Disputatio:Nadsat

Tzigana

Here's what Morgan gives for "Gypsie":

711 gypsy hamaxobius, i* m. (LRL), zingarus, i* m. (Bartal s.v. neorusticus), athinganus, i* (Anc. Gr.)

Athinganus is of course the ultimate etymon of the various tzig-/zing- names, but unfortunately it means "untouchable." --Iustinus 03:26, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC) And I have no idea how "Here's Mo" ended up in my edit summary. --Iustinus 03:27, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, I was hoping someone would chip in on that. Athinganus may be OK -- Roma do have strict purity rules so it is not inappropriate. Zingarus is apparently taken from Spanish but I don't know the ultimate etymology (it may be the same). Hamaxobius would mean "caravan-dweller", i.e. "traveller", and therefore more appropriate as a general designation of multiple groups rather than of ethnic and linguistic Roma. I would like to avoid using derivatives of "Roma" if that's possible, because we have so many other uses for those words already! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:13, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

Re-reading your post, I think you confirm that zingarus comes from the same root, as I suspected. Incidentally, tell Morgan that athinganus is not exactly anc. Gr. (if this is significant to him). All the citations come from mid Byzantine sources. Because one of these is Etymologicum Magnum, the word gets into Liddell and Scott, but it shouldn't really. Unluckily, the word was apparently used for an obscure group of heretics (still in mid Byzantine times) before it was applied to Roma: see Du Cange s.v. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:45, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)