Disputatio:Didacus Alvari Chanca
Latinizing -ez?[fontem recensere]
Note that he Latinized Álvarez as Alvari. That -ez is a patronymic suffix. Is this pattern productive? So Hernández regularly becomes Fernandi and Pérez becomes Petri and Rodríguez becomes Roderici and so on? And since this suffix is not unlike Russian -vich, should the Russian names currently given as N filii (where N is the father's name) omit the filii, so, for example, Michael Georgii filius Lermontov would become Michael Georgii Lermontov? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:47, 10 Martii 2019 (UTC)
- I don't see a strong reason to apply a Spanish model to Russian. If we found more examples, and in Latin of some other countries, that might be more persuasive ... Classical Latin gives the pattern we already use for Russian names and names in many other Orthodox countries, and our general practice is to appeal to classical Latin first.
- As for applying the pattern more widely in Spanish, yes, tempting! Maybe we should. But as I understand it, it isn't always a true patronymic (by contrast with Russian, modern Greek, Georgian, etc. etc., where it always is). I don't know whether there's any rule of thumb, so that we could know in any one case whether it is a patronymic or not. Maybe a Spanish speaker will comment. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:44, 10 Martii 2019 (UTC)
- De Hispanicis nescio, sed de quaestione simili aliquando cogitabam: nomina Islandica patronymicum habent et in versione Latina iis filius vel filia additur, sed non semper. Latinizatio vetus adiectivum dat, ut Snorro Sturlaeus, non Sturlae filius, Gudbrandus Thorlacius; haec adiectiva fontes habent et sine dubio servanda sunt; nova interdum non vertuntur, — Rögnvaldur Ólafsson, non Olai filius, etc. Haec dubitanda sunt. — Nostra Russica (et Ucrainica etc.) inter se congruunt, semper filius/filia addimus, quamvis longum est. In libris interdum f. scribitur. Demetrius Talpa (disputatio) 15:04, 10 Martii 2019 (UTC)
- Recte exemplum Islandicum citas, mi Demetri. Paginae de politicis Islandicis, quas incepi ego, eadem fere formula qua paginae Russicae utuntur, e.g. Guðni Thorlacius Iohannis filius et Olaus Ragnarus Grímur filius. Hoc casu necesse est verba "filius" et "filia" verbatim in titulo inserere, quia Islandenses cognomina nulla habent. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:21, 10 Martii 2019 (UTC)
- De Hispanicis nescio, sed de quaestione simili aliquando cogitabam: nomina Islandica patronymicum habent et in versione Latina iis filius vel filia additur, sed non semper. Latinizatio vetus adiectivum dat, ut Snorro Sturlaeus, non Sturlae filius, Gudbrandus Thorlacius; haec adiectiva fontes habent et sine dubio servanda sunt; nova interdum non vertuntur, — Rögnvaldur Ólafsson, non Olai filius, etc. Haec dubitanda sunt. — Nostra Russica (et Ucrainica etc.) inter se congruunt, semper filius/filia addimus, quamvis longum est. In libris interdum f. scribitur. Demetrius Talpa (disputatio) 15:04, 10 Martii 2019 (UTC)