Disputatio:Simulacrum rei publicae
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De conceptu[fontem recensere]
The "puppet" is really the government, isn't it? I think I might call it "regimen suppositicium". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:41, 5 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- yes."regimen suppositicium" looks good. In English a clien state is not a puppet in that there is no pretense. Else, we could use cliens civitas? I'm planning to expand on this article.---Jondel (disputatio) 21:59, 5 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree with you about the difference between the two. I think "Civitas cliens" would be OK for "client state": Caesar already used "clientes" to mean the client states of Rome. If you preferred "civitas suppositicia" for "puppet state", I would go with you. But someone else may yet comment. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:25, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Lemma: Cliens (civitas) ? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:14, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- For vassal/client state, right?--Jondel (disputatio) 12:28, 8 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Reijo Pitkäranta, in suo Lexico Finnico-Latino-Finnico, regimen personatum dicit, sub verbo nukkehallitus ('puppet government'). In vicipaedia Anglica puppet government ad puppet state redirectum est. Si hanc agnitionem accipimus, de regimine personato loqui possumus. Sunt quidem, qui haec lemmata idem valere negent, sed hanc rem in medio relinquam. ¶ Mihi quidem civitas neurospastica non male sonat, cum eiusmodi civitatis rectores neurospastorum modo agere videantur. Praeterea haec figura in multis aliis linguis recepta est. Neander (disputatio) 14:16, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Quo lecto paginam ad "Civitas neurospastica" movi, aliis propositis pendentibus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:55, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- De "Verbum est metaphora." Ah! Traupman says a puppet in the figurative (metaphorical) sense is a minister, defined in turn as a 'servant, attendant, helper; waiter; agent, subordinate, tool'. Lemmata (as in the major-language wikis) that join the idea of a puppet with the idea of a state resemble calques, perhaps as opposed to a phrase less weird, like, say, civitas ministrans, or, even more abstractly, civitas subiecta. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:58, 8 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- A fons was recently added. I got that term from clicking a blank link, more mea, at the Northern Cyprus article.The sentence was translated from:The term is a metaphor which compares a state or government to a puppet controlled by an outside puppeteer using strings.. at the English. your feedback is always appreciated.--Jondel (disputatio) 12:14, 8 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps your' right Iacobus. I'll try to research this again. There is also the excellent suggestion regimen personatum of Neander.--Jondel (disputatio) 12:27, 8 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- "A fons was recently added". I have looked through the fons (if it's the same one). It does not give "civitas neurospastica". In fact it gives simulacrum rei publicae as an equivalent for the German term for this concept. That's good Latin, but whether it's a suitable title for an article, I don't know. Pitkäranta's "regimen personatum" has the advantage that a Latin reader, even if not knowing in advance any foreign terms for this concept, could guess its meaning. I would go for it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:33, 19 Iulii 2018 (UTC)
- De "Verbum est metaphora." Ah! Traupman says a puppet in the figurative (metaphorical) sense is a minister, defined in turn as a 'servant, attendant, helper; waiter; agent, subordinate, tool'. Lemmata (as in the major-language wikis) that join the idea of a puppet with the idea of a state resemble calques, perhaps as opposed to a phrase less weird, like, say, civitas ministrans, or, even more abstractly, civitas subiecta. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:58, 8 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Quo lecto paginam ad "Civitas neurospastica" movi, aliis propositis pendentibus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:55, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Lemma: Cliens (civitas) ? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:14, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree with you about the difference between the two. I think "Civitas cliens" would be OK for "client state": Caesar already used "clientes" to mean the client states of Rome. If you preferred "civitas suppositicia" for "puppet state", I would go with you. But someone else may yet comment. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:25, 6 Maii 2015 (UTC)
Latina in 17 Octubris,2017[fontem recensere]
Civitas neurospastica[1] est civitas quae libere praesentatur sed quippe cliens est ad externam pollentiam.[2] In nomine summatus est sed quippe potestate adventicia continetur.[3] Ornamenta externa vel habita conservat liberium?=>liberarum sicut nomen, vexillum, hymnum nationalis, constitutionem, corpora iurium at dicta sed re vera instrumentum autonomiae est aliae civitatis quae hanc dicionem creavit vel favet.[4] Civitas neurospastica legitimam esse non agnoscitur in ius gentium.[5] Verbum est metaphora quod civitate comparat ad neurospastum continentem a gubernatore externo nervis utente.[6]
Anglice[fontem recensere]
- The latin is supposed to be a translation of the English.Anyway the English translation or what the article wants to say is as follows. --Jondel (disputatio) 09:12, 17 Octobris 2017 (UTC)
A puppet state is a metaphor of is a state that is supposedly independent but is in fact dependent upona client state to an outside power.[1] It is nominally sovereign but effectively controlled by a foreign or otherwise alien power, preserves the external paraphernalia or appearance of independence like a name, flag, anthem, constitution, law codes and motto but in reality is an organ of another state which created or sponsored the government. Puppet states are not recognized as legitimate under international law.The word is a metaphor comparing a controlled puppet with a state governed by external strings.