Disputatio:Septentrio

This is a silly redirect I think. Septentrio=big dipper, which just happens to be the name of a province in France. Perhaps this should be a page on the big dipper and a discretiva could be set up. --Rafaelgarcia 11:03, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nomen praefecturae (Nord = Septentrio?)[fontem recensere]

Yes. One wonders whether the Latin name is attested in some reliable source. Or is this another "Cork = Suber" case. --Neander 11:17, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't choose it myself, but I don't think it's such a misnomer as you suggest. According to the Oxford Latin Dictionary ed. P. G. W. Glare (Oxonii: Clarendon Press, 1968–1982), Septentriones (and later Septentrio) sense 2.c. = "the northern part of a specified area". Citations from Quintus Curtius, Pliny and Tacitus show "septentrio" being used in this sense. The French name for the département is "Nord", so called because it is the most northerly part of France. [Strong support is found in the first sentence of the article on fr:wiki!] So I don't see the similarity between this and the Cork=Suber case.

As to whether we should translate the name "Nord" at all, without a "reliable source", the answer is that according to our current practice we should: "Si nomen Latinum adhuc non exstat usitatum, non vertatur, eis tamen exceptis quae in sermone suo vulgari constant e verbis cottidianis atque intelligibilibus." (Vicipaedia:De nominibus propriis#Nomina geographica). But by all means let's propose a better translation.

[Added a moment later:] And, thank heaven, this rule of ours does not apply to Cork! because (as I pointed out in that discussion so many moons ago) there is no etymological relation between the name of the city and the name of the inner bark of Quercus suber. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:22, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, very good. I now see my "Cork = Suber" doesn't belong. --Neander 12:43, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

De asterismo (Septentrio = Ursa Maior?)[fontem recensere]

I see that English wiki has separate articles for en:Ursa Major and en:Big Dipper but I'm not too clear why Ursa Maior and Septentrio should be distinct. The article doesn't seem to explain this. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:23, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Septentrio are the seven brightest stars in Ursa Major. The brightest stars have a tale of their own, apart from the astronomical aspects of Ursa major itself, becasue of cultural significations. I imagine in separating the cultural things from the non cultural things is accomplished by having separate pages.--Rafaelgarcia 17:51, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, thanks for explaining. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:54, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moving pages[fontem recensere]

People should move pages rather than create and copy content. Also the primary sense of septentrio is the stars itself not the cardinal direction. Look at the name!--Rafaelgarcia 17:21, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quite right! though it must be admitted that anonymous IPs can't move pages. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:54, 29 Augusti 2008 (UTC)[reply]