Disputatio:Biscum

ij

This is a very unusual spelling, as is "Bija" (Bia). Do you have a source for them? Because otherwise I really think we shoudl change both of those <ij>'s to 's. Latin just does not normally put consonental and vocalic together. To make matters worse, it is the policy of this Wikipedia to avoid the use of <j> where possible. Of course, if you have a source on this, then I suppose you could plead later Latinization: so far no one has a problem with names like Wolfgangus and Vladislaus, even though they are phonetically and orthographically very un-Latin. --Iustinus 05:37 mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, it's weird. I noticed as a general rule the earlier Latinists never bothered to respell things, usually preferring to just take the vernacular spelling they were familiar with and finding a way to decline it. (On such a principle we might end up with "musica reggaea" too...) BTW, I found this looking for Bijsk in Latin: [1] — "Władywostocensis" has to be the best word ever! —Myces Tiberinus 17:04 mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I was certain you would cite some "Mapwegian" in response to my comment ;) But I had not thought of reggaea, which is actually quite a good suggestion. I'll have to add that there. --Iustinus 18:48 mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

The Problem of Giving a Latin Name to Бийск

Some cities in Russia have traditional Latin names (created not earlier than the Middle Ages - Russian cities are not old enough to be contemporaries of the ancient Romans), sometimes several ones, e.g. Novogradum and Novogardia. So, I started creating articles about these cities only after finding Latin names for them (and choosing the equivalent, closest to the real Russian pronunciation).

But I had a burning desire to create an article about my home city of Бийск (English Biysk, German Bijsk) despite of the fact that this city does not have a traditional Latin name. In [2] (thanks to Myces Tiberinus), as I consider, a mere German-like transliteration is given ("Oratorium Bijsk (gub. Altajensis)"). In fact, it was a problem for me to create a latinized name for Бийск. So, when I saw the name Tomskum for Томск - Tomsk in Vicipaedia, I made Bijskum the name for Бийск - Biysk. Now I consider that I would have better written "Bijscum", not "Bijskum", because I found the Latin equivalents Minscum and Minsca for Минск - Minsk, the city name with the same suffix -ск - -sk. And the letter K itself, as far as I know, in Classical Latin was used only in word "Kalendae" and in name Kaeso.

As for "ij": I definitely had the information that J (as well as U and W) was not in use in Classical Latin, but if I had written "Biiscum" (without j), it could be possible to read the name of the city not only correctly, as "Bijskum", but also incorrectly, as "Bjiskum". Besides, J is used in all the Latin language documents I succeeded to find in the Internet.

But "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". If Vicipaedia's rule is to avoid letter J (though this rule is not too strictly followed), I shall use not "Bijskum", but Biscum ("Pax vo Biscum", "Pax um Biscum"?- "Go in Peace", "Peace be with you"?) as the proper Latin name for Бийск - as Iustinus suggested. --Alexander Gerashchenko - apr 19, 2005