Disputatio:Historia Graeciae recentior

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I would suggest moving this to Historia Graeciae recentior, since modern Greece can't be rendered as Graecia recentior, and 'History of Modern Greece' really means 'Modern History of Greece' anyway, doesn't it? I also have qualms about Bellum independentiae Graecae, for two reasons: (i) independentia is not attested, (ii) I don't find an example of bellum with the cause or issue of the war added in the genitive - maybe someone else can? I would propose Bellum de Graecia liberanda or de liberatione Graeciae or possibly rebellio Graeca. Maybe someone has a better idea (which could also be applied to other wars of independance).--Ceylon 23:20, 11 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Bradley's Arnold dicit optimum verborum ordinem esse Recentior Graeciae historia. ¶ Re: "I don't find an example of bellum with the cause or issue of the war added in the genitive - maybe someone else can? " Nonnulli fontes habent Plinium scripsisse Bellum Germaniae (librum iamdudum amissum), sed probe dicis, amice: primus sensus Anglicae locutionis war OF profecto est war FOR, quod nostra lingua credo esse bellum ad, quamobrem Bellum ad Graeciam liberandam? Bellum ad Graeciam liberatam? IacobusAmor 01:22, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ita, nunc video. Sonat multum melius "ad Libertatem"! Oportet nobis dicere "Bellum ad Libertatem Americanam" et "Bellum ad Libertatem Graecam". --Rafaelgarcia 04:10, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Independentia is attested but like revolutio, it is a very late addition to latin vocabulary. Libertas does the job and I sould suggest "Bellum Libertatis Graecum" to follow the pattern of "Bellum libertatis Americanum". See also the discussion at Disputatio:Res novae; Disputatio:Dies Russiae for former discussions of this topic, including links to attestations, etc...--Rafaelgarcia 00:54, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bellum Graecum liberatum? IacobusAmor 01:22, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Mallo Bellum libertatis Graecum scriptum iri quam alia proposita, quamquam et Bellum de / pro libertate Graeciae (gestum) a bona Latinitate non abhorrere videtur.--Ceylon 08:32, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We have discussed (at Disputatio:Res novae?) whether it is useful to make a difference between the concepts of liberty and independence. It was because of that, I think, that I tried the neologistic Bellum independentiae Graecae here. I think the difference is important, even though the two may coincide in this particular case (all Greeks were surely freer after independence).
Therefore, although (so to speak) reserving my position on whether we need the word independentia, I think Bellum libertatis Graecum would be fine here. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:36, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, no, of course I'm wrong. Silly me. Only the ones who lived in the territory that became independent after the war were freer: a fairly small minority of Greeks, in fact. So I'm not so sure now. The war produced a formerly inexistent state called Greece, which was thenceforth autonomous-going-on-independent; it did not produce the freedom of (the majority of) Greeks. I think I would still want to call it, somehow, the war of Greek independence or of the independence of Greece. Rebellio Graeca, incidentally, might better describe the whole series of wars from the early 1800s (or before) to 1912; it doesn't (I think) give a suitable name for this war in particular. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:38, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ignosce mihi obloquenti, Andrea, qui puto genetivum libertatis potius ad causam quam ad eventum spectare belli. Non dubitabis quin hoc bellum de libertate Graecorum gestum sit, quamquam vota partim tantum adepti sunt.--Ceylon 16:18, 12 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Satis, Taprobane! Consentio. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:48, 13 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]