Disputatio:Laridum
Tuccetum[fontem recensere]
Sub hoc verbo Lewis et Short dicunt "a kind of sausage or haggis" et DMLBS dicit "sausage, (meat) pudding, or sim. (v. et. truncunus)." Num "bacon/lard" significare potest? Lesgles (disputatio) 21:17, 24 Maii 2016 (UTC)
- Traupman: "lard" = adeps, vel si ex "bacon" factum lar(i)dum. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:35, 25 Maii 2016 (UTC)
- Traupman: "bacon" = lardus. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:35, 25 Maii 2016 (UTC)
- And now I see the OLD defines tuccetum as "Some made-up savoury dish (according to scholiast on Pers. 2.42, beef or pork preserved with seasoning and marinade)". Perhaps our resident food expert can chime in? Lesgles (disputatio) 18:02, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)
- It has Hispanic Romance reflexes including Portuguese toicinho/toucinho "pork fat"; Spanish tocino "bacon; fat, lard". The Catalan reflex, said by Meyer-Lübke to be tocin, is not in my smallish Catalan dictionary, nor in the Catalan wikipedia or wiktionary. Anyway, that evidence suggests the area between lard and bacon, which is an ill-defined area in other languages too. But the OLD seems to have misread the scholiast on Persius, who is quoted verbatim by Du Cange (s.v. tucetum at Logeion) and actually says this is beef, not pork, from Gallia Cisalpina. That's the only approach to a definition, and it contradicts other evidence including several citations in DMLBS, none of which, however, is very specific. In general, think en:speck (I buy speck at market, it does come from Gallia Cisalpina, and it has particularly toothsome fat). I don't see how to pin tuccetum down more closely, but it surely shouldn't appear as an alternative lemma here. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:25, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)
- Interesting! Currently Tuccetum is still a redirect here, so perhaps we could throw in a quick note about it (or make a new page). Lesgles (disputatio) 22:23, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)
- According to Merriam-Webster, lard is nothing but rendered pig fat; the English word for rendered (beef) cattle fat is tallow. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 23:29, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)
- Interesting! Currently Tuccetum is still a redirect here, so perhaps we could throw in a quick note about it (or make a new page). Lesgles (disputatio) 22:23, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)
- It has Hispanic Romance reflexes including Portuguese toicinho/toucinho "pork fat"; Spanish tocino "bacon; fat, lard". The Catalan reflex, said by Meyer-Lübke to be tocin, is not in my smallish Catalan dictionary, nor in the Catalan wikipedia or wiktionary. Anyway, that evidence suggests the area between lard and bacon, which is an ill-defined area in other languages too. But the OLD seems to have misread the scholiast on Persius, who is quoted verbatim by Du Cange (s.v. tucetum at Logeion) and actually says this is beef, not pork, from Gallia Cisalpina. That's the only approach to a definition, and it contradicts other evidence including several citations in DMLBS, none of which, however, is very specific. In general, think en:speck (I buy speck at market, it does come from Gallia Cisalpina, and it has particularly toothsome fat). I don't see how to pin tuccetum down more closely, but it surely shouldn't appear as an alternative lemma here. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:25, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)
- And now I see the OLD defines tuccetum as "Some made-up savoury dish (according to scholiast on Pers. 2.42, beef or pork preserved with seasoning and marinade)". Perhaps our resident food expert can chime in? Lesgles (disputatio) 18:02, 29 Augusti 2020 (UTC)