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Index

De formulis etiam in Vicipaedia Latina adoptandis[fontem recensere]

Cunctis salutem. De otio Latinos articulos redigendi reversus nonnullas suadeo mutationes exsequendas esse atque evolvendas, quae incrementum Vicipaedia serviat. Adoptentur enim oportet infocapsae non solum ad nationem oppidumve verum etiam ad personas (v.g. functionarios politicos) spectantes, ut aliae iamdudum Vicipaediae id solverant. --Martinus Vester (disputatio) 16:47, 9 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Salve, Martine! Habemus formulam {{Capsa hominis Vicidata}}. Melius erit vitam hominum non perbreviter in infocapsis, sed in textu commentationis describere (vide etiam Disputatio Usoris:Katxis#Infoboxes). Fortasse mox omnes Vicipaediae infocapsas communes habebunt, vide meta:2015 Community Wishlist Survey > "Central global repository for templates, gadgets and Lua modules", et > "Make it easy to build infoboxes that display information from wikidata". --UV (disputatio) 13:17, 10 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

New British PM[fontem recensere]

Crystal 128 up.png Commentatio principalis: Theresa May

I've started to put some infrastructure into place, tried to update some templates, and so forth. But my Latin writing skills are nowhere near good enough to update body text on any of the ministers, outgoing, incoming, or otherwise. Assistance welcome. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 18:33, 13 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Update at 17:14, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)[fontem recensere]

It looks like the cabinet-level appointments have now all been made. The template {{Consilium Britannicum May}} is up to date, and has been included on all of the cabinet secretaries' pages that currently exist. Let me point out again that:

  • My Latin skills are rudimentary at best. All of the existing pages need to be updated to reflect current jobs, and many pages of members of David Cameron's cabinet need to be updated to reflect those changes, too. But that's not something I can do.
  • Similarly, a number of new pages are needed. I don't imagine that they will all be written, but a few of the posts (like Amber Rudd's at the Home Office) are senior enough to merit a page. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:14, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for all you have done! I have done some of the updating you suggest, but I haven't written any new pages (yet). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:59, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I do appreciate your pruning the rest of the names at the end there. I left them at first, figuring it would be easier than trying to figure out all of the Latin forms from scratch. But by the end ... (grin) StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:03, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
PS: You got them all ... except for the Cancellarius Scaccarii. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:12, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Amber Rudd is now blue (the appropriate colour for Conservatives). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 07:21, 17 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Odd how the Conservatives are blue there, but Democrats are blue here. You may still like to give the Rt. Hon. Philippus Hammond, MP, his new job. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 01:55, 18 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Corrigendum correctum![fontem recensere]

Categoria [[Categoria:Imago sine descriptione]] nunc vacua est! Gaudeamus igitur. Ut omnes scimus (vel, spero nos omnes scire), imago apud nos descriptionem habeto, ut machinae computrales usorum caecorum clara voce descriptionem legere possint -- etiamsi descriptio in pagina non apparet. (Descriptio in [[Fasciculus:...]] fit "alt=" cum pagina in forma HTML fit.) Ex hoc die in perpetuum, esto nulla pagina hac in categoria! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:55, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Permultae imagines in commentariis de perparvis vicis Italicis formam habent "Imago vici X," cum accuratior forma sit "Ecclesia Sancti Iosephi vici X," aut "Forum medium vici X," aut alia—res haud melior quam "Imago sine descriptione." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:16, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Tecum consentio, et omnes, qui in talibus paginis laborabunt, adhortor ad descriptiones admeliorandas. Sunt etiam imagines sine descriptionibus quae formula carent, quae invenitae corrigendae. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:23, 14 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

IMPORTANT: Admin activity review[fontem recensere]

Hello. A new policy regarding the removal of "advanced rights" (administrator, bureaucrat, etc) was adopted by global community consensus in 2013. According to this policy, the stewards are reviewing administrators' activity on smaller wikis. To the best of our knowledge, your wiki does not have a formal process for removing "advanced rights" from inactive accounts. This means that the stewards will take care of this according to the admin activity review.

We have determined that the following users meet the inactivity criteria (no edits and no log actions for more than 2 years):

  1. Mycēs (administrator)

These users will receive a notification soon, asking them to start a community discussion if they want to retain some or all of their rights. If the users do not respond, then their advanced rights will be removed by the stewards.

However, if you as a community would like to create your own activity review process superseding the global one, want to make another decision about these inactive rights holders, or already have a policy that we missed, then please notify the stewards on Meta-Wiki so that we know not to proceed with the rights review on your wiki. Thanks, Rschen7754 20:52, 16 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Well, we do have a policy (Vicipaedia:Magistratus#De magistratibus quiescentibus), but we seem to have not put it into practice at least for the past one-and-a-half years ... --UV (disputatio) 22:01, 24 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
That's true, and thanks for providing the link! Myces has been a very useful adviser, and I was hoping he would still show up sometimes, but I noticed recently that he has been absent from en:wiki and from la:wikt for about the same length of time.
So our policy could be applied. It provides that he'd be welcome to return whenever he wants. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:27, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I suggest that Andrew (probably better than the rest of us) contact the stewards to point out to them that we do, in fact, have a policy. (Its English-language translation is here: Vicipaedia:Magistratus/en#Inactive administrators.) My only question—and it's a question only—is whether this (or 12 months or 18 months) should be a mandatory deflagging for security purposes. I don't think that's terribly burdensome if the inactive admin is allowed to request his reflagging without a new vote. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 13:51, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
No better, but maybe nearly as good as anyone else :) OK, I'll tell them. In this case, they have already posted a notice on Myces' page. Since we hadn't reacted to Myces' absence, I can't see any reason why they shouldn't now continue their process. It won't prevent him getting his flag back if he reappears here and asks for it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:52, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Agree. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:33, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

De Sonubus in pagina prima[fontem recensere]

Ex anno 2004 Pagina Mensis in pagina prima apparet; ex anno 2013, imaginem et sonum mensuales habemus. Difficile est autem sonus bonos invenire. Velim igitur rogare utrum sonum mensis persistere oporteat: quid censetis? (De imaginibus et, certissime, de paginis mensualibus non disputo.) A. Mahoney (disputatio) 15:17, 18 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Aucune réponse? Ça vous est égal à vous tous? D'accord: je vais supprimer le "Son du mois" sur notre première page -- dès aujourd'hui.
No answers? Nobody cares? Fair enough: I'm taking "Sound of the Month" off the front page this afternoon. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:37, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Anne! The sounds of the month have been a really good thing, but I'm conscious that I hardly have time to help find more of them. In fact I (we) ought to start worrying about future "paginae mensium". Any suggestions under that heading? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:18, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I've proposed a few pages; we haven't done anything classical/Roman in a while, and there's also some good science/tech stuff we could use. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:41, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

WikiCon IT[fontem recensere]

Salve a tutti! Scusate se scrivo in italiano. Con Jaqen e CristianNX ci è ci è venuta la pazza idea di organizzare una WikiConference italiana, su modello delle esperienze di altri paesi (ad es. quella tedesca). AlessioMela e altri si sono prontamente detti disponibili a dare una mano. Si tratterebbe, in breve, di una tre giorni (da venerdì alla domenica) di incontri fra utenti di Wikipedia e degli altri progetti Wikimedia. L'idea è di farla a Trento in primavera 2017. Abbiamo creato la pagina su Meta per chiedere finanziamenti a Wikimedia Foundation (l'idea è anche quella di coprire ai partecipanti vitto e alloggio, e a quanti possibile anche le spese di viaggio).
Al momento chiaramente è solo una bozza, ma è già possibile dare il proprio endorsement. Inoltre, per aiutarci a organizzare sarebbe importante avere un'idea di quanta gente potrebbe partecipare: se vi va potete farcelo sapere qui, nella talk su meta, via mail a me, ecc. So che senza nemmeno sapere quando sarà è difficile rispondere, ma ci basta anche un "forse parteciperò".
La sezione Partecipants su meta invece non è per chi semplicemente parteciperà, ma per chi dà una mano, e in effetti se avete voglia di dare una mano siete più che i benvenuti. Troveremo sicuramente qualcosa da farvi fare :)
Dite anche se avete idee sul programma (es. qualcosa di cui secondo voi bisognerebbe assolutamente parlare). Potete scriverlo qua, o direttamente a me. Chiaramente più avanti abbiamo intenzione di mettere in piedi un sistema meglio strutturato, ma intanto ci pare utile raccogliere idee.
In caso di qualunque dubbio, suggerimento, ecc. siamo a disposizione! --Yiyi (disputatio) 08:57, 20 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Vide etiam[fontem recensere]

