Disputatio:Proelium Waterlooense
Proelium certe est nomen rectum.--Ioshus (disp) 02:11, 22 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)
- Cornelius Nepos habet proelium apud Plateas sed etiam pugnam Cannensem et pugnam Leuctricam. Pugnamne et proelium synonyma sunt? --Alex1011 10:58, 22 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)
- Secundum North and Hillard, non ita. Proelium "battle" significat, pugna autem "skirmish".--Ioshus (disp) 13:01, 22 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)
- Etiam, pugna non necessitate significat rem militarem. Amici ebrii pugnam fortasse pugnent.--Ioshus (disp) 13:13, 22 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)
- In choosing among synonyms, it's often useful to go back to basic senses. A pugna is basically a fistfight ; hence, only in transferred senses is it any old fight, contest, engagement, battle. A proelium according to L&S is "perh. for provilium, pro-dvilium; cf. duellum (bellum)]" and seems basically to mean nothing but a battle involving armed troops. So for an engagement involving armies, proelium is the thing itself, and pugna is a metaphor for it. Next, we'd want to see how classical authors used the terms, and that's where dictionaries may help. Since the exercise of military might was highly important to the Romans, appropriate near-synonyms must have had many nuances (of which we can't easily be aware). Consider the wealth of terms for various kinds of battle that we have in English: action, affray, ambush, Armageddon, assault, attack, besetment, besiegement, blitzkrieg, bombardment, bout, brawl, broil, brush, campaign, clash, collision, combat, conflict, confrontation, contention, contest, crusade, dissension, donnybrook, duel, dustup, encounter, engagement, escalade, feud, fight, foray, fracas, hostilities, incursion, invasion, joust, massacre, meeting, melee, offensive, onslaught, raid, rencounter, resistance, row, run-in, rush, sally, scrap, scuffle, showdown, siege, skirmish, slaughter, sortie, spat, squabble, storming, strafing, struggle, strife, sturt (Scottish), surge (Bushism), tilt, tournament, tussle, uprising, uproar, war, warfare, wrangle, and on & on : native speakers can readily discriminate among most of them, and would use particular ones to denote particular kinds of battling. IacobusAmor 13:34, 22 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)
- Mea opinione rite acies dici potest, cum apud Hermann Menge, Lateinische Synonymik (Heidelberg 1959), pag. 94, lego: "acies: 'förmliche, regelrechte Schlacht' mit Rücksicht auf die geordnete Stellung der Heere, 'offene Feldschlacht' im Gegensatz zu andern Kriegsoperationen (z. B. zu Stadtbestürmungen, die aber auch pugnae, oder zu Überfällen, die dennoch meistens proelia sind)." --Bavarese (disputatio) 15:22, 24 Novembris 2018 (UTC)
- In choosing among synonyms, it's often useful to go back to basic senses. A pugna is basically a fistfight ; hence, only in transferred senses is it any old fight, contest, engagement, battle. A proelium according to L&S is "perh. for provilium, pro-dvilium; cf. duellum (bellum)]" and seems basically to mean nothing but a battle involving armed troops. So for an engagement involving armies, proelium is the thing itself, and pugna is a metaphor for it. Next, we'd want to see how classical authors used the terms, and that's where dictionaries may help. Since the exercise of military might was highly important to the Romans, appropriate near-synonyms must have had many nuances (of which we can't easily be aware). Consider the wealth of terms for various kinds of battle that we have in English: action, affray, ambush, Armageddon, assault, attack, besetment, besiegement, blitzkrieg, bombardment, bout, brawl, broil, brush, campaign, clash, collision, combat, conflict, confrontation, contention, contest, crusade, dissension, donnybrook, duel, dustup, encounter, engagement, escalade, feud, fight, foray, fracas, hostilities, incursion, invasion, joust, massacre, meeting, melee, offensive, onslaught, raid, rencounter, resistance, row, run-in, rush, sally, scrap, scuffle, showdown, siege, skirmish, slaughter, sortie, spat, squabble, storming, strafing, struggle, strife, sturt (Scottish), surge (Bushism), tilt, tournament, tussle, uprising, uproar, war, warfare, wrangle, and on & on : native speakers can readily discriminate among most of them, and would use particular ones to denote particular kinds of battling. IacobusAmor 13:34, 22 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)