Disputatio:Orcus (Terra Media)
The etymology of "orc" is somewhat complicated, but it seems clear that the ultimate origin is the Roman god Orcus. Consequently I have always assumed there Latin name would be Orculi, Orcani, Orcini, or the like. --Iustinus 07:50, 17 Iulii 2006 (UTC)
- I am not so sure about the etymology. Linne's term Delphinus Orca for the orc whale is, according to OED, an allusion to medieval Latin writers' reports of ferocious sea monsters. On the other hand, an allusion to Orcus is also thought possible. I would prefer Orca, -ae m., but maybe the inofficial Latin translation of Tolkien should be looked into (follow link on Dominus Anulorum)--Iovis Fulmen 08:31, 17 Iulii 2006 (UTC)
- Tolkien himself specifically stated that by "orc" he did not mean to refer to the existing English word orc "type of whale, sea monster" from Latin orca "killer whale", but to the root orc that occurs in Beowulf as orcneas, which almost certainly is from Latin orcus:
- "I originally took the word from Old English orc (Beowulf 112 orc-neas and the gloss orc = þyrs ('ogre'), heldeofol ('hell-devil'). This is supposed not to be connected with modern English orc, ork, a name applied to various sea-beasts of the dolphin order." (Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings.)
- Again, see en:orc for a much more detailed discussion of this word-history. --Iustinus 18:24, 17 Iulii 2006 (UTC)
- Tolkien himself specifically stated that by "orc" he did not mean to refer to the existing English word orc "type of whale, sea monster" from Latin orca "killer whale", but to the root orc that occurs in Beowulf as orcneas, which almost certainly is from Latin orcus:
It would seem to be cognate with the French 'ogre' and Italian 'orco', both from Latin 'Orcus', and underworld deity, for which we already have a page. I would propose that we put the Tolkienian orcs into the second declension at the very least, and possibly combine this page with the 'Orcus' one. Matthaeus Tomlinson 09:07, 31 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
- Writing something about orcs in this page, I was wondering which of the latin translations you all have proposed is the most appropriate. I think we'd better continue using "orc", for it doesn't come from latin "Orcus" directly, but from anglo-saxon words like we can find in Beowulf, as you have already noticed. Even if the ancient root is latin, the "orcs" we find in fables and romances are almost near to the English "ogre" or the more ancient "ork". For this reason, I've used Orc in the page, though adding also other possible translations "orcus" and "orculus" which are nearer to the pure latin. But it's only an opinion, and I ask your council and help if you think something should be changed. Thanks. Poecus 21:59, 5 Maii 2009 (UTC)
De nexibus intervicis
[fontem recensere]Nexus intervici huius paginae ducunt ad en:Orc (Middle-earth), it:Orchi (Tolkien) et similia, quae ad opus Tolkien spectant: cum haec pagina non tantum de persona libri illius auctoris sed generaliter de monstro mythologico tractet (vide etiam paginam discretivam), nonne oportet nexus intervicos ad en:Orc aut en:Ogre movere? Si putatis, uter horum dignior videtur?--Poecus (disputatio) 13:38, 18 Augusti 2012 (UTC)