Disputatio:Democratiae Hispanicae abolendae conatus anno 1981
Xaveri, conatus ad democratiam Hispanicam derogandam mihi quidem videtur Anglice 'impulse, tendency to diminish the Spanish democracy' significare. Nisi hoc dicere vis, melior mihi videtur inscriptio conatus democratiae Hispanicae derogandae 'effort ...' . Neander 17:49, 23 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- Hercle... miki paginae nomen significabat "attempt to abolish the Spanish democracy". Censeas genetivum melior quam ad+gerundivum esse? Si ita, mox est pagina movenda.--Xaverius 18:38, 23 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- Censeo quidem: constat enim polysemiam vel ambiguitatem conatùs (1: 'inclination, tendency'; 2: 'attempt, effort') constructionum differentià removeri, sicut conatum ('inclination') habere ad naturales pastus capessendos [cf. Cic. nat. 2.47.122] sed conatus ('attempt') exercitus comparandi [cf. Cic. Phil. 10.11.24]. Neander 22:07, 23 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps you can glean ideas for the best title from possibilities in other wikis:
- de: 23-F (but with the lemma "Der Putsch vom 23. Februar 1981")
- en: 23-F
- es: Golpe de Estado en España de 1981
- fr: Coup d'État du 23-F (but with the lemma "Le coup d'État du 23 février 1981")
- it: Colpo di Stato spagnolo del 1981 (but with the lemma "Il golpe del 23 febbraio 1981 in Spagna)
- The English phrase you're looking for might be 'attempted coup' or 'failed coup'. IacobusAmor 19:21, 23 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- But them, how to say "a coup d'etat", if the error is not in the way it is phrased (ad democratiam derogandam) but in the word conatus itself?--Xaverius 00:10, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- As far as I can see, there's no problem with conatus per se; the problems lie in (1) the construction ad which suggests a reading not, I presume, intended by you (on this se my message above); (2) the verb derogare which means 'to detract from sthing'. ¶ As a possible title I suggest Democratiae Hispanicae temptandae conatus on the model urbis temptandae conatus that can be gleaned from Livius 33.5 (et postquam nihil conceptae temere spei succedebat, urbis quidem amplius temptandae in praesentia conatu absistit). Neander 16:33, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- Ok, I see the difference now between the constructions of conatus with and without ad. I was confused there. On tempto/tento v. derogo, could aboleo work as well?--Xaverius 17:10, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I believe Democratiae Hispanicae abolendae conatus works all right. Neander 17:43, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- Ok, I see the difference now between the constructions of conatus with and without ad. I was confused there. On tempto/tento v. derogo, could aboleo work as well?--Xaverius 17:10, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- If I look at de coniuratione Catilinae Sallust mentions contra rem publicam coniurare. I suggest coniuratio contra rem publicam impedita or coniuratio contra democratiam Hispanicam impedita. El Suizo 15:19, 25 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- As far as I can see, there's no problem with conatus per se; the problems lie in (1) the construction ad which suggests a reading not, I presume, intended by you (on this se my message above); (2) the verb derogare which means 'to detract from sthing'. ¶ As a possible title I suggest Democratiae Hispanicae temptandae conatus on the model urbis temptandae conatus that can be gleaned from Livius 33.5 (et postquam nihil conceptae temere spei succedebat, urbis quidem amplius temptandae in praesentia conatu absistit). Neander 16:33, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)
- But them, how to say "a coup d'etat", if the error is not in the way it is phrased (ad democratiam derogandam) but in the word conatus itself?--Xaverius 00:10, 24 Februarii 2011 (UTC)