Disputatio Usoris:UV

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Vide etiam disputationes annorum 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 et 2018.

Thanks![fontem recensere]

Happy New Year, UV! Thanks for your help with the changes I made yesterday.

I made a further change today. I feel sure that the initial layout I have now tested will not be permanent. I did it this way initially because I wanted to see my changes on mobile view as well, and (if I ever knew) I cannot now remember how and where the pagina prima layout on mobile view is set up. So I tried doing it within the constraints of the current mobile view layout! This has, at any rate, worked, and I will now ask on the Taberna if other Vicipaedians think that this appearance -- with a page-of-the-month, a couple of news items, and a page-of-the-day -- is OK. If "NO", then I simply revert today's changes and nothing is lost. If "YES", then we can adopt a more practical format, one that can be applied equally to mobile view. It would be good, too, if the mobile view pagina prima included the imago mensis. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:59, 2 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)

No problem! We are currently using an outdated method for the selection and presentation of elements on our mobile homepage. Currently, only the two parts surrounded by <div id="mp-???">...</div> elements are presented on our mobile homepage, while all the other content of our homepage is not. We might want to consider to change that. Would you prefer our mobile homepage to show just a few more elements from our desktop homepage or would you prefer it if both show more or less the same content (perhaps with the exclusion of certain elements that do not fit well on a mobile screen)?
If we want to present more content on our mobile homepage, one of the first tasks should be to change the technical way our current pagina prima is formatted: Currently, our pagina prima technically uses a number of tables for layout purposes. It would be good to change the technical means of formatting to use a "responsive column layout" instead of tables. (This can be done so that the design looks exactly the same as now when viewed on a device with a sufficiently wide display such as a computer screen, but will be much better readable than now when viewed on a device with a narrow screen width.)
A description can be found here: mw:Mobile Gateway/Mobile homepage formatting. See in particular the section on the now-deprecated "MFSpecialCaseMainPage", which we are currently still using.
I am not an expert on responsive screen design, but if you wish, I could try to get rid of the tables on our pagina prima, so that we can then proceed with the next steps, what do you think?
Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 14:34, 2 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for your helpful response. I will read the page you have linked. I think it is reasonable that some content is not shown on the mobile page, given the small size of mobile screens and the fact that some Pagina prima content is not active. We probably need to do some renewal of content in any case ... It sounds as though the "responsive column layout" would be a very good idea if you have time to work on the existing tables.
I wonder whether there is an argument for merging the Pagina prima and the Porta communis? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:04, 2 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
I have made the "Pagina cottidiana" into a separate section of the page, as it was yesterday and obviously should be, but, having done this, I'm not able to persuade it (and the imago mensis) to appear on the Pagina prima in mobile view. Perhaps you could manage this for me? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:32, 3 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
Pagina cottidiana and imago mensis are now shown on our mobile homepage. No objection against abolishing the Porta communis. Still working on responsive layout … Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 19:02, 3 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
Please test Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova in desktop view and in mobile view, each for wide and narrow screen width, possibly using all browsers you have available. Older browsers may fail to display three columns, but with all browsers the content should be readable and accessible.
Should we eliminate the grey content menu from mobile view (but keep it for the desktop view)? It seems to use much screen space on mobile, and I am not sure that mobile users really benefit from it.
Once we find that Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova looks nice, we can copy it over to our real pagina prima.
Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:51, 3 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
At first sight, it's great in both environments. I will test it later today on more browsers and devices, and let's ask others to do so too.
I personally never use the content menu in Vicipaedia: just occasionally in en:wiki because those pages are so dreadfully long. I think eliminating it from mobile view is a good idea. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:05, 4 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I didn't report further, but I have checked the pagina prima, in both views, on an Ipad, a smartphone and an Android tablet, and in three browsers on my desktop. It seems fine in all environments. In the next days I will consider some rearrangement of the pagina prima to include what is desirable from the Porta communis -- notably the weekly translation.

Perfect! Just go ahead! You might, if you wish, use Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova as a harenarium for testing, and if everything looks good, copy it over to our real Vicipaedia:Pagina prima.
By the way: Thank you for creating and updating a "pagina cottidiana" - in my view, it is a great idea to feature a new page every day, which invites readers to check back to our pagina prima often, and which shows the activity in the creation of articles on diverse subjects here on Vicipaedia!

