Disputatio:Lingua programmandi

Either "Lingua computatralis" or "lingua programmatica" would a much better lemmas for this page. Codex mostly just means bound volume and only tenously translated as code. Even in english, programming code doesn't sound as right as computer language or programming language.--Rafaelgarcia 15:03, 15 Octobris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vide Disputatio:C++--Rafaelgarcia 23:22, 15 Octobris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

lingua machinalis[fontem recensere]

How about lingua machinae instead? machine doesn't appear to have an adjectival form in classical latin so I figure genitive is the next best thing right?--66.153.117.118 21:15, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't seem like there is any kind of consensus for terminology in Latin computer science articles.--66.153.117.118 22:16, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The adjective form is preferred for names where it is possible. Computers and modern machines are classical right? THe word machine didn't mean the same thing to Cicero as it does to us today. --Rafaelgarcia 22:19, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which articles are you referring to? Here on Vici or elsewhere? I had the impression we were pretty consistent at least in the main articles. Errors abound elsewhere.--Rafaelgarcia 22:20, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring specifically to whether or not to use the word codex to refer to "code". My language is often too general, sorry. And as for machine, I just figured using on using genitive only since machine as an adjective it was relatively new and for all I knew dubious. If it is an accepted form here, I obviously understand the benefit of using an adjective instead. --66.153.117.118 22:41, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Given the neo-latin verb programmare, I'd say lingua programmandi as the closest equivalent of a programming language. To me, "lingua programmationis" sounds like "language of programmation", whatever that'd mean. --Neander 22:35, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are correct, The present participle means the language itself is programming, whereas the gerund means that is what it is for.--66.153.117.118 22:56, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My own instinct is that machinalis is OK. Regarding programmatio versus programmandi, I'm willing to go along with Neander on that. THe only reason lingua programmationis was chosen is that it was attested in Morgan's gloss. But that shouldn't trump good sense. Nevertheless, I really don't want to change programmationis->programmandi on all those pages, only for it to be changed again. So lets please decide once and for all what the best phrase is for programming language. As for Codex, it is certainly not as good as calling it lingua programmationis or lingua programmandi. Codex has many meanings. THe original being bark, then bound book; it can only tangentially be construed as code from codex criminalis, literally "book of crimes" which can also be translated as "criminal code". If you need a word for code that isn't programming language how about the greek cipher. --Rafaelgarcia 22:59, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am just being very tentative about everything, because there are many users on here with better latin than mine and I don't know the conventions here yet. Also, it is a much smaller group of contributors so a greater chance of pissing people off.--66.153.117.118 23:06, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By the way are we still in agreement to change the main title of this page to "lingua programmandi"? --Rafaelgarcia 04:51, 1 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nos (= pluralis modestiae) quidem sumus! :-) --Neander 05:18, 1 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English dictionary gives "cifra" as the medieval latin etymology. I don't have access to a decent latin dictionary right now, so i wouldn't know is it cifra,cifralis or cifra,cifrae.--66.153.117.118 23:18, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ecce Cifra! And re: Also, it is a much smaller group of contributors so a greater chance of pissing people ... we tend to get a lot less pissed off with people who have registered accounts (hint hint =]) --Ioscius ^(disp) 23:29, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reminding me of that. I think cifra also might have other meanings: Ecce in english as well as spanish

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cipher
1.  The mathematical symbol (0) denoting absence of quantity; zero.
2. An Arabic numeral or figure; a number.
3. One having no influence or value; a nonentity.
4.
  a. A cryptographic system in which units of plain text of regular length, usually letters, 
  are arbitrarily transposed or substituted according to a predetermined  code.
  b. The key to such a system.
  c. A message written or transmitted in such a system.
5. A design combining or interweaving letters or initials; a monogram.

--Rafaelgarcia 23:40, 25 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

'Machine code' is rather lingua machinae — the machine's own language that it's able to "understand" — than machinalis, which means 'mechanic'; Plinius uses machinalis scientia to say 'mechanics'. --Neander 00:47, 26 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't scientia machinalis be better translated as the "machine science". Mechanicus I think is what translates "mechanic" more closely. See Words; mechanicus -> mechanical; of/concerned with machines/engineering; while machinalis -> machine-like; Again I think the trouble is that the concept of machine has changed with time, after Newtonus but especially after the XIX century with the invention of steam machines.--Rafaelgarcia 00:56, 26 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, my English isn't fine-grained enough to tell the difference between machine science and mechanics. But witness Plinius: "Grande et Archimedi geometricae ac machinalis scientiae testimonium M. Marcelli contigit" (Nat.hist. 7.125), "Archimedes also received striking testimony to his knowledge of geometry and mechanics from Marcus Marcellus"; "M.Marcellus rendit un magnifique hommage à Archimède, pour sa science en géométrie et en mécanique" (R.Schilling). Machinalis and mechanicus seem to be synonymous adjectives. --Neander 02:34, 26 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, remember Archimedes was famous for his machines, including his war machines, and back then there was no science of mechanics, but only a science of machines. So there would hardly be a difference in meaning between the two terms back then. Mechanics, however, now includes things like projectile motion, Newton's laws, thermodynamics, and quantum mechanics, all of which govern the mechanical aspect of human beings as well as of machines.--Rafaelgarcia 02:41, 26 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]