happened to me, a while ago, when I was tagging almost-empty pages about extinct animals. There were, however, fewer than 1,000 of them. My workaround was to save my search results and work from the saved list ... but luckily I had realised very early on that it was happening ... and I was doing the job manually. No help to you, I guess. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:24, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
And there's something else: have a look at Grallator and its talk page. Obviously something's screwed up; what's the best way to report it? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 16:24, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Do any of these machinations have to do with the fact that the following kind of entry has begun to appear in the Nuper mutata? "Categoria:Stipulae Informaticae‎ . . IacobusAmor (Disputatio | conlationes) (Tabula calculatoria removed from category)" IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:36, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Well, turns out the problem with Grallator was the Ichnobox template, not relevant to the "Vide etiam" business at all. As for the Nuper mutata list, I'm not seeing what you're seeing! I see your edit to Tabula calculatoria but from where I sit, it's a perfectly normal entry. You did, of course, remove it from the Stipulae Informaticae category, but that usually doesn't generate a Nuper Mutata entry. So this seems like a new and different anomaly! Are you watching the category, perhaps? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:51, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
OK, I figured it out: it was something I (un)did in the Praeferentiae. I've fixed it, and the list of Nuper mutata looks much less cluttered now. Re: "You did, of course, remove it from the Stipulae Informaticae category, but that usually doesn't generate a Nuper Mutata entry." It apparently does if you uncheck the box that suppresses such entries! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:44, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
I thought of that answer in bed last night. I must get out more. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:18, 4 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Cool: another Preference option I haven't played with! Search is still wonky (wonder if it's looking at a cache someplace?) but I think I know how to find and fix the few remaining "Vide etiam" page sections. I may need to fix the Ichnobox template first, though. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:15, 4 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Ubi crus incipit?[fontem recensere]

A genu? A coxa? Auxilium vestrum peto. Legite, quaero, Disputationem paginae! Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 22:47, 23 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Respondi. Neander (disputatio) 07:42, 24 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-30[fontem recensere]

19:54, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

de nexibus internis[fontem recensere]

Mi dicatis, quaeso, o sodales his rebus initiati, quo mendo (meo proprio, ut puto), cum in pagina qualibet, pressato nexus interni (vel nexus externi), non iam inveniam hos nexus, quibus alium adiungam, sed eorum formulam. Nunc ergo necesse est totam paginam declarare recensendam, si tantum in his nexibus unam solam rem addere volo? --Bavarese (disputatio) 13:32, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

De "nexibus externis" nihil novum scio. De "nexibus internis", verum est: necesse erit aut totam paginam (sicut dicis) aut rubricam superiorem recensere. E.g. in pagina Franciscus Rabelaesus oportet aut totam paginam, aut rubricam "Bibliographia" recensere, si novum "nexum internum" addere vis. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:08, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Quomodo dicimus "unintended consequence"? Quod volumus formulam habere ad nexuum internorum sectionem nominandam, nunc nexus "recensere" prope titulum "Nexus interni" non videtur. Consentio: est res incommoda; me paenitet! Ecquis scit corregere? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:42, 28 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

A curious printing error[fontem recensere]

At 11:00 (universal time) today, I made changes in Vicipaedia:Paginae quas omnibus Wikipediis contineri oportet/Expansio/Homines, but curiously, that title isn't printing in boldface on my screen. All the other titles on which I've worked today are printing in boldface, as usual. This is probably a trivial error (if it is an error), but it may want to be on the record. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:38, 1 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Depends which "screen," doesn't it? In your watchlist (Paginae observandae), a page shows up in boldface if someone other than you was the last person to edit it. In the recent changes list (Nuper mutata), everything on your watchlist should be bold no matter who edited it. If this particular sub-page happens not to be on your watchlist, it won't be boldface. Note, too, that there's no need to edit those lists at all; whenever I intend to run the program to make the statistics table, I always refresh the lists based on what's found in Meta (master copy of list) and Wikidata. As long as you create the Wikidata entry, new pages in the Myriad will be found and accounted for -- that's all you need to do. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:23, 2 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
The page being referred to is the Nuper mutata page, and this is the edit in question. Its entry in Nuper mutata is still not in bold here this morning, though my six immediately subsequent edits made in "Vicipaedia:Paginae quas omnibus Wikipediis contineri oportet/Expansio/" are. Likewise all the other edits I made yesterday. The typography of that one edit is an unexplained anomaly! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:39, 2 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Are you sure this one's on your watch list? Maybe you missed adding it when you did all the others. Otherwise I can't explain the anomaly. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:17, 2 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-31[fontem recensere]