Could one of our kind programmers devise & run a program that would change all the Vide etiam titles to Nexus interni titles. At least one of our authors is beginning to put items listed under Vide etiam into the accusative. If that's not nipped in the bud (so to speak), Vicipaedia will end up with competing sets of styles for linking to other articles within the project. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:30, 22 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Si id faciat, Vicipaedia:Structura paginae etiam commutator, quaeso. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 22:53, 22 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I can do this tomorrow, if no one else gets there first, and I'll adjust the "Structura paginae" text as well. The easiest, perhaps, would be to create a Formula that produces the "Nexus interni" section heading -- if we use that everywhere, then we can change the wording globally any time we want simply by editing that formula. An additional benefit would be that we can add a hidden category ("pages with Nexus Interni sections") from which we can determine which pages have a crude list of links -- since in principle that should be a place-holder for writing actual text that connects this article to those other ones. And that would be another pointer to Paginae Ameliorandae. What do folks think of this? -- let me know and I'll take it up when I'm at school tomorrow afternoon. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 14:00, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
A useful idea, I should think, as a list of pages lacking nexus interni could be helpful to have; however, if all the Vide etiams are changed, can the process be effected silently, the way programs remove superfluous interwiki links, without cluttering up the Nuper mutata with tens of thousands (!) of records? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:10, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
We should learn how to create those bots.--Jondel (disputatio) 14:44, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I also think the formula idea is good -- principally for the "additional benefit" that Anne mentions.
Not necessarily to be done at the same time, but let's bear in mind that we've been anything but consistent in the order of items at the foot of a page. The order now given in "Structura paginae" was agreed five years ago, but many pages are arranged in other ways. Consistency, if eventually attainable, would be no bad thing. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:06, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
If we either create a bot (better) or create the "flooder" (pseudobot) user group here (second best), we can get around the problem of cluttering up the Nuper mutata. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:14, 25 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I do use a bot (AMahoney bot = me with my bot hat on). I don't know how other people do it -- and I can imagine better ways but I'm a bit lazy :-) -- but I'll just write a one-off program to do this, and have it log in under the bot's ID. If you can write code, you, too, can become a Vicipaedia bot! I use Perl and its Mediawiki packages, but one may use any programming language. Point is, changes made by a user with the bot flag are marked specially in Nuper Mutata, and are by default hidden. Now, as for order of items, that's a harder problem and I'm not proposing to work on that today. I'm just planning to create a new formula -- call it {{NexInt}} for example -- that puts the heading "Nexus interni" and adds the page to a new hidden category "pages with Nexus interni section." For the record, I'm assuming that the presence of a Nexus Interni section (or Vide Etiam or whatever it's called) is a bad thing: we're not looking for pages that lack these, to put them in, but for pages that have them, to turn those crude links into text. Am I right? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:31, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Just to confirm, yes, I think it's a very good idea. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:53, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
At this stage of the game, listing links to tangentially related articles is a useful (and hence good) thing. After a few million more articles have appeared and opportunities for linking have correspondingly increased, then it might be more of a neutral thing. Plenty of articles in the English wiki (still) have such links. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:02, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
They have, but it's a sign that they have some improving to do ... and we're at a far-less-developed stage. So, yes, we surely expect this exercise to present to us large numbers of "Nexus interni", and it's surely a long term aim to incorporate the deserving ones into article text. A good aim, though. A plain list of links doesn't tell a reader why each linked page is relevant. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:54, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Summarizing, then: we want to write "Nexus Interni" (or "Nexus interni" with minuscule?) rather than "Vide etiam," and we want to collect such pages into a hidden category for future reference. If that's correct, then I'll get on it. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 15:47, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
That's my understanding (with minuscule: Nexus interni). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:52, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
That sounds fine to me. It will require some manual cleanup with the pages that do have the accusative, unless the bot can parse Latin grammar! :) Lesgles (disputatio) 16:32, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Metagrammatical comment, plus suggestion. No dispute about how we're accomplishing this. In fact, it makes great sense to do it this way.
  • Who says that a list of pages after Vide etiam: can't be in nominative? Yes, in theory, any/all of the elements of the list are objects of the verb vide. Still, it's a list, not a sentence. So ... who says we'd need to decline the elements of the list as if they're really part of a sentence? It's not as if we need a declension to determine what the role of these is in the sentence.
  • Couldn't one just as easily have made a case for genitive? After all, we're not really "See[ing] also" the object itself, we're "see[ing] also" the page of the object. So arguably paginam is the true direct object in every case, taking a genitive specification afterwards.
All that said, then:
  • It makes sense to avoid the problem entirely by using Nexus interni.
  • We should probably make a policy that says "lists should be in nominative".
StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:15, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
There is indeed a lot of precedent for treating dictionary and encyclopedia lemmata as indeclinable. It is the rule in Hofmann: "Vide Dorcestria"; Forcellini: "Cacabulus, deminut. a cacabus, κακκάβιον, parvus cacabus"; and the Thesaurus Linguae Latinae: "vide etiam Annicia". As you say, with "vide etiam equus", we aren't asked to look at a horse, but an article about horses. For that reason I wasn't sure about this change; but in the end, I like the parallelism with "nexus externi". Lesgles (disputatio) 16:19, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I am now in process of replacing "vide etiam" with a new formula, and will then go on to "nexus interni." The formula is called "NexInt" and the corresponding category is "Paginae cum sectione nexuum internorum" (hidden, naturally, and under Corrigenda). I'm only doing the main namespace; we're on our own for Usor: pages and the like. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:28, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
There are a zillion of these. Many are fixed; I'll fire the bot up again when I'm here on Thursday. Meanwhile, feel free to put the new formula in by hand! See Duo for an example. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 20:43, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Awesome work!--Jondel (disputatio) 22:39, 26 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Indeed, awesome work. Anne, at risk of seeming ungrateful (by suggesting one other piece of work): I agree that for most other page spaces (like Usor) we are (and should be) on our own. Maybe you (your bot) can have a look at Formula: and Vicipaedia: spaces, though. I doubt there are many examples there, but I consider them official enough that they deserve careful scrutiny. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:51, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
I'm not ungrateful either -- quite the contrary. Now that it'll be so easy to locate them all, does it make sense for a bot to remove from among the nexus interni the items that are of no use, I mean: redlinks; links already duplicated in the text; hidden matter? And could a bot in fact do that? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:20, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
It isn't hard to do the same thing in other name spaces; I'll do so. I agree that some of them are official parts of Vicipaedia. As for checking the content of the NexInt section, I don't know. Maybe redlinks are do-able, and I suppose I can see how to check if a link in this section appears elsewhere. But we're talking about over 60,000 pages, and I expect it would take days. I'd defer this in favor of working on Latinity and other housekeeping that seems more useful. Still, worth keeping in mind. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 21:28, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, that makes good sense to me. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:20, 28 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Progress report: the new formula now appears on over 45,000 pages, but there are some 28,000 to go in the main name space, which will get done over the course of the next week. I'm working on the Vicipaedia and Formula name spaces manually since they're small -- about 150 "Vide etiam"s in VP, about 280 in Formula -- and possibly tricky: others who wish are welcome to help (or to adjust or correct what I change there). See below for an unexpected side effect, and if it's fixable, please do! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:46, 28 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Search problem?[fontem recensere]

So I'm managing this with a program that does a search for "Vide etiam" in pages, verifies that the phrase is actually a section heading ("== Vide etiam =="), and replaces it with the new formula. But starting yesterday, a search on that phrase turns up all sorts of pages where the phrase does not appear -- but used to! If you do the search, you'll find "Mercatus (Pars Vide etiam)," for example. But there is no such heading in that page: it's already been replaced by the new formula. The words "vide etiam" don't appear in the page at all, either in the source or in the display with all templates expanded. This was not a problem last week. I've got workarounds ("-insource:NexInt" for starters) but I'm curious whether anybody knows what's going on here. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:46, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Same thing happened to me, a while ago, when I was tagging almost-empty pages about extinct animals. There were, however, fewer than 1,000 of them. My workaround was to save my search results and work from the saved list ... but luckily I had realised very early on that it was happening ... and I was doing the job manually. No help to you, I guess. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:24, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
And there's something else: have a look at Grallator and its talk page. Obviously something's screwed up; what's the best way to report it? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 16:24, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Do any of these machinations have to do with the fact that the following kind of entry has begun to appear in the Nuper mutata? "Categoria:Stipulae Informaticae‎ . . IacobusAmor (Disputatio | conlationes) (Tabula calculatoria removed from category)" IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:36, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Well, turns out the problem with Grallator was the Ichnobox template, not relevant to the "Vide etiam" business at all. As for the Nuper mutata list, I'm not seeing what you're seeing! I see your edit to Tabula calculatoria but from where I sit, it's a perfectly normal entry. You did, of course, remove it from the Stipulae Informaticae category, but that usually doesn't generate a Nuper Mutata entry. So this seems like a new and different anomaly! Are you watching the category, perhaps? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:51, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
OK, I figured it out: it was something I (un)did in the Praeferentiae. I've fixed it, and the list of Nuper mutata looks much less cluttered now. Re: "You did, of course, remove it from the Stipulae Informaticae category, but that usually doesn't generate a Nuper Mutata entry." It apparently does if you uncheck the box that suppresses such entries! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:44, 3 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
I thought of that answer in bed last night. I must get out more. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:18, 4 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Cool: another Preference option I haven't played with! Search is still wonky (wonder if it's looking at a cache someplace?) but I think I know how to find and fix the few remaining "Vide etiam" page sections. I may need to fix the Ichnobox template first, though. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:15, 4 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Ubi crus incipit?[fontem recensere]

A genu? A coxa? Auxilium vestrum peto. Legite, quaero, Disputationem paginae! Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 22:47, 23 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

Respondi. Neander (disputatio) 07:42, 24 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

de nexibus internis[fontem recensere]

Mi dicatis, quaeso, o sodales his rebus initiati, quo mendo (meo proprio, ut puto), cum in pagina qualibet, pressato nexus interni (vel nexus externi), non iam inveniam hos nexus, quibus alium adiungam, sed eorum formulam. Nunc ergo necesse est totam paginam declarare recensendam, si tantum in his nexibus unam solam rem addere volo? --Bavarese (disputatio) 13:32, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

De "nexibus externis" nihil novum scio. De "nexibus internis", verum est: necesse erit aut totam paginam (sicut dicis) aut rubricam superiorem recensere. E.g. in pagina Franciscus Rabelaesus oportet aut totam paginam, aut rubricam "Bibliographia" recensere, si novum "nexum internum" addere vis. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:08, 27 Iulii 2016 (UTC)
Quomodo dicimus "unintended consequence"? Quod volumus formulam habere ad nexuum internorum sectionem nominandam, nunc nexus "recensere" prope titulum "Nexus interni" non videtur. Consentio: est res incommoda; me paenitet! Ecquis scit corregere? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:42, 28 Iulii 2016 (UTC)

A curious printing error[fontem recensere]

At 11:00 (universal time) today, I made changes in Vicipaedia:Paginae quas omnibus Wikipediis contineri oportet/Expansio/Homines, but curiously, that title isn't printing in boldface on my screen. All the other titles on which I've worked today are printing in boldface, as usual. This is probably a trivial error (if it is an error), but it may want to be on the record. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:38, 1 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Depends which "screen," doesn't it? In your watchlist (Paginae observandae), a page shows up in boldface if someone other than you was the last person to edit it. In the recent changes list (Nuper mutata), everything on your watchlist should be bold no matter who edited it. If this particular sub-page happens not to be on your watchlist, it won't be boldface. Note, too, that there's no need to edit those lists at all; whenever I intend to run the program to make the statistics table, I always refresh the lists based on what's found in Meta (master copy of list) and Wikidata. As long as you create the Wikidata entry, new pages in the Myriad will be found and accounted for -- that's all you need to do. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:23, 2 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
The page being referred to is the Nuper mutata page, and this is the edit in question. Its entry in Nuper mutata is still not in bold here this morning, though my six immediately subsequent edits made in "Vicipaedia:Paginae quas omnibus Wikipediis contineri oportet/Expansio/" are. Likewise all the other edits I made yesterday. The typography of that one edit is an unexplained anomaly! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:39, 2 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Are you sure this one's on your watch list? Maybe you missed adding it when you did all the others. Otherwise I can't explain the anomaly. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:17, 2 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Adjectives vs. nouns in the genitive[fontem recensere]

Given English phrases having the structure of Agricultural education, Agricultural economics, Agricultural engineering, and so forth (all eventually to be the lemmata of articles), does Vicipaedia have a preference between adjectives (Educatio agriculturalis, Oeconomica agriculturalis, Ingeniaria agriculturalis) and nouns (Educatio agriculturae, Oeconomica agriculturae, Ingeniaria agriculturae)? Certainly we're told that the Romans would often prefer adjectives for this syntax, with civis Romanus famously cited as a model to be emulated and civis Romae as a horror not to be repeated. However, vicipaedian Latin often, especially in categories, seems to prefer nouns (e.g., poetae Franciae, not poetae Francici). Further the adjective may look odd in some combinations (e.g., Scientia animalis vs. Scientia animalium and perhaps Nutritio animalis vs. Nutritio animalium). Of course not all two-word phrases that in English are adjective+noun must necessarily be rendered by the same pattern in Latin, but if consistency were to be sought, which pattern should be followed? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:25, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

