Disputatio:Franciscus de Quevedo Villegas
Diversitas[fontem recensere]
The text says "in Universitate Complutensi et Valdoleti theologiae studuit" ('He studied theology in the University of Alcalá and at Valladolid'), but our article "Universitas Compluti Urbis" says this university "anno 1977 condita [est]."
- (1) How did someone who died in 1645 frequent a university founded in 1977?
- (2) Did he study privately at Valladolid? or in a university there (and if so, what was its name)? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:40, 1 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- @IacobusAmor The English article says that was founded in one thousand two hundred and ninety-three as a medieval university for the public, and was recreated in 1977. Qondd2 (disputatio) 19:16, 3 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- I've changed the relevant link, which now goes to Universitas Complutensis Matritensis: that's our article on the university that was founded in 1293 at Alcalá and afterwards moved to Madrid, where it still thrives. Andrew Dalby (disputatio)
- OK, good, but now what about Valladolid? The new category, "Alumni Universitatis Vallisoletanae," gives an (assumed) answer, but it's not in the text. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:54, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- @IacobusAmor Spanish article says that between 1596 and 1600, he studied with the Jesuits classical languages, French, Italian, philosophy, physics and mathematics, as well as theology, with the link "Universidad de Alcalá (histórica)". Qondd2 (disputatio) 14:15, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- @IacobusAmor At the date spoken of here, in Europe, it's rather to be taken for granted that students in a city counted as part of the "universitas" (the body of students and teachers) of that city. Tens of thousands of Wikipedia articles in several languages refer to people's student days in just this way. Note the convenient ambiguity of our category: we don't say that he was enrolled at the "studium generale" at Valladolid (though I should think, in this case, he almost certainly was), we say he was nourished in the universitas. But no harm in looking for confirmation if you wish. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:19, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- Re: "it's rather to be taken for granted that students in a city counted as part of the "universitas" (the body of students and teachers) of that city."—That may have been so in the eighteenth century, but nowadays in general, the imprecision of that style of reference may be misleading. It'll puzzle many young people and others too ignorant to take the intended meaning for granted. Faced with such phrasing (especially with more modern topics), they might consult the internet, which will puzzle them by finding at least four colleges & universities with a presence in Valladolid, the others being English College, Valladolid; Miguel de Cervantes European University; and Schiller International University. ¶ This kind of imprecision reminds me of one of my professors, who rankled at a commonly cited imprecision in his own biography, a statement that might be simplified as "He attended Famous College X, where he studied with Famous Musician Y." He did indeed attend Famous College X, and Famous Musician Y did indeed teach there: but, contrary to what all readers of that syntax assume (taking the point for granted), he did not take a college course with Famous Musician Y: he studied privately with him. No evidence of this study appears on his academic transcript! ¶ In the interest of not forcing the ignorant to take things for granted, the link in this article should lead to the university, not to the city, though I'd suggest that the best option would be for the text to make its point plainly and name the university. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:22, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- @IacobusAmor I hope you don't sue me for "historical falsification". Qondd2 (disputatio) 21:06, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- Re: "it's rather to be taken for granted that students in a city counted as part of the "universitas" (the body of students and teachers) of that city."—That may have been so in the eighteenth century, but nowadays in general, the imprecision of that style of reference may be misleading. It'll puzzle many young people and others too ignorant to take the intended meaning for granted. Faced with such phrasing (especially with more modern topics), they might consult the internet, which will puzzle them by finding at least four colleges & universities with a presence in Valladolid, the others being English College, Valladolid; Miguel de Cervantes European University; and Schiller International University. ¶ This kind of imprecision reminds me of one of my professors, who rankled at a commonly cited imprecision in his own biography, a statement that might be simplified as "He attended Famous College X, where he studied with Famous Musician Y." He did indeed attend Famous College X, and Famous Musician Y did indeed teach there: but, contrary to what all readers of that syntax assume (taking the point for granted), he did not take a college course with Famous Musician Y: he studied privately with him. No evidence of this study appears on his academic transcript! ¶ In the interest of not forcing the ignorant to take things for granted, the link in this article should lead to the university, not to the city, though I'd suggest that the best option would be for the text to make its point plainly and name the university. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:22, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- @IacobusAmor At the date spoken of here, in Europe, it's rather to be taken for granted that students in a city counted as part of the "universitas" (the body of students and teachers) of that city. Tens of thousands of Wikipedia articles in several languages refer to people's student days in just this way. Note the convenient ambiguity of our category: we don't say that he was enrolled at the "studium generale" at Valladolid (though I should think, in this case, he almost certainly was), we say he was nourished in the universitas. But no harm in looking for confirmation if you wish. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:19, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- @IacobusAmor Spanish article says that between 1596 and 1600, he studied with the Jesuits classical languages, French, Italian, philosophy, physics and mathematics, as well as theology, with the link "Universidad de Alcalá (histórica)". Qondd2 (disputatio) 14:15, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- OK, good, but now what about Valladolid? The new category, "Alumni Universitatis Vallisoletanae," gives an (assumed) answer, but it's not in the text. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:54, 4 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
- I've changed the relevant link, which now goes to Universitas Complutensis Matritensis: that's our article on the university that was founded in 1293 at Alcalá and afterwards moved to Madrid, where it still thrives. Andrew Dalby (disputatio)
- @IacobusAmor The English article says that was founded in one thousand two hundred and ninety-three as a medieval university for the public, and was recreated in 1977. Qondd2 (disputatio) 19:16, 3 Ianuarii 2024 (UTC)
Fons recensionis mense Martio 2024[fontem recensere]
Meyers Großes Konversations-Lexikon, tomus 16. Lipsiae 1908, p. 520-521 (hic in interreti)