Disputatio:Yr Hen Ogledd

Shouldn't the title on this page be in Latin, rather than Welsh? BudgieJane 21:03, 5 Februarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's an article on this subject on 14 Wikipedias (see the interwiki links). 13 of them have the title in Welsh, only one doesn't (the Russian one). There must be some reason. I'd suggest it's because we are talking about a Welsh phrase which has (or had) an idiomatic meaning in Welsh and, if translated literally into those other languages, wouldn't still have the desired meaning. But by all means suggest a better title. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:30, 5 Februarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I myself am not particularly keen on anything but the Welsh, since, as the article points out, Yr Hen Ogledd is the name used by scholars. "Vetus Septentrio" doesn't really mean anything. See what the folk at en: wrote:

The term is derived from heroic poetry as told by bards for the enjoyment and benefit of the Welsh kings of that era. From the relatively southern Welsh perspective, these are stories of the Gwŷr y Gogledd (English: Men of the North), with their relationships to the great men of the past given by genealogies such as Bonedd Gwŷr y Gogledd (English: Descent of the Men of the North) and the Harleian genealogies. "The North" became "the Old North" in recognition of the passage of time since the literary works were contemporary, hence "the Old North" and "Men of the Old North". ¶ In attempting to construct a reasonably accurate history of the areas that now make up southern Scotland and northern England, scholars have adopted the term Hen Ogledd or "Old North" from the Welsh heroic poetry to refer to the Brythonic kingdoms, such as Rheged. As used by historians, the term is meant to apply to an area of scholarly research, and is not intended to give undue weight to the poetry and genealogy that first produced the term.

Which seems to make sense to me. And since I have some spare time right now, I might as well translate these two paragraphs for our article ... :) Mattie 22:54, 5 Februarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]