21:48, 1 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Adjectives vs. nouns in the genitive[fontem recensere]

Given English phrases having the structure of Agricultural education, Agricultural economics, Agricultural engineering, and so forth (all eventually to be the lemmata of articles), does Vicipaedia have a preference between adjectives (Educatio agriculturalis, Oeconomica agriculturalis, Ingeniaria agriculturalis) and nouns (Educatio agriculturae, Oeconomica agriculturae, Ingeniaria agriculturae)? Certainly we're told that the Romans would often prefer adjectives for this syntax, with civis Romanus famously cited as a model to be emulated and civis Romae as a horror not to be repeated. However, vicipaedian Latin often, especially in categories, seems to prefer nouns (e.g., poetae Franciae, not poetae Francici). Further the adjective may look odd in some combinations (e.g., Scientia animalis vs. Scientia animalium and perhaps Nutritio animalis vs. Nutritio animalium). Of course not all two-word phrases that in English are adjective+noun must necessarily be rendered by the same pattern in Latin, but if consistency were to be sought, which pattern should be followed? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:25, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

When the first word in a two-word English phrase is an objective noun, is the genitive better? E.g.: Waste management = Administratio scrutorum/ramentorum. (Whether there's a better word for waste here may be a different question.) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:25, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Hmm. The example of Animal nutrition (cited above) might also be said to begin with an objective noun; animal there may not be an adjective, as it would be in animal spirits (= 'high spirits'). So a tentative guess, on the basis of this sample, is that the pattern seen in Agricultural education should be rendered with an adjective (Educatio agriculturalis) and the pattern seen in Waste management (using objective nouns) should be rendered with a genitive (Administratio/Cura scrutorum/ramentorum). Does that distinction seem reasonable? Or should they all be made consistent, one way or the other? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:35, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Hmm is right. I don't think we'll find consistency in translating such a pattern between any two languages. If we could, learning languages would be easy. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:50, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Fortasse ea, quae (vide sequentia!) de adiectivis aut genetivis in relatione ad populos dicta sunt, etiam in aliis relationibus sunt observanda :
Insofern nicht eine Eigenschaft oder Beschaffenheit des Substantivs, sondern die Beziehung, das Verhältnis desselben zu dem Volke bezeichnet wird, sagt man im Lateinischen: Imperator Carthaginiensium, Macedonum rex, civitas Atheniensium. Somit wird 'die römischen Gesandten' durch 'legati Romani' übersetzt, wenn sie in ihrer nationalen Eigenschaft aufgefasst, durch 'legati Romanorum' oder 'populi Romani', wenn sie als im Auftrage des römischen Volkes handelnd bezeichnet werden. Similiter: Man unterscheide 'hominum mores' 'menschliche Sitten' von 'mores humani' 'menschenfreundliche Sitten'. (Hermann Menge, Repetitorium der lateinischen Syntx und Stilistik. München 1960 (13. Auflage), S. 139 (= § 191)
Ut mihi videtur ea - sc. nicht eine Eigenschaft oder Beschaffenheit des Substantivs - de nutritione animali/animalium etc. valere possint. --Bavarese (disputatio) 10:05, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Bene factum! (For the record, here's what I'm understanding: "Thus, 'the Roman ambassadors' [is] translated by 'legati Romani' when they're perceived in their national character, by 'legati Romanorum' . . . when they're designated as acting on behalf of the Roman people.") Ergo, exempli gratia: 'animal spirits' = spiritus animales (Eigenschaft, proprietas), sed 'animal husbandry' = cultura animalium (das Verhältnis desselben zu dem [X] bezeichnet wird, affinitas ad X spectat). OK? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:47, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
I guess in English, the difference would be whether the word is ultimately descriptive ("animal spirits") or attributive ("animal husbandry"). Hebrew has an interesting construction called semichut (status constructus) for attributives, but that's a different discussion. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 13:51, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Ergo faciamus probationem nostri consensus! Rectene factum vobis videtur nomen paginis Bellum alterum de libertate Italiana (sive Italica)? aut ... Italiae? aut ...? --Bavarese (disputatio) 09:21, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Ne inter "Italicam" et "Italianam" haesites, "Italianus -a -um" (verbum alibi valde rarum) hic de lingua Italiana hodierna tantum seligere possumus, distinctionem utilem a linguis Italicis antiquis ita artificiose facientes :) Quando de rebus historicis, geographicis, politicis loquimur, verbum "Italicus -a -um" ubique praeferendum est (dico ego). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:47, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Et Italius et Italus. Nobis praeterea est nomen Italis, -idis, f., cum "plur. as subst. Italides, Italian women, Verg." (Cassell's). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:54, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Eheu! Tam obscure rogavi quaestionem, ut nunc quasi questionem me de mea neglegentia addere oporteat. Non disputaveramus, qua significatione aliud adiectivum ab alio distingueretur - italianus aut(!) italicus -, sed utrum adiectivum - quodvis, sive(!) italianus (ut in pagina Mazentia (Italia), et repudiandum quidem, legitur) sive (!) italicus sive (!) quoddam aliud - praeferendum esset nomini terrae/civitatis (Italia). Clarius: num scribatur 'bellum de libertate italiana/italica' aut 'bellum de libertate Italiae', aut alio quo modo ('Italorum'? 'Italiorum'? 'Italianorum'? et quae alia cogitari possint). Si ego quidem verba vestra non recte intellexi, errorem meum quaeso tollatis.
Si rem tibi inutilem scripsi, da veniam, Bavarese. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:35, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Equidem faveam locutioni "bellum libertatis Italicae". Lesgles (disputatio) 15:50, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Iam habemus "Res Novae Americanae" et "Francicae" et "Philippinicae" et "Tunesienses"; vide autem "Res Novae Russiae (1917)." Aenigma est! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:27, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
@Andrea: Opus non est, Andrea, ulla excusatione. Nuntium tuum semper cum lucro legi.
@IacobusAmor: Res ipsa, ut scripsisti, aenigma est, et esse permanebit. Adeo maior, quod inter fides Punica et fides Poenorum differentiam non nego. Sed res est, ut theodisce dicere solemus, 'ein weites Feld'. --Bavarese (disputatio) 15:06, 17 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Apparitio[fontem recensere]