When the first word in a two-word English phrase is an objective noun, is the genitive better? E.g.: Waste management = Administratio scrutorum/ramentorum. (Whether there's a better word for waste here may be a different question.) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:25, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Hmm. The example of Animal nutrition (cited above) might also be said to begin with an objective noun; animal there may not be an adjective, as it would be in animal spirits (= 'high spirits'). So a tentative guess, on the basis of this sample, is that the pattern seen in Agricultural education should be rendered with an adjective (Educatio agriculturalis) and the pattern seen in Waste management (using objective nouns) should be rendered with a genitive (Administratio/Cura scrutorum/ramentorum). Does that distinction seem reasonable? Or should they all be made consistent, one way or the other? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:35, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Hmm is right. I don't think we'll find consistency in translating such a pattern between any two languages. If we could, learning languages would be easy. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:50, 5 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Fortasse ea, quae (vide sequentia!) de adiectivis aut genetivis in relatione ad populos dicta sunt, etiam in aliis relationibus sunt observanda :
Insofern nicht eine Eigenschaft oder Beschaffenheit des Substantivs, sondern die Beziehung, das Verhältnis desselben zu dem Volke bezeichnet wird, sagt man im Lateinischen: Imperator Carthaginiensium, Macedonum rex, civitas Atheniensium. Somit wird 'die römischen Gesandten' durch 'legati Romani' übersetzt, wenn sie in ihrer nationalen Eigenschaft aufgefasst, durch 'legati Romanorum' oder 'populi Romani', wenn sie als im Auftrage des römischen Volkes handelnd bezeichnet werden. Similiter: Man unterscheide 'hominum mores' 'menschliche Sitten' von 'mores humani' 'menschenfreundliche Sitten'. (Hermann Menge, Repetitorium der lateinischen Syntx und Stilistik. München 1960 (13. Auflage), S. 139 (= § 191)
Ut mihi videtur ea - sc. nicht eine Eigenschaft oder Beschaffenheit des Substantivs - de nutritione animali/animalium etc. valere possint. --Bavarese (disputatio) 10:05, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Bene factum! (For the record, here's what I'm understanding: "Thus, 'the Roman ambassadors' [is] translated by 'legati Romani' when they're perceived in their national character, by 'legati Romanorum' . . . when they're designated as acting on behalf of the Roman people.") Ergo, exempli gratia: 'animal spirits' = spiritus animales (Eigenschaft, proprietas), sed 'animal husbandry' = cultura animalium (das Verhältnis desselben zu dem [X] bezeichnet wird, affinitas ad X spectat). OK? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:47, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
I guess in English, the difference would be whether the word is ultimately descriptive ("animal spirits") or attributive ("animal husbandry"). Hebrew has an interesting construction called semichut (status constructus) for attributives, but that's a different discussion. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 13:51, 8 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Ergo faciamus probationem nostri consensus! Rectene factum vobis videtur nomen paginis Bellum alterum de libertate Italiana (sive Italica)? aut ... Italiae? aut ...? --Bavarese (disputatio) 09:21, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Ne inter "Italicam" et "Italianam" haesites, "Italianus -a -um" (verbum alibi valde rarum) hic de lingua Italiana hodierna tantum seligere possumus, distinctionem utilem a linguis Italicis antiquis ita artificiose facientes :) Quando de rebus historicis, geographicis, politicis loquimur, verbum "Italicus -a -um" ubique praeferendum est (dico ego). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:47, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Et Italius et Italus. Nobis praeterea est nomen Italis, -idis, f., cum "plur. as subst. Italides, Italian women, Verg." (Cassell's). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:54, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Eheu! Tam obscure rogavi quaestionem, ut nunc quasi questionem me de mea neglegentia addere oporteat. Non disputaveramus, qua significatione aliud adiectivum ab alio distingueretur - italianus aut(!) italicus -, sed utrum adiectivum - quodvis, sive(!) italianus (ut in pagina Mazentia (Italia), et repudiandum quidem, legitur) sive (!) italicus sive (!) quoddam aliud - praeferendum esset nomini terrae/civitatis (Italia). Clarius: num scribatur 'bellum de libertate italiana/italica' aut 'bellum de libertate Italiae', aut alio quo modo ('Italorum'? 'Italiorum'? 'Italianorum'? et quae alia cogitari possint). Si ego quidem verba vestra non recte intellexi, errorem meum quaeso tollatis.
Si rem tibi inutilem scripsi, da veniam, Bavarese. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:35, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Equidem faveam locutioni "bellum libertatis Italicae". Lesgles (disputatio) 15:50, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Iam habemus "Res Novae Americanae" et "Francicae" et "Philippinicae" et "Tunesienses"; vide autem "Res Novae Russiae (1917)." Aenigma est! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:27, 16 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
@Andrea: Opus non est, Andrea, ulla excusatione. Nuntium tuum semper cum lucro legi.
@IacobusAmor: Res ipsa, ut scripsisti, aenigma est, et esse permanebit. Adeo maior, quod inter fides Punica et fides Poenorum differentiam non nego. Sed res est, ut theodisce dicere solemus, 'ein weites Feld'. --Bavarese (disputatio) 15:06, 17 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Apparitio[fontem recensere]

Inter paginas fortuito a me repertas Apparitio fuit . Miror, quod eo vocabulo omnes negotiationes et mercium confectiones contineantur; et eo magis, quod eodem loco eodemque sensu etiam apparAtio legitur. Plane assentio Iacobo nostro iam anno 2009 huic rei - videatis disputationem svp.- subdiffidenti. Si ex his vocabulis omnino unum probandum est, id apparatio mihi videtur esse. --Bavarese (disputatio) 10:49, 7 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Save/Publish[fontem recensere]

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:03, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

"Publish" = "Edere"?[fontem recensere]

"Hanc paginam edere" and "Hanc redactionem edere" seem like the natural Latin versions -- any better ideas? I've tentatively put those versions in at TranslateWiki. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 19:04, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! Would "divulgare" be clearer? --UV (disputatio) 19:15, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Traupman restricts edere to books and otherwise suggests publicare and patefacere. Cassell's suggests (di)vulgare, praedicare, patefacere, proferre, efferre, edere, in that order, and says proferre and edere are good for books. Bear in mind that someday, Vicipaedia should have separate articles on Editor and Publisher; for the former, Editor would seem obvious—perhaps implying that in vicipaedianese, edere might be better for the concept of editing, not publishing. Vicipaedia already has Editor principalis 'editor-in-chief'. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:41, 9 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
I keep Traupman's dictionary around but I haven't always been convinced by his Latinity (particularly in the Conversational Latin book); I'm more inclined to trust Cassell's. Smith's Copius & Critical suggests efferre as the basic word and edere as the usual word for publishing a book, oration, or the like. Smith says publicare in this sense is late and also suggests divulgare. Under publisher, by the way, we find "expr. by sumptibus, impensis alicuius librum edere or simply apud." Under edit, "edere, i.e. to publish, q.v. More precisely edendum or vulgandum curo. And although editor = editor, Smith notes "M(odern).L."
Of course, another issue with edere is the possible confusion between ēdere (~ emittere, divulgare, proferre) and ĕdere (~ gustare, manducare) -- I wouldn't want some confused Anglophone thinking "eat the changes" means "make them go away"! So on reflection I vote for divulgare. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:35, 10 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
So do I. Cicero, if he happens to open a Vicipaedia account, is quite likely to agree. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:55, 11 Augusti 2016 (UTC)
Modificatio divulgata est! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:25, 11 Augusti 2016 (UTC)

Res, quam - me nesciente, quo modo - vitandam esse puto[fontem recensere]

Iterum atque iterum paginae reperiuntur, in quibus de rebus quibusdam agitur, quae eo tempore, in quo scriptae sunt, nondum gestae, sed aliquando futurae erant. Sed post nonnullos annos legentibus ridiculum videatur, de rebus iam gestis tempore futuro scriptum esse. Si legentes non operae pretium esse censent mutationes necessarias facere (non solum vocabulorum singulorum, sed, consecutionem temporum observantes, totarum fere sententiarum), hae paginae de rebus futuris narrantes in aeternum permanebunt conservatae. Hoccine est, quod volumus? Res futurae habentne omnino satis ponderis, ut in encyclopaediam accipiantur? --Bavarese (disputatio) 16:27, 2 Septembris 2016 (UTC)

Res futurae interdum non accidunt! Nisi accidunt, haud notabiles sunt! An potes, mi Bavarese, exempla citare paginarum de quibus consilia postulas? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:08, 2 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Exempli gratia, hodie pagina 2020 Olympia Aestiva "Tocio," inquit "in Iaponia erunt" -- id quod hodie recte dicitur. Anno 2020 autem verbum temporale in "sunt," tunc "erant" mutare necesse erit. Haud miror si plures tales paginae sunt. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 20:44, 2 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
An en:Template:Update after/de:Vorlage:Zukunft tempore futuro utilis erit? ;-) --UV (disputatio) 21:04, 2 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Certe, et translatio formulae mihi non difficilis videtur. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 21:34, 2 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Tales sententiae nonne praedictiones fere et auguria sonant? Cur non malumus scribere: "NN certo die certi anni constituit 2020 Olympia Aestiva Tocio in Iaponia habenda fore"? Hoc modo de facti nuntio scribitur, quod non, nisi augmentatione, mutari debebit solum propter tempus praeteriens. --Bavarese (disputatio) 12:07, 6 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Per me recte mones. A futuro indicativo abstinere oportet. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:54, 6 Septembris 2016 (UTC)

Cur "Save changes"?[fontem recensere]

Cur nunc in fonte recensendo pressorium anglice "Save changes" inscriptum est? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 22:44, 5 Septembris 2016 (UTC)

Est modificatio apud MediaWiki, ut videtur; modificavi nuntium "Savechanges" apud TranslateWiki ut similis sit nuntio "Publishchanges," ut supra consensimus. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 16:33, 6 Septembris 2016 (UTC)

Contributo dei lettori[fontem recensere]

EN: Hello everyone, in case you have not yet seen it, there is a page dedicated to discussing ideas for products, where readers can make contributions that are valuable to the mission and helpful to our editors. Please check and share your comments. Thanks!

IT: Ciao a tutti, probabilmente non l'avete ancora vista: c'è una pagina su mediawiki.org dedicata alla discussione di idee di progetti, nell'ambito dei quali i lettori possano fare dei contributi preziosi per la missione di Wikimedia e utili anche per gli editor. Dateci un'occhiata e aggiungete lì i vostri commenti. Grazie! --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 11:53, 9 Septembris 2016 (UTC)

(PS: Se può esservi utile per rispondere, provate a porvi questa semplice domanda: che tipo di compiti potrebbero essere intrapresi da lettori o contributori saltuari, e quali allo stesso tempo sono necessari (e ben accetti!) per gli editor? ----Elitre (WMF) (disputatio) 11:53, 9 Septembris 2016 (UTC) )

Quasi spam[fontem recensere]

This page consists mostly of technical notices from outside Vicipaedia. Would someone create a program to divert these notices to some other space, reserving Taberna for questions relating to Latin? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:13, 26 Septembris 2016 (UTC)

This is easy; we'd only have to change the delivery address at Meta. But what do others think? Is it convenient to have the Meta/Wikimedia/etc. technical news delivered here, or would others also prefer that those messages go elsewhere? It takes a matter of minutes to change, but let's get some degree of consensus first, shall we? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 21:57, 26 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
What's offputting is the mixing of technical notices with questions more traditionally discussed here. (If we respond to these notices, will the senders respond to us?) The texts don't read as if they're inviting discussion—which used to be the purpose of Taberna. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 00:13, 27 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Equidem hac in re Iacobo assentior. Neander (disputatio) 07:29, 27 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Ego quoque. Lesgles (disputatio) 09:18, 27 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Suntne qui non consentiunt, qui malunt talia hac in pagina legere? A. Mahoney (disputatio) 14:28, 27 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Novam paginam institui, Vicipaedia:Nuntii Technici nomine, et tabulas apud Metam mutavi. Ex hodie (ut spero), tales nuntios hanc in paginam ibunt. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:26, 27 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Subscriptores gratias tibi agimus! Neander (disputatio) 18:00, 27 Septembris 2016 (UTC)
Gratias tibi ago. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 21:05, 3 Octobris 2016 (UTC)
And it's working -- the first Tech News has just been delivered to Vicipaedia:Nuntii Technici! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 21:55, 3 Octobris 2016 (UTC)

Making it a quasi-formal notice, then ...[fontem recensere]

(someone should write this in Latin, too, obviously:)

Members of the lawiki community are encouraged also to put Vicipaedia:Nuntii Technici on their watchlists. Routine interwiki community messages are now being posted there instead of here.

StevenJ81 (disputatio) 14:45, 5 Octobris 2016 (UTC)

(Latine, ergo!)

Lectoribus, editoribus, magistratubus Vicipaediae paginam novam Vicipaedia:Nuntii Technici observare suadentur, ubi nuntii de MediaWiki necnon de Wikipediis omnibus nunc apparent.

