Disputatio:Sucinum

De titulo etc.[fontem recensere]

Res e disputatione mea mutuata. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:02, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Andrew, for fixing the title of Electricitas so speedily. (I'll go to Wikipedia now and add a link there, so as to help our score on the ratings for the 1000 pages.) Now we have another problem: the article's nexus for Electrum wrongly redirects to Electron—which amber most certainly is not! If electrum really can mean electron, we need a disambiguation page, since Vicipaedia should surely allow for the possibility of having an article on amber! IacobusAmor 14:39, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You maybe remember, Iacobe, that you can deal with this yourself. Type "electrum" in the search box. When you get to "Electron", click on the little word "electrum" under the title. Now click on edit. Create your discretiva page. Eurekas! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:57, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We do have a discretiva page, see : Electron (discretiva), where amber is called succinum--Rafaelgarcia 15:05, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, right. Then I guess the redirect at Electrum could be edited to point to Electron (discretiva). Is that best? Succinum is surely the right Latin word for "amber". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:28, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ack. Now you're confusing me. The earliest source for succinum in Ainsworth's & Cassell's is Pliny, but electrum goes back to Vergil & Ovid; so, apparently being earlier, shouldn't electrum take precedence (even if it does come from Greek)? The form of succinum preferred in Cassell's is sūcĭnum, and that seems reasonable, if (as Cassell's says) the word derives from sucus. IacobusAmor 18:03, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're right Iacobus. I think the original page authors like Pliny were motivated by the fact that the word Electrum is used for so many contradictory things: in latin just about any material that is amber colored is called electrum: gold/silver alloys as well as amber.

Under electrum Lewis and Short give :"ēlectrum, i, n., = ἤλεκτρον.I Amber (pure Lat. succinum), Plin. 37, 2, 11, § 31; Ov. M. 15, 316. — Plur., Verg. E. 8, 54. — " but under succinum they redirect to sucinum where they state :"sūcĭnum (succ-), i, n. sucus, I amber, usu. called electrum, Plin. 37, 2, 11, § 30; Mart. 3, 65, 5; 5, 37, 11; Juv. 6, 573 al."

So in summary, the proper name seems to be held to be sucinum or succinum with the more popular common name being the ambiguous electrum.--Rafaelgarcia 18:24, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think I share Rafael's feeling that succinum (however spelt) is the "proper" Latin name. Pliny is a good source for everyday Latin of trade items. On the other hand, Vergil and Ovid were alluding to Greek mythology and therefore preferring a Greek word.

I also agree that electrum has many meanings, while succinum is unambiguous. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:43, 29 Iunii 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, three years later. My lexicon mention also súcinum but not the other one. It mentions one more: glaesum. Before adding it in the article, what do you think of that word?

Donatello (disputatio) 02:46, 19 Augusti 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Yes, Donatello, please add it! It's a good alternative term which I certainly didn't know before. An early loanword from Germanic to Latin.

"Sucinum" remains the best, I think. "Electrum" should remain -- it is used in Latin literature -- so we'll have 3 choices in the first sentence. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:32, 21 Augusti 2013 (UTC)[reply]