I am thinking that Formula:Nuntii, which is currently distinct from the latest news on the Pagina prima and from the items listed on pages 2019 and 2018 (but is not being actively updated), is unnecessary. Items deleted from the news on the pagina prima could be copied straight to 2019, and there could be a link to 2019 on the Pagina prima. Do you have any opinion on this? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 22:03, 9 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)

No objection! In my view, the ideal solution would be to merge the current contents of Formula:Nuntii into the appropriate year pages (2015 to 2018) and then to retire Formula:Nuntii. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:28, 9 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
I agree. I'll work on it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:50, 10 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)

Is it ok if I copy over the contents of our testpage Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova to our real pagina prima, excluding the grey content menu from mobile view (but keeping it for the desktop view)? Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:37, 8 Februarii 2019 (UTC)

Having said "I'll work on it", I have done little more. Other things happen. But I intend in the next few days to deal with the "Nuntii" in the way that we agreed just above, and meanwhile I think it would be excellent to copy the "Nova" subpage into the real Pagina prima. Whenever you like! I have one minor question in my mind. Why does the "Imago mensis" not have a headline like the other elements of the two left hand columns? I haven't tried to reformat it, aware that whatever I do might not work on mobile view. Perhaps you have a clearer understanding of this. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:51, 9 Februarii 2019 (UTC)
No problem! I have added a headline for the imago mensualis and I have copied the contents of Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova to our real pagina prima. I have also requested that the server admins change the server configuration to show all pagina prima content on mobile view as well (phab:T215709). Feel free to experiment with Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova, and whenever the result looks good, we can copy it over to our real pagina prima again. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 21:15, 9 Februarii 2019 (UTC)
phab:T215709 has been successfully dealt with – we now have a responsive main page that shows the same content (but for the grey content menu) as in desktop view! --UV (disputatio) 21:43, 11 Februarii 2019 (UTC)
By the way: I suggest that we swap the positions of "Pagina cottidiana" and "Pagina mensualis" on our main page. That way, the "Pagina cottidiana" will become more prominent and our main page will invite readers to check back more often, what do you think? Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 21:21, 9 Februarii 2019 (UTC)
I wouldn't object to that -- I understand your point, and of course that was my very reason for introducing the feature in the first place! I hesitate because it was a "unilateral" move on which no one else has commented, though I see signs that other Vicipaedians are looking at the paginae cottidianae and editing them. There's no consensus, as you will realise: I just keep a file of respectable recent pages and promote one each day. One of us should perhaps propose this change on the Taberna, and see what others say. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:01, 10 Februarii 2019 (UTC)

Interface admin[fontem recensere]

UV, if you are still willing, please go ahead and propose yourself as interface administrator. See the responses at the Taberna -- all in favour. If you need me to add a comment at the Meta page I will do so of course. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:48, 9 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)

I am quite sure that we need not bother the people at meta:, but instead our Vicipaedia:Grapheocrates can grant this userright at la:Special:Userrights/UV. I have no objection if you go ahead to his enwiki talk page and ask him. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:28, 9 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I didn't understand that. I'll pay him a visit. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:21, 10 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)
He responded without delay! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:50, 10 Ianuarii 2019 (UTC)

Hagenium - Wikidata[fontem recensere]

Just to let you know that I copied that from somewhere and I don't know from where, anymore... Nice to see that it's that much easier, though. Sigur (disputatio) 23:16, 11 Martii 2019 (UTC)

I added a note on Sigur's talk page. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:21, 12 Martii 2019 (UTC)
Sigur, no problem! Andrew, thanks for explaining! Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 19:50, 15 Martii 2019 (UTC)

Porta communis[fontem recensere]

Greetings, UV. Is it a good time to merge the porta communis with the pagina prima (as we mentioned above)? The helpful links at the top of the porta communis are partly common to the pagina prima, partly different, but the two sets of links could be combined, and I could do that, as an experiment, for comment. The only remaining feature on it, which is not already shared with the pagina prima, is the weekly translation, which you maintain. I think this will get more attention on the pagina prima. I would suggest placing it at the top of the right hand column. But what do you think? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:31, 16 Martii 2019 (UTC)

Logically, then, the right hand column would be all about "collaboratio", and would be headed by a feature that changes regularly. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:30, 16 Martii 2019 (UTC)
Good idea, feel free to make a proposal at Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova! Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:13, 17 Martii 2019 (UTC)
OK, I'll experiment. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:23, 18 Martii 2019 (UTC)
I've edited Vicipaedia:Pagina prima/Nova, and I will mention this on the Taberna. Would you have time to add an image (when appropriate) at "Translatio hebdomadis"? It perhaps makes the item seem more interesting. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:11, 22 Martii 2019 (UTC)
Good idea, yes, I can try to add a suitable image. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 18:17, 22 Martii 2019 (UTC)