A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:37, 5 Octobris 2016 (UTC)

vicus? oppidulum? oppidum? urbs?[fontem recensere]

Salvete! Quomodo discrimen facimus inter eiusmodi sedes hominum? Suntne praecepta tradita vel ab omnibus consensa, quid sit oppidum nominandum aut urbs etc.? Nam modo legens de urbe 7'133 habitantium (Bad Kötzting), haud mediocriter miratus urbem in oppidulum mutare ausus sum. Sed fortasse falso? --Bavarese (disputatio) 12:28, 3 Octobris 2016 (UTC)

Salve, equidem "oppidulum" non suaserim, nam aliquid vilificans in se habere videtur; fortasse potius oppidum parvum. ¶ Quod ad discrimen inter urbem et oppidum attinet, opinio solita est, urbem significare locum ampliorem qui maioris ponderis et gravitatis sit; oppidum autem locum minorem amplitudine et gravitate. Quam doctrinam subdubito, nam interdum auctores mixtim eundem locum urbem et oppidum dicunt, ut Caesar Alesiam (Gall. 7.68): "Vercingetorix copias suas [...] reduxit protinusque Alesiam, quod est oppidum Mandubiorum, iter facere coepit celeriterque impedimenta ex castris educi et se subsequi iussit. Caesar [...] altero die ad Alesiam castra fecit. perspecto urbis situ perterritisque hostibus, quod equitatu, qua maxime parte exercitus confidebant, erant pulsi, adhortatus ad laborem milites circumvallare instituit." Alia exempla apud Caesarem (Gergovia) et Ciceronem (Pherae). Apud Livium (42.36.1) etiam Roma oppidum appellatur, fortasse quod penetralia urbis significat, nescio. ¶ Mihi quidem videtur in praxi quemlicet locum vico minorem et urbem et oppidum dici posse, quamquam capita civitatum potius urbes dicuntur. At ipsa res digna est, quae ratione linguisticae textualis investigetur. Neander (disputatio) 19:33, 3 Octobris 2016 (UTC)
De hac re frequenter disputavimus. Vide, inter alia, Disputatio:Commune, Disputatio:Urbs, Disputatio:Vasilla et Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium 19#Categoria:Urbes Saxoniae Inferioris. --UV (disputatio) 21:17, 3 Octobris 2016 (UTC)

Developmental[fontem recensere]

What's the best Latin for this English adjective, as seen especially in the phrase developmental biology (i.e., biology having to do with the physical growth of plants and animals)? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:48, 20 Novembris 2016 (UTC)

Good question. To begin with, I suggest incrementum for 'development' which comes quite close, esp. as far as biology goes; cf. Cicero, de senectute 52: "Quid ego vitium ortus satus incrementa commemorem?" ("Why should I mention the origin, cultivation, and growth/development of the vine?") So, tentatively, biologia incrementi or biologia incrementalis. Neander (disputatio) 06:21, 22 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
Bingo! Let's go with that then. I'll soon be adding brief articles on fundamental concepts in that field, but even with terms created out of classical roots by well-intentioned scientists over the past 150 years, properly attested Latin versions haven't always come into view, so medically trained wikipedians may wish to make appropriate adjustments. Btw, in case anybody had been tempted by evolutionaria, developmental biology is not at all the same as evolutionary biology, for which biologia evolutionaria looks obvious. (In general, Vicipaedia's coverage of the "hard sciences" seems woefully weak; but that's a topic for another day.) Thanks, Neander! :) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:52, 22 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
Biologia nascendi, crescendi?Andreas Raether (disputatio) 16:34, 22 Novembris 2016 (UTC)

De paginis deletis[fontem recensere]

Non saepe ad disputationes tabernae huius contribui, sed hodie tamen rogo, cur tam multas paginas breves deleri oporteat; quibus paginis res reales descriptae sunt, quae etiam multis in aliis linguis describuntur, ut e.g. regiones. Cum sine fonte sint, censeo fontes addendas, non paginas delendas esse.--Schulz-Hameln (disputatio) 17:08, 3 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

Ego paginas fere 160 heri delevi, permultis paginis post quattuor menses "Augenda" rubricatis neque interdum auctis. Iam diu consentimus paginis nostris ad minimum textum utilem qui notabilitatem exprimat, nexum externum fidei dignum, nexus internos e pagina et in paginam, necesse. Si una res carebat, non delevi, sed si duae seu tres res carebant, multis casibus delevi nisi augere possem ego.
Tibi consentio, Schulz-Hameln, multo melius esset paginas augere, sed nemo auxit. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:25, 4 Decembris 2016 (UTC)
Ahem. Aliquis quem cognoscis res interdum addit, "ut stipula sit." Vide indices conlationum, e.g. hic.. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:36, 4 Decembris 2016 (UTC)
Ita, mi Iacobe. Et tu paginas saepissime auxisti. Tales labores laudeo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:47, 4 Decembris 2016 (UTC)
Scio te, sicut me, paginas multas ab aliis inceptas interdum auxisse, sed pauci sumus! Paginae inconsulte creatae valdeque imperfectae relictae, mense Iulio rubricatae, fere 300 erant.
Potes autem tu (magistratus enim es) aut paginas omnes quas delevi, aut paginas selectas quas augere vis, statim restituere. Vicipaediani singuli, quorum paginas imperfectas delevi, nonnunquam restitutionem postulant apud paginam disputationis meam: statim semper restituo. Omnis Vicipaedianus insuper potest paginas usque adhuc imperfectas, recentius rubricatas, reperire: videte Categoria:Augenda a mense Iulii 2016 et categorias tales mensium insequentium quas sub Categoria:Corrigenda invenitis. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:25, 4 Decembris 2016 (UTC)
Ego quidem sic censeo: Ut sciamus, an quaedam pagina delenda an servanda sit, non magnitudinem eius vel fontes spectemus, sed deliberemus, an res hac pagina descripta aliqui momenti sit, an e.g. in multis aliis linguis descripta sit. Paginae brevissimae aliquando tempore futuro exornari licet. Quod brevissimae sint (ut e.g. de vicis urbis Novi Eburaci), damnum mea sententia non habet. Pauci sumus, qui in Vicipaedia scribimus. Quadecausa labor eorum - sit etiam parvus - non irritus sit. Numerus autem paginarum vicipaediae Latinae recentibus mensibus non auctus est, sed minuitur. Aliter censeo de paginis, quae res obscuras vel nulli momenti describunt.--Schulz-Hameln (disputatio) 09:04, 11 Decembris 2016 (UTC)
Gratias tibi ago, Schulz-Hameln, propter responsum tuum. De re generali et graviori, politiam nostram duodecim menses consecuti, fine huius anni imminente, commenta aliorum fortasse exspectemus. (Eis mensibus numerum paginarum nostrarum non pauciorem sed fere aequalem reporto.)
De vicis burgi Manhatae: Censeo Helveticum nostrum opera sua de his vicis anno 2011 incepisse et subito abrupisse. Vicis enim fere 85 enumeratis, plurimas paginas de hac re nunquam creavit, nisi fallor. Paginas fere 25 repperi omnes brevissimas, nonnullas imperfectas et sine fontibus. Harum ultimarum fere 10 (?) delevi. Fere 15, paginae perfectae sed perbreves, manent. De vicis urbium fortasse tu et ego aliter censemus -- haud scio! Mea enim mente, non omnes vici notabiles sunt semperque auctori oportet notabilitatem verbatim exprimere. Sed certe omni magistratu licet paginas quas delevi restituere, omnique Vicipaediano licet augere; quo facto, gaudebo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:43, 11 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

Fines regionum novarum Franciae[fontem recensere]

In corrigendo paginam urbis Compendii vidi, ut in tabula Franciae, quam capsa monstrat, fines regionum priorum adhuc indicantur et non illae novarum. Aditum ad hanc capsam nescio. Num quis adiuvare potest? Gratissimus ei essem! Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 15:21, 11 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

Difficile! Nobis necesse est tabula, eisdem mensuris quibus File:Carte France geo.png, sed limites regionum novarum monstrans, ut in Formula:Frageoloc inseramus. Id quod nondum apud Communia repperi ...
Mihi videtur alias quasdam Vicipaedias eandem imaginem veterem etiam hodie monstrare, eadem ratione ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:13, 11 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

Heidelberga: hospes vias[fontem recensere]

Ante tres annos in disputatione paginae Heidelberga rogavi, quid istis vocabulis aenigmaticis exprimatur. Nullo responso adhuc accepto mi liceat illam quaestionem hoc loco repetere. --Bavarese (disputatio) 20:09, 16 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

Ad hanc rem respondere non possum! Nihilominus in paginam disputationis respectivam verba vagantia scripsi :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:40, 17 Decembris 2016 (UTC)
Haec verba dubia (sc. hospes vias) in aliis quoque paginis , e. g. Manhemium reperiuntur. Verendum est, ne pluries scripta sint. Estne nobis aliquod instrumentum, quo, si alicubi adhibita sint, indagari possint? --Bavarese (disputatio) 12:19, 21 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

Pugiles ~ pyctae[fontem recensere]

What's the difference between these terms? and why are there categories for each of them? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:48, 20 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

When occurring with pugil, pyctes denotes a boxer who fights in the Greek manner, and pugil one who fights in the Roman manner. --Maria.martelli (disputatio) 18:26, 20 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

We will be deleting the pyctae Category as it is redundant with the pugil category. I would like to assume everyone is ok with this.--Jondel (disputatio) 15:02, 31 Decembris 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to Iacobus for pointing this out and Martelli for elucidating! :)--Jondel (disputatio) 02:13, 9 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

de communibus Franciae[fontem recensere]

Many of our articles about French communes had a weblink to insee.fr (the French national statistics agency). I have now created Formula:INSEE commune, and (with the help of User:UVbot) I have converted all those weblinks to use Formula:INSEE commune, in total more than 34 400. This now allows us to better check the consistency of our data against Wikidata:

  • I have found ~300 articles about communes that were connected to the wrong wikidata item, and I have corrected all of them;
  • I have found 764 articles (listed at Categoria:Error formulae INSEE commune, which makes roughly 2% of the total number of 34 400 articles) where the commune ID in our article is different from the commune ID available at Wikidata. I have the strong suspicion that in all those 764 cases we are wrong and Wikidata is correct (example: our article Amfreville-la-Campagne wrongly links to 27017 [Angerville] where it should instead link to 27011 [Amfreville]), but I do not have the means to check all those 764 cases individually. I therefore propose that I use UVbot to change whatever (probably wrong) commune ID we currently use in those 764 articles to the (probably correct) commune ID available at Wikidata. Comments? Objections? --UV (disputatio) 23:58, 8 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Keep up the good work UV!  :) --Jondel (disputatio) 02:12, 9 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Macte! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 04:41, 9 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sure you should go ahead. I know there have been many small errors in our French commune pages, which were created at astonishing speed. In this case the bots that added data to Wikidata are likely to have done it right in nearly every case, so, although after your work we might end up with one error or two, that will be far fewer than we have now. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:51, 9 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Gratias ob responsa vobis ago, paginas mutavi. --UV (disputatio) 18:00, 22 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

Wildlife[fontem recensere]

What's the best Latin word or phrase for English wildlife? Cassell's says plain fera, -ae (sc. bestia) is OK for wild animal ; for wildlife, that might in turn give us ferae, -arum. Is anything better? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 01:25, 10 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

I have used "silvaticus", and, now that you've made me look it up, I still think it's OK. Used by good authors when speaking of boars, mice and plants; translated "wild" in Lewis & Short. I think the neuter plural "silvatica -orum" would work for "things in the wild, wildlife" in general. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:40, 10 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Ferae, plurale collectivum, etiam ab aliis (sicut Pitkäranta, Vilborg) suadetur, sed sine dubio etiam consilium Andreae utile est. Apud Varronem (Rust. 2.9.2) etiam dictionem q.e. bestiae silvestres repperi. Neander (disputatio) 15:59, 10 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

Calendarium non iam valens[fontem recensere]

In paginis singulorum dierum anni per formulam "Calendarium" calendarium mensile anni 2005 apparet. Nonne possibile est, ut formula uteremur, quae quotannis automatice calendarium anni praesentis monstrat? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 08:59, 14 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

Difficile est sed fortasse formulas corrigendas alicui placet. Duodecim sunt: Calendarium-Ianuarii usque ad Calendarium-Decembris, ubi dies mensis anni 2005 scribuntur; formulae quam minime callidae sunt. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 20:44, 18 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
There are some templates on Simple English Wikipedia I could bring over. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 23:50, 18 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Formulas mutavi. Nunc, ut suasisti, Bis-Taurine, automatice calendarium anni praesentis monstrant. --UV (disputatio) 23:29, 23 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Maximas tibi gratias ago, UV, quia hunc laborem peregisti! Facile enim est desiderium praesentare, difficilius rem facere. Salve! Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 05:54, 25 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Optime! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:27, 25 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Speaks Your Language[fontem recensere]

Wiki Speaks Your Language logo.svg

Hello all and sorry for writing this message in English. It is my pleasure to inform you about the launch of the Wiki Speaks Your Language initiative with the goal of enriching the Wikimedia projects with freely licenced audio (and video) files documenting spoken examples of every language, language variety and dialect in the world.