Inter paginas fortuito a me repertas Apparitio fuit . Miror, quod eo vocabulo omnes negotiationes et mercium confectiones contineantur; et eo magis, quod eodem loco eodemque sensu etiam apparAtio legitur. Plane assentio Iacobo nostro iam anno 2009 huic rei - videatis disputationem svp.- subdiffidenti. Si ex his vocabulis omnino unum probandum est, id apparatio mihi videtur esse. --Bavarese (disputatio) 10:49, 7 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-32[fontem recensere]

15:41, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Save/Publish[fontem recensere]

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:03, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

"Publish" = "Edere"?[fontem recensere]

"Hanc paginam edere" and "Hanc redactionem edere" seem like the natural Latin versions -- any better ideas? I've tentatively put those versions in at TranslateWiki. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 19:04, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! Would "divulgare" be clearer? --UV (disputatio) 19:15, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Traupman restricts edere to books and otherwise suggests publicare and patefacere. Cassell's suggests (di)vulgare, praedicare, patefacere, proferre, efferre, edere, in that order, and says proferre and edere are good for books. Bear in mind that someday, Vicipaedia should have separate articles on Editor and Publisher; for the former, Editor would seem obvious—perhaps implying that in vicipaedianese, edere might be better for the concept of editing, not publishing. Vicipaedia already has Editor principalis 'editor-in-chief'. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:41, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
I keep Traupman's dictionary around but I haven't always been convinced by his Latinity (particularly in the Conversational Latin book); I'm more inclined to trust Cassell's. Smith's Copius & Critical suggests efferre as the basic word and edere as the usual word for publishing a book, oration, or the like. Smith says publicare in this sense is late and also suggests divulgare. Under publisher, by the way, we find "expr. by sumptibus, impensis alicuius librum edere or simply apud." Under edit, "edere, i.e. to publish, q.v. More precisely edendum or vulgandum curo. And although editor = editor, Smith notes "M(odern).L."
Of course, another issue with edere is the possible confusion between ēdere (~ emittere, divulgare, proferre) and ĕdere (~ gustare, manducare) -- I wouldn't want some confused Anglophone thinking "eat the changes" means "make them go away"! So on reflection I vote for divulgare. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:35, 10 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
So do I. Cicero, if he happens to open a Vicipaedia account, is quite likely to agree. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:55, 11 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Modificatio divulgata est! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:25, 11 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-33[fontem recensere]

19:37, 15 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-34[fontem recensere]

21:18, 22 Augusti 2016 (UTC)