The idea originates from the curiosity of many readers viewing language articles not only to read about the language but also to hear how does it sound. In most of the cases, our language articles lack such files and readers usually end up searching videos on YouTube, notwithstanding that we have the capacity as a movement and the resources to meet their wish.

The initiative lists three possible ways of acquiring the freely licenced audio (and video) files: 1) by adapting existing audio and video files on Wikimedia Commons (mostly from the Spoken Wikipedia projects), 2) by liberating existing audio and video files from the repositories of GLAM and educational institutions, and 3) by engaging Wikimedia communities, GLAM and educational institutions in the recording of new audio and video files.

In the first phase of the initiative, the easiest way to start is by working with the resources we already have and therefore my proposal and kind request to the Latin Wikipedia community is to get involved in adapting existing videos from the Spoken Wikipedia project. There are some useful tips on what the existing files should be adapted to. The adapted files should be categorised under "Category:Wiki Speaks Latin", tagged with WSYL template and added to the list of languages.

Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (disputatio) 15:14, 15 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)

For starters: which pronunciation is to be used? Two divergent sets are predominant: the reconstructed classical pronunciation (as the language was spoken by the most prestigious speakers in the first centuries BC and AD) and "church Latin" (more or less the modern Italian tradition, as used in the Roman Catholic Church). Traces of lesser traditions, like the English national pronunciation (which was standard in academia in English-speaking countries until well into the nineteenth century), remain. For example, the word videlicet 'to-wit' in those three traditions, transcribed in Associated Press phonetics, not the IPA, might be:
wee-deh-lee-ket
vee-deh-lee-chet
vye-da-lye-set
And acetum 'vinegar':
uh-keh-tooh
uh-cheh-too-muh
uh-see-d'm
And then so-called vulgar (unprestigious and quite common) pronunciations in "classical times" are known to have had their own quirks. ¶ Most academicians would probably recommend the reconstructed classical pronunciation, but many students (of all sorts) who try to recreate it on the internet consistently fail, most notably perhaps in not accommodating a distinction between short & long vowels and a distinction between single & double consonants, as in the first example your link leads to. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:00, 15 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Your first example sounds like an attempt coming from South Asia (which would be fine in itself, if only the substrate weren't intruding so blatantly), and it's far too halting & wrong to be useful; aside from ignoring the length of vowels & double consonants, in the first few seconds alone it stresses the wrong syllable of libera and Christianorum and numerum. Your third example isn't wholly in Latin: it's in alternating Latin & French, and the accent is so thick that the Latin sounds like French. And it stresses the wrong syllable of Aesopus. If it can't pronounce Aesop's name right, what good is it? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:15, 15 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
The most consistently competent of your (six) examples is the last, which is both on and in the modern ecclesiastical pronunciation. Of course it would have the living Cicero rolling in the aisles with laughter (or pain), but that's a different point. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:35, 15 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
I agree that the present examples are not very promising, and I think the file should be removed from Ecclesia Catholica Romana (apart from sounding amateurish, it's also more than ten years old). But I don't think we should dismiss the possibility of including spoken versions, if they are fluent enough and the pronunciation corresponds to one of the commonly used norms. Perhaps there are people out there who would like to listen to a Vicipaedia article on their daily jog. :) Lesgles (disputatio) 11:25, 16 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Yes, but it could be useful to disabuse the OP of his assumption that the problem has a simple solution. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:12, 16 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
I guess it's not so very likely that Kiril Simeonovski will be back to read all this, because he will simply have been circulating a message to all Wikis at the same time.
The files you're talking about were criticised here ten years ago, and would no doubt be better deleted, but, since they are on Commons, that's not likely to happen unless they are directly replaced. So, yes, we want a volunteer to voice new versions superseding those very files ... please! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:33, 16 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
As a singer, most of whose direct experience with Latin is through music (and used Church pronunciation), I would add that it may well be that some articles (those on ancient Rome, for example), are better pronounced classically, while other articles (those on the Church, for example) are better pronounced ecclesiastically. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:35, 16 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
A valid argument! I went ahead and removed the link on Ecclesia Catholica Romana for the reasons above, since no one seemed attached to it. Lesgles (disputatio) 20:01, 16 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
Regarding replacing those faulty pronunciation files, if one of you is thinking of attempting this, you may be interested in a tool I made for this purpose, automating away some of the repetitive labor involved (recording, saving, converting, naming). It is called Pronuncify, and is available in a command-line version (which also supports automatic uploading to Commons), or a Windows GUI version. If you do end up using it, I'd love to hear about it (and might be tempted to help). Ijon (disputatio) 00:22, 3 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
I would try it, but both our PCs run Windows 10, which is not yet supported. Maybe someone else could? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:11, 3 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

decumulator[fontem recensere]

Salvete. Cupidus addiscendi aliquid, vocabulo decumulator nonnullis in paginis (tantum Nuadaneis?) reperto, quaero a vobis, quae sit vis et testificatio huius vocis. (Agitur de aquis superfluentibus vel per canales deducendis, non de rebus pecuniariis.) --Bavarese (disputatio) 18:50, 3 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Preferentiae[fontem recensere]

In preferentiis scriptum video
"Change or remove your e-mail address"
Potest-ne id traducere? Gratias ago. --Vogand (disputatio) 10:44, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Nonne pagina usoris publica tamquam est?[fontem recensere]

Pagina usoris HunteWinchester123 ad deletionem proposui, quia mihi et probabiliter maiori parti lectorum fastidio est neque aliquid personale (nisi fortasse notionem) usoris continet. Usor ille in pagina usoris mea nunc planxit.[3] Linguam Latinam conoscere non videtur. Qualis est opinio vestra? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 11:24, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Nonne paginae usoris in Vicipaedia (re vera in omnibus Wikipediis) ad usum conlatorum constitutae sunt? Qui apud nos res encyclopaedicas confert, conlator est et iure suam paginam usoris administrat. Qui non, inter conlatores non est numerandus nec dignus est, cui spatium apud nos concedatur. Neander (disputatio) 14:20, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Garry Marshall[fontem recensere]

O magistratus, ne bellum editoriale ad infinitum pergat, si vobis placet, protegite commentarium Garry Marshall. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:20, 13 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Paginam semi-protegit, spero fore ut bellum finiatur! Lesgles (disputatio) 16:23, 13 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Genitivus absolutus?[fontem recensere]

In pagina prima infra diem currentem haec "sententia" scripta est: "126 212 paginarum Latine scriptarum." Id mihi bonum Latinum non videtur. A quo hic genitivus dependet? Genitivum absolutum non nisi in lingua Graeca cononsco. Nonne melius esset scribere "Adhuc N.N. paginae Latinae conscriptae sunt." Quid est opinio vestra? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 09:57, 18 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Bis-Taurine, non de genetivo absoluto sed de genetivo partitivo hic agi videtur, sed cum suspiciosus es in hanc dictionem, rem acu tangis. Si numerus paginarum 126 000 esset, recte "centum viginti sex milia paginarum" diceretur, sed ut primum numerus miliarius numeris 1-999 superatur, genetivo non utimur. Itaque numerus paginarum q.e. 126 212 dicitur: "centum viginti sex milia ducentae duodecim paginae". Neander (disputatio) 13:26, 18 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
Gildersleeve #293: "If a smaller number comes between, the substantive usually follows the smaller number." Exemplum de numero 3500 =
tria milia quingenti equites
tria milia equitum et quingenti
equites tria milia quingenti
equitum tria milia quingenti
"But duo milia quingenti hostium in acie periere, L. XXII. 7, 3." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 22:47, 18 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
Utique ratio et consuetudo ex Liv. 29.25.2 apparet: "alibi decem milia peditum, duo milia et ducentos equites ... in naves imposita invenio." At non est difficile in varietates incidere, sicut "sagittarios ... tria milia" (Caes. B.C. 3.4.3); et contra: "equitum mille" (Caes. B.C. 3.84.4), "hominum mille" (Cic. Mil. 53), "mille equorum" (Liv. 23.49.11), etc. Neander (disputatio) 07:14, 19 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
Vide etiam disputationem priorem. Equidem hic nominativo faveo. Lesgles (disputatio) 09:16, 19 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

De formulis mutandis[fontem recensere]

Ubi vel quo in loco aptissime de formulis mutandis disputari potest si quid de quo dubitatur in oculos incurrit? Nigidiolus (disputatio) 16:30, 18 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Salve, Nigidiole. Quas formulas mutare vis? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:38, 18 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Salve tu quoque. Dico formulam In progressu, in qua verbum usque ponitur in sensum adhuc usque vel etiam nunc. Aut fallor? Quod ad mores Vicipaedianos attinet, certe tiro sum, verbum autem usque solitarium in hunc sensum positum in operibus Romanis Ciceronis temporum nondum vidi. Cum usque ita ponitur, tum in sensum sine intermissione, incessanter vel per totum tempus in actibus qui aliquamdiu tenent. At hoc notavi, cum materiam quae ad Vicipaediam Latinam administrandam pertinet casu et fortuito legerem, neque quemquam stulte rogando obtundere volo. Nigidiolus (disputatio) 10:27, 20 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Optime. Si verba talis formulae rescribere vis, tibi licet sine metu paginam Formula:In progressu mutare. Omnis usor recensere potest. Si autem incertus es opinionesque aliorum postulare vis, utile erit disputationem incipere apud Disputatio Formulae:In progressu. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:41, 20 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Obiter dictum[fontem recensere]

I replaced the "non-stipula" template with a move-to-Wiktionary. What's here is a dicdef, so this should probably be moved. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 18:09, 24 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

Victionarium is not very active. For Latin phrases we have at least one other option, which is to merge each non-stipula about a phrase to an alphabetical list of phrases. Two possible benefits: we build up a fuller and more useful list of Latin phrases with definitions; we have an easy format for citing sources for each of them whenever someone has time (I wouldn't know how to do that on Victionarium).
I speak as one who doesn't understand the value of the multiple Wiktionaries as currently designed. I can't see why anyone would use them. So I could just possibly be biased :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:40, 26 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
That Obiter dictum is a "regular" article in seventeen other wikis, including most of the major ones, might be an argument in favor of leaving it where it stands. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:31, 26 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
Yes, that's another option! One might improve it by citing a source or two.
First used in English text, so far as the OED knows, by Thomas Jefferson. That seems worth saying, so I'll say it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:19, 26 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
"Obiter dictum" mea quoque opinione ratio iuridica est, quae eadem modo ac in aliis wikipediis hic explicari debet. Ex hac scilicet termino technico postea orta est phrasis, quae "in transitu dicere" significat. Qui usus "phrasticus" per me in Victionario inseri potest, quamquam Andreae de utilitate Victionarii dubitanti facile assentior. Neander (disputatio) 15:24, 26 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
All fine with me. I was just trying to rescue it from the land of the non-stipula. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:48, 27 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

New template {{Notae}}[fontem recensere]

When "subst"-ed in, this just drops a "Notae" section, along with a div for references-small. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 16:56, 27 Februarii 2017 (UTC)

It works fine for single-column notes, but we apparently still have to use the old system for multicolumn notes. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:02, 27 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
Eventually I can get it to do that. For immediate purposes, I was thinking more of non-stipula articles where I can drop in a quick reference or two and save from oblivion. I'll keep it in mind. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 21:07, 27 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
Yes, that's fine. Getting the non-stipulas up to speed is a good idea. All it takes is often a footnote or a bibliographic entry. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:10, 27 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
This formula adds an unwanted extra line below any listed items. Could that line be globally deleted? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:39, 14 Martii 2017 (UTC)
I think I've cured that. If not, Steven will no doubt intervene.
The instruction on the formula page is not to write Notae but subst:Notae within the curly brackets (hence Steven's use of the word "subst" above). There is a difference (though the result looks the same on the reading screen), and we may want to discuss which way of using this formula is preferable. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:05, 14 Martii 2017 (UTC)
As Steven suggested, this template should in my view be subst:ed (either by a user or by a bot - UVbot could from time to time subst: all occurrences). I do not see the advantage of keeping this template call around – == Notae == <references /> (see the subsection below on a proposal to retire the <div class="references-small"></div> part) is not much more complex and conveys its meaning much more clearly compared to a {{Notae}} template call. --UV (disputatio) 21:50, 14 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Formatting of the references section[fontem recensere]

Across our articles, the references section is currently not formatted in a uniform manner:

  • Many articles use <div class="references-small"><references /></div>, which produces a
    slightly smaller font size
    compared to the normal font size;
  • some articles use normal <references /> (normal font size),
  • a few articles use a fixed number of columns for a multi-column layout of references.

As it was announced yesterday on Vicipaedia:Nuntii Technici#Tech News: 2017-11, the MediaWiki software now allows a so-called responsive design for the references section: When this feature is enabled, it will automatically show the references in a multi-column layout when screen width is large and in a single-column layout when screen width is small. This feature is currently not the default on la.wikipedia, but if there is consensus among us, it can be enabled as the default on la.wikipedia.

Question 1: Should the responsive design for the references section be made the default on la.wikipedia? (My personal view: Yes.)

As to the font size: Do we really need the normal font size for references anywhere? If not, we could make the smaller font size the default for all references, and we could omit typing <div class="references-small"></div> (and we could remove this code from {{Notae}}).

Question 2: Should the smaller font size currently produced by typing <div class="references-small"></div> be made the default for all references? (My personal view: Yes.)

Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 21:50, 14 Martii 2017 (UTC)

The "responsive" format for notes would give a two-column layout for notes whenever suited to the user's screen (which I like: it is a better use of space), so I feel favourable towards question 1.
I also like a smaller font for notes throughout (they are always supplementary to the text, and often contain detailed references which not every reader needs) so I would answer yes to question 2 as well, but, as UV says, this is a separate issue. The wikipedias are ever tending towards fuller citation of sources, which means that, if the notes are at full size, they can almost overwhelm the page in some cases. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:54, 15 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Concinimus! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:05, 15 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Sic. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 16:31, 15 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Yes on both. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:10, 16 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for your replies. I have now made the change described in question 2 (no need to write <div class="references-small"></div> any more!) and I have now requested the change described in question 1. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:07, 18 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Whenever you edit a page, it is safe always to change <div class="references-small"><references /></div> to just <references />. While it would be easy for UVbot to perform this change everywhere, I guess this task alone is not worth 27538 bot edits (this is the number that a search for "references-small" gives). --UV (disputatio) 21:39, 19 Martii 2017 (UTC)
The requested change has been made. Reference lists containing more than ten references will now be automatically formatted in two or three columns when screen width is large. For an example, see Sebastianus Erizzo#Notae. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 00:10, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Macte! Lesgles (disputatio) 09:40, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)
How large is "large"? The window I use for Vicipaedia is 13.5 inches wide, and the first line of the first footnote of Sebastianus Erizzo#Notae is:
Forma Italiana mihi quidem praevertenda videtur ; raro enim et varie nomen latinizatum est: in catalogo collectorum numismatum Huberti Goltzii(1563)
(Yes, that's all one line on my screen.) Yet the references have not divided themselves into two or three columns. ¶ Why the restriction of "more than ten"? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:27, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
On the question "why no 2-column layout at Sebastianus Erizzo#Notae", I see an answer. You (and I) are near the limit at which it switches from 1 column to 2 columns. I usually read the Vicipaedia site at 90% standard font size, and I see 2 columns. But if I increase my screen font size to 110% I only see one column. If I decrease to 50% I see four columns (but, no good, I can't read them). [It also depends on the width of the window. Damn clever.] You might want to experiment with that if your browser makes it easy. UV may also have a comment.
With a small font size, very long lines are always more difficult to read, so instead of a restriction of "more than ten" it might be better to have no restriction at all. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:39, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
But how about Ioannes Stuart Mill? I've tried maximum window size (almost 50 cm) and gradually switched the font size from default to so small that I can hardly read the text, yet I fail to get the 2-column layout. It looks like the "responsiveness" is irresponsibly low. I've also tried various browsers. Neander (disputatio) 16:14, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Yes, on that page I get the same result as you. I don't know why. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:31, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
The restriction of "more than ten" (I personally would rather have chosen "more than three" instead) is currently hard-coded in the MediaWiki software, so alas it is not easy for us to change.
The article Ioannes Stuart Mill was last edited before responsive references were activated, so it still showed the old form. I have now purged the article ("null edit": click on "edit", then click on "save" without changing anything), and now the references show up as responsive in this article for me. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 18:58, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
With responsive references, minimum column width is currently set to 35 em (see en:Em (typography)). So, roughly, when the available width is less than 70 em, there will be one column, for more than 70 em up to 105 em, there will be two columns, for more than 105 em up to 140 em, there will be three columns and so on. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 19:06, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
It seems still not to be working. The following 70 ems

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

all fit on one line on my screen, but the references are not automatically being formatted in two columns. Try setting the column width differently? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:43, 6 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)
Below, do you see only one column or more than one?
  1. A
  2. B
  3. C
  4. D
  5. E
  6. F
  7. G
  8. H
  9. I
  10. J
  11. K
  12. L
  13. M
  14. N
  15. O
If you just see one column, then you are probably using an old browser that does not understand setting the minimum column width to a certain number of ems, and you might want to consider to update your browser.
If you see more than one column here, the probable cause is that 70 em is a bit more than the width of 70 "M"s ... Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 16:58, 6 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)
I'm seeing five columns, of three items each. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:33, 6 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)
Ok, then the probable cause is that 70 em is a bit more than the width of 70 "M"s. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 21:54, 6 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)
Why not then change the limit so that more viewers will automatically see two (or more) columns? Leaving all that white space in the notes is bad typography. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:49, 7 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)
Yes, we could change the minimum column width from 70 em to e.g. 50 em. This would introduce a slight formatting descrepancy compared to the formatting at most other wikipedias, but it would be an easy thing to do. --UV (disputatio) 19:21, 9 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)

For reference[fontem recensere]

For reference, here are the notes in the article on Cassius Dio as they're automatically displayed on my screen (except that in number 12, the text from the start all the way to and including Dion is on one line):

Notae [recensere | fontem recensere]
1. ↑ Hist. Rom LXXIII.12.
2. ↑ Der Neue Pauly, Stuttgardiae 1999, T. 2, c. 1014-1015
3. ↑ Cassius Dio, Historia Romana 73.23.
4. ↑ Litsch (1893), Kyhnitzsch (1894) etc.
5. ↑ XXXVIII.39-46.
6. ↑ BG I.40.
7. ↑ Qui fuerit vel an omnino fuerit difficile dictu est.
8. ↑ XXXVIII.18-30.
9. ↑ LIII.19.
10. ↑ XXXVII.52-53.
11. ↑ XXXVII.47-48
12. ↑ Freyburger‑Galland M.L. (2003), « La conception de l’histoire chez Dion Cassius », in Grecs et Romains aux prises avec l'histoire p.109. Cf ibidem Guy Lachenaud, "Dion
Cassius homme de culture ou plagiaire impénitent", pp.97-108.
13. ↑ Nobis respublica Romana oligarchia potius quam democratia fuisse videtur, sed Dio aliter sentiebat.
14. ↑ Cassius Dio, Historia Romana 73.23, cf. 75.3.

IMHO, this is too much white space. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:10, 12 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)

How best to acknowledge translations[fontem recensere]

Some time ago, we had a discussion on acknowledging translations: Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium 17#Acknowledging translations. When translating an article from another wikipedia, it is legally required to attribute the original text to the original authors. On the different ways how this can be done, see en:Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia, in particular en:Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia#Proper attribution.

Over the last few years, we have mostly either, when creating our translated article, added an edit summary like "translated from en:Original article, see the page history there for attribution to authors", or we have added {{Attributio}} to the talk page of our translated article. (I do not recall anyone actually copying the edit history of the original article, preserving the author names, to the talk page of our translated article.)

While the two methods that we currently use are reasonably ok as long as the original article is accessible, I was recently made aware of the fact that in case the original article ever gets deleted or moved out of sight for whatever reason, both the edit summary method and the {{Attributio}} method described above would not work any more (as they would not any more show the names of the original authors), which would turn our translated article into a license violation and therefore a copyright violation.

I was pointed at the Import feature that can prevent such a result, especially when it is used to import the source article to la.wikipedia before starting to translate it. (Importing a source article when we already have a translated article is much trickier.) You can see the results of importing an article by looking at the edit history of Basilius Pandžić (currently the only import ever on la.wikipedia): The page's revision history now starts with edits that were in fact made not on la.wikipedia, but on hr.wikipedia. Currently, only meta:Stewards can import articles to la.wikipedia. If, however, there is consensus here, this feature can be enabled for Vicipaedia:Magistratus (and possibly for individual trusted users who regularly create articles by translating them from other wikipedias) as well. What do you think about this feature? Do you think we should request for the Import feature to be enabled here, or should we continue with the status quo (and risk having to delete an article when the source article gets deleted or moved out of sight)? --UV (disputatio) 00:00, 5 Martii 2017 (UTC)

I was extremely puzzled when I saw the log record for Basilius Pandžić, but then I saw that UV had had a hand in it, so I thought "It must be all right and all will become clear". Thank you very much for explaining! I now see the reason for that import.
I can speak neutrally because I really never translate an article from a single source, not even as a beginning. (For full disclosure, I am a qualified translator, and I do translate for other purposes.) But I'm a magistratus, so, if the feature is enabled, I would be able to do this for others. So if Iacobus asked me to import an article from en:wiki for him to work on, I could do it (I use you as an example, mi Iacobe, because I know that you work like this: you start articles by translating from the English article. Others do too, of course.)
So in that way the history of contributions preceding the act of translation would be all listed here. Including a vast number of completely irrelevant edits, because they will have been made and unmade many years before the act of translation, and nobody on Vicipaedia ever saw them. That's even the case with the Basilius Pandžić history: I was asking myself as I looked through that history, "Was this ever here? Did these edits appear in "Nuper mutata"? No, they didn't. OK, the irrelevance of ancient article histories doesn't matter, and correcct attribution does matter. I see that.
A problem is that in this way we facilitate the spreading here of articles that are not in Latin. This is confusing for us active Vicipaedians (who try to maintain a Latin encyclopedia) and confusing for readers. But of course it already happens: people copy to us non-Latin text, or text that only they believe is Latin, and we have to assess it and sometimes delete it.
I have to go and chop wood now ... my thoughts will continue ...
... and my thoughts have crystallised into a question. Considering (1) the legal requirement for attribution stated above by UV, and (2) the steady increase in unreadable machine-translated new articles (obviously based on en: or another Wikipedia and therefore in breach of the attribution requirement), is it a possible way forward (a) to prevent article creation by anonymous users (en:wiki has done this for many years), and (b) not to allow article creation by translation except using this import routine, and (c) importing into userspace as a first step, from which any user could move the article into mainspace when it's in Latin? (With the assurance, mi Iacobe and all others affected, that a user could always have any number of articles imported, to work on at leisure, just by asking.)
... and another question. UV might know. Can we potentially assign import rights to trusted users who are not magistratus? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:34, 5 Martii 2017 (UTC)
The chances that I'll be making a Latin adaptation of an article in the English wiki that's going to be deleted over there are quite low, practically indistinguishable from zero (one should think). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:34, 5 Martii 2017 (UTC)
That's quite true! One should keep a sense of proportion, as you rightly imply ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:55, 5 Martii 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Iacobus that when translating articles that have a low risk to get deleted (or to get moved out of sight), our current practice of either using an appropriate edit summary or placing {{Attributio}} on the talk page is probably fine.
To answer Andrew's last question first: Yes, we could have import rights assigned to trusted users who are not magistratus. Upon our community consensus on whom to grant which rights, meta:Stewards can add users to our (currently empty) Transwiki importers group (members of this group can directly import articles from other wikipedias – a feature that is not too difficult to use) or even to our (currently empty) Importers group (members of this group can – just like members of the Transwiki importers group – directly import articles from other wikipedias, and can a well "import by upload" – a feature that should better only be used by people who are familiar with XML and know exactly what they are doing).
The "content translation" tool automatically adds a (more or less) appropriate edit summary that links to the original article, see e. g. the revision history of our article Tottenhamia. So for articles created using the "content translation" tool, the attribution requirement is probably met as long as the original article and its edit history remain accessible. The fact that the "content translation" tool itself does not provide for automatically importing the original article is maybe a hint that we might, in many cases, live fine without importing the original article.
While it is technically possible to prevent article creation by anonymous users (enwiki is an example), I currently do not believe that this is the way we should go, as it raises a barrier for casual readers to become contributors, and not all pages created by anonymous users are useless.
When importing an article, it is possible to specify the namespace to import to, so yes, importing into userspace is possible. --UV (disputatio) 14:08, 5 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Please note, that the Content Translation Tool "supports" a possible copyright violation because the contributors to the article are linked only, but if the source article has been deleted (there exists any reasons) the link will fail and all the contributors cannot be listed any more. If a user wants to translate an article, he should call for an import of the source revisions, best into the user's namespace. The page can be moved into main namespace then. I am a very trusty importer at German wikipedia and have very much experience with transwiki imports and import uploads. Note, that a partition of one article to two and a unification of two articles to one often need a revision import too to avoid a copyright violation. Thank you, Doc Taxon (disputatio) 14:57, 5 Martii 2017 (UTC)
If we are going to start making use of the Transwiki importers group, we may wish to develop a consensus that local sysops be able to add and remove people from this group. This is not a right that we ought to have to run to stewards for all the time. I would also probably add the rights autopatrol, patrol and rollback to this group.
Note: I would not do the same for Importers group. Nobody should be placed in this group who is not already in the previous group, and being in this group should only be for as long as necessary to accomplish the task. That is normal practice where that right is concerned. Disclaimer: I'm not a candidate for either group on this wiki, so I'm a disinterested observer. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:07, 7 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Qua de causa paginae mensualis versio in pagina prima differt?[fontem recensere]

Miror qui fiat, ut pagina quae tamquam pagina huius mensis ostenditur quaeque de urbe Roma scripta est, si eam cum pagina ipsa de Roma comparaveris, non eadem esse videatur quae per nexum '...' infra sermonem situm aditur (etenim recens mutata non habet.) Nigidiolus (disputatio) 03:17, 8 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Hoc accidit quia textus brevis ad paginam mensis praeponendum die fere ultimo anterioris mensis praeparatur (a me, hoc tempore). Mutationes paucas facere soleo (e.g. notas subiunctas e textu praeponendo deleo). Ab eo die textus praepositus a textu paginae normalis differre potest. Si quis corrigere vult, certe potest paginam normalem et textum praepositum corrigere ... per editiones duas. Vide s.t.p. Vicipaedia:Pagina mensis, et, ut textum praepositum corrigas, i ad Formula:PaginaMensis/Martii 2017. Ibi emenda sine metu! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:44, 8 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Correxi. Neander (disputatio) 15:57, 8 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Mutata inutilia[fontem recensere]

Redirects to years[fontem recensere]

User 153.107.192.210 has made about sixteen curious & unexplained redirects. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:57, 9 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Bella editorialia[fontem recensere]

It looks as if Magna Curalii Obex and Mechanica Newtoniana need to be protected from anonymous contributors: the one (160.39.133.16‎) insists that the Great Barrier Reef is no more, and the other (158.129.160.173‎) keeps inserting gibberish. Also, the latter has been bothering Leges Keplerianae. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:02, 9 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago, mi Iacobe. Protexi, correxi. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:37, 9 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Furor intus sedens vinctus aenis nodis[fontem recensere]

Veniam quaeso, o sodales, detis mihi, qui quaestionem non ad ipsam latinitatem pertinentem hic quaerere audeam. Quis non novit illam imaginem verbis gravibus a Vergilio pictam? imaginem dico horridi Furoris vincti aenis nodis sedentis super arma et frementis ore cruento in templo Belli clauso (Aeneis 1.293-296) Compagibus artis Belli portae clausae sunt. Id est: bellum in mundo est, per aliquantum temporis incarceratum. De hac fictione tracta est sententia theodisca de bello incepto: bellum erumpit (ein Krieg bricht aus), sc. e suo carcere, e suis vinculis. Cupidus sum discendi, utrum etiam vestris in linguis simili more ac modo, sc. dictione quasi vergiliana, dicatur de bello capto erumpente. --Bavarese (disputatio) 12:11, 12 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Anglice "war erupts" et "war breaks out" dicere possumus; dubito autem num Vergilius rei insit. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:50, 12 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Etiam Suecice "krig bryter ut"; Finnice autem non, nam "sota syttyy" ('bellum exardescit') dicitur. Neander (disputatio) 14:27, 12 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Anglice etiam nomen substantivum habemus, e locutione verbali derivatum, "outbreak (e.g. of war)". Quod substantivum ut videtur Shakesperius primus in Hamlet scripsit (sed non de bello), "the flash and out-break of a fiery mind". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:29, 12 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Punctum an non?[fontem recensere]

Dubium animadverto in subscriptionibus imaginum, quae sententiae non sunt. Ego enim punctum non scribo vel deleo sicut moris est in lingua Theodisca hodierna. IacobusAmor invicem punctum scribit vel adiungit.

Melius esset, si de hac re consensus fieri posset. Itaque disputationem inire volo. Quid censetis? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 22:46, 20 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Regarding dots at the end of picture captions, I have up to now tended to remove them when I encountered them, unless the picture caption forms a complete sentence. In my view, those dots are not necessary and do not contribute to readability (rather on the contrary). They are also not part of our style recommendations at Vicipaedia:Structura paginae or Vicipaedia:Imago. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 23:56, 20 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Et ego puncta removere soleo nisi sententiis plenis (verbo activo munitis) finem faciunt. Quae consuetudo cum regulis editurae Anglicis a me cognitis consonat et (quod maius interest) cum scriptoribus seu editoribus Latinis recentioribus, non omnibus sed permultis. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:18, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Pragmatically, every caption is a complete sentence, whether it displays a verb or not; so a caption that says merely "Ioannes Doe" = 'Hic est Ioannes Doe' vel 'Hic habes effigiem Ioannis Doe'. In many contexts of course, a terminal period (full stop) is usually omitted from a variety of identifying and explanatory material, as on tombstones, the title pages of books, the logotypes of newspapers, the nameplates of buildings, and often in published illustrative material. ¶ As with other typographical conventions, people will follow different traditions and have different preferences. The obvious answer is to set up a gadget to enable readers to choose the style they want: in the context of the last character of a fasciculus, those who want to see a period could choose the option that retains one where it's already coded or adds one where it's missing just before the closing "]]"; and those who don't want to see a period there could choose the option that suppresses one where it's already coded. ¶ An argument could be made for differential deployment of terminal periods in captions: that the captions of illustrations in the text should have them, and the captions of illustrations printed under the heading of "Pinacotheca" should not. ¶ Whether a "caption" is a single phrase (a "tag") or has extensive explanatory material may be a pertinent issue (see the indented examples below). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:55, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)

A caption, strictly speaking, is only the name of an illustration, and further material is called a legend. In US academic writing, the former doesn't take a period, but the latter does. Thus the rule given by the Chicago Manual of Style (the most influential styleguide in the humanities): "A period is not used after a caption set on a line by itself but is used if the caption and legend are run together." Here are two examples given in the styleguide (on halftone plates, captions are usually printed in SMALL CAPS, whereas legends are printed in (a perhaps smaller version of) the standard font):
¶ PLATE 2. WALL DRAWING of HUNTSMEN ← No period. (Note the SMALL CAPS; why thus? because it's a caption printed on a plate)
¶ Fig. 2. Photomicrographs of mouse-radius rudiments. A, left radius cultivated for 3 days in PTE; . . . C, left radius cultivated for 2 days in PTE. ← Period. (Here, the matter that's functioning as a caption—"Photomicrographs . . . rudiments"—is printed as if it were part of the legend, which begins with the italic A, and the caption is separated from the legend by a period; it could just as well—or perhaps better!—end in a colon instead.)
Naturally, to casual readers, the variability of the deployment of a period shown in the examples above looks inconsistent, and so some blatant regularity might be preferred (with a gadget for the finicky). ¶ The same concern applies to entries in bibliographies and footnotes, where the closing period is mandatory and nonnegotiable in American academic writing; but that's perhaps a question for another day. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:15, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Well, maybe it's part of the same question. We all differ in our preferences on these issues. There are various models we can follow, but they also differ! I can imagine a guideline not unlike that on en:wiki about the choice between British and American English: I can imagine saying that whoever creates a page, and whoever undertakes a complete revision of a page, can choose a consistent format for captions, notes, references, and that those who make minor edits should prefer to maintain an existing format. Would that work, or not? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:31, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)
I'm still waiting for a printed edition of Wikipedia with separate plates for pictures, preferably with that thin protective paper you see in old books. :) Lesgles (disputatio) 09:25, 22 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Iacobus proposed a gadget that would add or remove periods from image captions. It is not difficult to create a gadget that adds a period (when it is not present already) – I have now created such a gadget and you can, if you wish, enable it in your preferences ("Addere punctum (.) in fine imaginis descriptionis"). On the other hand, creating a gadget that removes a final period if the preceding text is not a complete sentence, and retains a final period if the preceding text forms a complete sentence, is currently not doable, as computers are currently not good at finding out whether a sequence of words forms a complete sentence or not. I would therefore suggest that editors should write the period when the caption forms a complete sentence and omit the period when the caption does not form a complete sentence. That way, those readers who wish to see a period after a complete sentence, but not elsewhere, will be happy, and also those readers who wish to see a period everywhere will be happy when they use the new gadget. An alternative would of course be to apply the rule that Andrew suggests above. --UV (disputatio) 23:47, 21 Martii 2017 (UTC)
It's amazing what you can do with gadgets, UV! That's really great. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:18, 22 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Despite the minutious arguments brought by Iacobus (for academic english writing) I think it would be better, if there could be found an agreement. Legles' sarcastic commentary made me lough loudly, but what's his opinion regarding our problem? Could we agree on Andrew's and my proposal? If not the proposal of UV will run from now (second best solution). Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 07:53, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
"Minutious" is a nice word :) My suggestion is to set aside any wider issue (e.g. bibliographies), which, as Iacobus rightly said, is a question for another day. For image captions I now believe UV's gadget (which already exists) gives us the very best solution. Our rule in captions -- for all of us -- should be: do not place a final stop, unless a complete sentence precedes the stop. Existing final stops (not following a complete sentence) can be removed whenever a page is being edited. Those who like to see a final stop should apply UV's gadget, and everyone will see what they want. Does anyone disagree with that? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:50, 26 Martii 2017 (UTC)
In response to Bis-Taurinus: my personal preference is similar to yours and Andrew's (no period except for sentences with a subject and verb), so I'm fine with the proposed rule and gadget, which I think would make everyone happy. Lesgles (disputatio) 11:42, 27 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Huic categoriae IP oratio potest?[fontem recensere]

Utrum fieri possit ut emendo Memento locos IP Vicipaedia latine? Sum a ordinarius apud [en.wikipedia.org], itaque miratus sum, si quis potes recensere. 68.233.214.74 15:32, 23 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Nescio an quaestionem tuam bene intellegi. Usor "anonymus" paginas et categorias fere omnes emendare potest; si autem paginam movere vult, necesse erit nomen imponere. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:56, 23 Martii 2017 (UTC)

I think he wants to say(--Jondel (disputatio) 09:41, 25 Martii 2017 (UTC)):"Would it be possible to to correct the memory of locations of IP (addresses)" in the latin wikipedia? I am a regular (user) at [en.wikipedia.org] and thus I am wondering if anyone can update/examine."

Ah, yes, perhaps you're right. Thanks, Jondel. Under limited conditions magistratus can delete items from a page history, though I've never done it myself. If that's what it is, the user, if he looks in again, could send an email to a magistratus (to me for example) to explain what needs deleting and why. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:53, 25 Martii 2017 (UTC)

"praemium vicit"[fontem recensere]

Haec verba saepissime apud nos lego, e.g. David Storey (auctor nuper mortuus) "praemium Man Booker vicit". An hoc re vera Latine dicere possumus? Quomodo melius? Ego interdum "... praemio X laureatus est" temptavi, sed incertitudo me obsidet! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:41, 27 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Ego fortasse nonnulla "praemium vicit" incaute scripsi. "Praemio laureatus est" mihi placet, sed hoc in sensu Latinitatis posterioris videtur. Caesar scribit praemium consequi et Suetonius praemium auferre. Lesgles (disputatio) 14:04, 28 Martii 2017 (UTC)
'praemium recipere' etiam suadere velim. Obiter hunc situm 'glosbe' uti etiam suadeo.--Jondel (disputatio) 08:24, 29 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Bonum est tibi O Andreae monstrandi hoc. Nos ducis. Gratias ad Lesgles, exemplum suum, Caesari ('consequi') utiendo corrigendoque in vicipedia mox futurus sim. Etiam ecquis certe corrigere potest.--Jondel (disputatio) 08:44, 29 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Optime, Lesgles et Jondel, praemium consequi sive recipere sive et auferre possumus! Gratias ago ambobus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:39, 29 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Praeterea praemium accipere dici potest vel vocabulis praemium alicui vel datur vel defertur vel tribuitur uti licet. --Bavarese (disputatio) 14:48, 29 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Exemplar syntacticum in Cassell's est alicui praemium dare pro aliqua re (Cic.); aliud verbum appositum = consequi (Caes.). ¶ Ainsworth's habet "to carry away the bell, day, or prize" = palmam ferre et victoriam reportare. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:34, 29 Martii 2017 (UTC)
Et praemio aliquem donare vel afficere dicere licet. Fortasse etiam praemium merere?--Bavarese (disputatio) 09:03, 30 Martii 2017 (UTC)

Pagina Nomen Mozart[fontem recensere]

Quid agendum sit de rubro paginae nomine 'Nomen Mozart'? Haec res ullis auctoribus omnino orbata est (et pleno iure quidem), eandemque delendam esse censeo. --Bavarese (disputatio) 09:28, 9 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)

De hoc nexu rubro in commentatione Wolfgangus Amadeus Mozartus vide commentationem en:Mozart's name. An nobis opus est commentationis Nomen Mozart nescio. --UV (disputatio) 19:17, 9 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)
Notam quintam in pagina Wolfgangus Amadeus Mozartus subscriptam nexumque rubrum Nomen Mozart continentem superfluam esse puto. Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 22:30, 9 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)

... cinematographicus[fontem recensere]

film director - Dispositor cinematographicus
film producer - ... cinematographicus? --Alex1011 (disputatio) 11:26, 25 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)

Producer = 'choragus' (Traupman). Iam habemus commentarium de procuratore televisifico ('television producer'). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:30, 25 Aprilis 2017 (UTC)

Formula:Capsa pelliculae[fontem recensere]

Quid est "fundata in" in Formula:Capsa pelliculae? --Alex1011 (disputatio) 09:49, 2 Maii 2017 (UTC)

fortasse "based on" --Alex1011 (disputatio) 09:11, 18 Maii 2017 (UTC)
Ita, fortasse. Haec capsa ab usore anonymo anno 2014 magnopere aucta est. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:31, 18 Maii 2017 (UTC)

Memphis, Tennessee[fontem recensere]

Starting yesterday, a number of articles related to Memphis, Tennessee have been created or expanded by new users (all newly created articles are currently in a non-stipula state):

Perhaps a Latin class? Anyone willing to reach out to the class/their teacher? --UV (disputatio) 20:08, 2 Maii 2017 (UTC)

Gotta give them credit for trying, though. Really! StevenJ81 (disputatio) 21:53, 2 Maii 2017 (UTC)
I left a message for Runcmk, creator of the page FedEx Forum (which is now OK as a stipula I think). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:00, 3 Maii 2017 (UTC)
Thank you, Andrew!
Some more articles created meanwhile:
--UV (disputatio) 20:46, 3 Maii 2017 (UTC)

Little syntax problem[fontem recensere]

I wanted to make a formula {{SIMBAD}} (resembling {{Fontes biologici}}, and to be renamed if other links are added to it) to place on each astronomical page about a star, initially reproducing the link that is available on Wikidata to the SIMBAD database, which contains handy information about each star and links to other databases. The relevant SIMBAD identity for each star is listed on Wikidata as d:Property:P3083. Tiny problem: these identities contain space characters (usually two), which cannot form part of a URL and are anyway interpreted in MediaWiki as the break between the URL and the page's name. To construct the real URL for each relevant page on SIMBAD, you have to replace the space character with +. Wikidata somehow already does this (because clicking the link on Wikidata takes you to the SIMBAD page) but I don't know how it does it or whether we can do the same. Can anyone help? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:57, 15 Maii 2017 (UTC)

One possibility:
SIMBAD: * 15 Ori
Another possibility:
SIMBAD
Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 22:14, 15 Maii 2017 (UTC)
Just what I needed! Thanks, UV. Interesting that the two results are not quite the same, but both useful. I will work on this later today. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:42, 16 Maii 2017 (UTC)

m:Requests for comment/Global centralnotice for the blockade of the Turkish government[fontem recensere]

Hi, you are invited to participate in the discussion on the proposal to make a banner through m: centralnotice to inform more people around the world about what the Turkish government has done about Wikipedia, ie all the language versions of Wikipedia are You are obscured, so in Turkey it is impossible to view the * .wikipedia.org site. To hope that the Turkish government will remove the block, it is necessary to raise awareness of this fact around the world because it is important to succeed in this mission because Wikipedia can not be seen in Turkey. With this message also for those interested, I invite him to sign the Wikimedian appeal.

If you have any questions or questions do not hesitate to contact me. Thanks best regards. --Samuele2002 (Talk!) 17:14, 1 Iunii 2017 (UTC)

Tabulae societatum pedilusorum[fontem recensere]

Anonymus quidam, lingua Latina ut videtur non loquens, tabulas societatum nationalium pedilusorum his diebus addit, nominibus Hispanicis sive aliis linguis (sed saepius Hispanicis) et nexibus rubris plenas, sine textu, sine fontibus. Cur hanc rem apud nos facit, non explicat. Paginae plures (vide e.g. Ligue 1‎‎) Latinitate "pessima" a me et Iacobo aestimatae, nihil continentes nisi quod multo melius in aliis Wikipediis iam reperies, periculum deletionis incurrunt ... nisi quis de his paginis augendis laborare velit! Si res tibi interest, commentum hic adde! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:04, 9 Iulii 2017 (UTC)

Non omnes hae paginae etiam verae sunt: e.g. pagina MLS dicit 10 greges in foedere esse, sed hodie sunt 20 (nisi fallor). Aliquas paginas iam corregi, ut Poculum Aureum CONCACAF, et bene est tales paginas habere, ut opinor -- sed egomet malo de rebus mathematicis necnon linguisticis scribere; reliquas corrigendas non possum recipere. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:35, 16 Iulii 2017 (UTC)

Oratio directa[fontem recensere]

Haereo, quo modo in paginis nostris oratio directa notari oporteat. Ita e vobis, o notores, quaero, utrum habeamus certum huius rei vel morem vel legem? --Bavarese (disputatio) 07:35, 24 Iulii 2017 (UTC)

Bona quaestio. Dixerim ego, melius esse " " uti (modis Francogallicis, Hispanicis, Theodiscis etc. relictis) non quod Anglus sum, sed quod omnes, nisi fallor, haec sigla " " habent inter claves computatri. Quo dicto, si intra titulum operis aut intra citationem, quam in commentationem Vicipaedicam insero, sigla « » stant, rescribere non soleo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:54, 24 Iulii 2017 (UTC)

en:Miss World[fontem recensere]

De victricibus certaminis Miss World hae verba bis apud nos legi: "et victoria erat [[Domina Mundus|Dominae Mundi]] [[annus|anno]] [[2000]]" (vel sim.). Mendare volens, scripsi "[[domicella mundi]] anno [[2000]] coronata est". Vide e.g. Priyanka Chopra. Sed quid dicunt alii? Verbum "domicella", quod e Latinitate mediaevali dempsi, certe = Fr. demoiselle, fortasse = Angl. miss. An melius exprimere possumus? An verbo classico uti possumus? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:02, 29 Iulii 2017 (UTC)

Traupman: "miss (term of respect) domina -ae f." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:17, 29 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
Hmm, gratias tibi (sicut saepissime) ago, mi Iacobe. Aliquid autem de locutione "domina mundi" in hoc contextu me displicet! Miss World, si domina mundi proclamatur, cum deis deabusque nonnullis certatura est. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:35, 29 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
Verbum mediaevale Latinum "domicella" est aut origo verbi Francogallici demoiselle et Anglici damsel, aut derivatum reversum (back-formation). Formae Latinae stellatae *"dominicella" et *"domnicella" ab etymologis postulantur, sed non reperiuntur. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:50, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
Sed si 'mister' = dominus, nonne 'mistress' ('miss') = domina? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:56, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
Circumcursas ... Mistress, Missus, Mrs, Miss, Missie, Ms omnes, variis contextibus, possumus fortasse Latine Dominam reddere, sed Miss World non ad Dominam Mundi correspondet. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:37, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
If it's a trademark (and it may well be), it should be in whichever language it's registered. ¶ But to my ears, she's not the mistress of the world: she's a mistress whose name is World, as with Miss America and of course, for the men, Mr. America and Captain America. I suppose one could call her Domina Munda, with something of a pun on the noun mundus and the adjective mundus, -a, -um. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:38, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
That's not so bad (if I may say so). They like their winner to be shiny-clean, I gather.
Not exactly a trade mark: at least, other languages translate. In French it's Miss Monde. Note that the Francophones were stuck, as I was, on translating Miss, and they gave up. One might easily assume that Mademoiselle would hit the spot, but not so. In Hindi it's a Sanskrit coinage, Viśvasundarī, approx. "beautiful woman of the whole world". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:54, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
Domicella mundi in hoc loco (Priyanka Chopra) mihi non displicet, quamquam de syntaxi huius locutionis aliquantum dubito, namque, ut iam indicavit Iacobus noster, "Miss World", si de persona loquimur, eandem syntaxin attributivam exhibere videtur ac "Captain America" aut "Ms. Marvel". At "Miss World" (etiam) certamen vel pompam certabundam (pageant) significat, quae paene cum nota mercatoria comparari possit. Itaque haesito ego, utrum praeferendum sit nomen Anglicum, ut in nonnullis aliis wikipediis, an exemplo linguarum Romanicarum dicendum "Miss Mundus". Mihi non liquet, cur nos totam phrasin latinizare oporteat, cum multae aliae linguae in Anglico termino technico acquiescant. Neander (disputatio) 18:07, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
"Pompa certabunda" optime dixisti! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:09, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
I propose we adopt Viśvasundarī! :-) A. Mahoney (disputatio) 14:06, 31 Iulii 2017 (UTC)

Digitus (pars corporis)[fontem recensere]

Bardidate quadam feci paginam Digitus (pars corporis) (discretiva). Quam quaeso deleatis. --Bavarese (disputatio) 09:58, 2 Augusti 2017 (UTC)