Disputatio Usoris:Jondel

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Eheu, interlingua non possum uti, ac perfacile est lectu! Tecum loquar, arbitatro tuo, in latine, angice, aut hispanice, elegens de codice in meam paginam relicto linguas quibus possis loqui. Praeferro latine, aut anglice, ut possim loqui hispanice, ac non cum fluentia quam velim. Esto liberus mecum conloqui interlingua, modo non me expecta simile agere =]. Quaesitionem tuum in reddendo, latinam incepit discere in schola, praecipue ad Universitatem MariaeTerrae prope Vasingtoniam DC, ac lareatus sum, et nunc Latinitatem Unam doceo in schola publica. Liguistica maxime mihi placet, et latina modo est una praelatarum lingua mearum. De numeribus...bonus locus invenire numeros magnos est in Rebus Gestae Augusti. Apud Vicipaediam, utimur numeris arabicis in articulos scribendo. Sunt facliores legere, et parviores. Pax tibi, et mox conloquemur.--Ioshus Rocchio 02:17, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Non pote comprehender. I can't understand this yet. I 'll feed this to a machin translator.--Jondel 02:34, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

After careful examination I think I understand this. My (pathetic )translation:Hi! I don't use interlingua ac? but it is easy to read! Tecum? uh bleach...i give up..... returning to your question, I studied in school in University of Mary the Earth in Washington DC and I am larry now latin .....I am pleased with languges.. whatever... Rebus? With Wikipedia and a number of arabs i write in articles.They are facliores reading and small?parviores. Peace to your and mox? with talking?

Wow, I can't use interlingua, but it sure is easy to read. I will speak with you, its your choice, in latin, english, or spanish, choosing from the list of languages you left in my profile that you are able to speak. I prefer latin or english, as I know spanish, but not with the fluency I'd like. Feel free to write to me in Interlingua, but dont expect me to do the same =]. In answering your question, I started to study Latin in school, specifically at the University of Maryland near DC, but I have graduated, and now teach Latin One in middle school. I love linguistics, and latin is among my favorite languages. ABout numbers...the best place to find examples of big numbers is in Augustus' Res Gestae. At Vicipaedia, we use arabic numbers when writing articles. They are easier to read, and smaller. Peace, talk toy uo soon.--Ioshus Rocchio 03:23, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Index

Interlingua[fontem recensere]

Yes, it seems very easy to use, and if enough people knew it, would be a great lingua franca that people all over Europe could use. Its simplicity, however, is what I find, for lack of a better word, repulsive. It seems to me a forced mesh of languages that developed naturally, so it lacks all poeticality. Further, its grammar behaves differently than all languages it stemmed from (though admittedly, not unlike many of latin's descendants). What interests me about languages is the nuance, the turn of phrase, the intrinsic marks on a language's development as imposed by the collective psyche of its speakers. The other languages may be more difficult, but they are difficult for the reason that they were natural, and were learned as one lived, and not in the course of a day. With their difficulty comes the joy of poetry, and the pleasure of actually thinking the way someone else did, conceivably years after their languaged ceased to be used. I don't mean to slant interlingua, or you for studying it, it just seems that you are attracted to it for the very same reasons that I am not attracted to it.--Ioshus Rocchio 04:15, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

On the difficulty of latin...I'm reminded of a line from Ovid:
Perfer et obdura, dolor hic tibi proderit olim
--Ioshus Rocchio 05:58, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Bear and endure what was painful to you once and benefit/profit? (direct trans) proderit =>prodire -go forth  ? --Jondel 06:16, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Be tough and persevere...this pain will benefit you someday... (prodire literally to go forward, idiomatically benefit or be useful)--Ioshus Rocchio 14:12, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Article Philippinae[fontem recensere]

I think I understood your message in general, however, I have no idea of Interlingua. The word troppo seems to be important ... what does it mean? I had Latin in school for some years, but I've forgotten nearly everything. Luckily reading works in most cases. If you do not care that I do not understand Interlingua and just guess what you are meaning, you can write to me in Interlingua ... or Latin. ;-) For my answers you can choose between German, English and Perl. --Roland2 19:03, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the translation to English. I could see: Interlingua's concept seems to work ... I guessed nearly all of the content :-) BTW, what about having some Babel templates on your user page? --Roland2 22:05, 24 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

I placed the templates but there are none for interlingua and en:tagalog?--Jondel 05:22, 28 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Emergency response[fontem recensere]

Yes, declensions are an ugly ugly beast. My only recommendation for understanding them, and then learning to use them, is perseverance and stiff drink...very stiff. Honestly I don't know how the hell the Romans learned to use them thousands of years before whiskey was invented. It helps that the cases are named for what they mean... nominative is the naming case, genitive is the case for ownership and belonging (genus, generate), dative is the indirect object case because it indicates recipient of action (from do, dare to give), accusative from accusare, ablative from ab+past participle of ferro, tuli, latus so the case of separation or carrying away, vocative and locative kind of obvious. Just be glad it's not Estonian...they have 14-16 cases depending on whom you ask, not the 65-7 that Latin has.

And btw...feel free to ask any more specific questions about declensions in Latin, or in any of several other languages.--Ioshus Rocchio 04:57, 27 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Only when I can't find them in the online or hardprint dictionaries, latin aids etc. Gratias ago.--Jondel 06:39, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)

utuntur[fontem recensere]

If you want a specific thing done, and are not just expressing your thoughts, please write in Latin, Spanish, Italian, or English...I get the gist of Interlingua, but not the nuance.--Ioshus Rocchio 03:14, 2 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Utuntur is a form of utor, uti, usum est, to use. Ut is a particle and does not have any form other than ut. Delineatibus is not a word, as far as I know, delineatis is, being the ablative/dative plural perfect passive participle of delineo, delineare, delineavi, delineatum, which means the same thing as delineate in english, move from a line or path. As for dictionaries, I went through 3 copies of The New College Latin & English Dictionary by Bantam books during my undergraduate career. As for online, William Whitaker's Words are awesome. Say you enter utuntur...you get

ut.untur             V      3 1 PRES         IND 3 P    
utor, uti, usus sum  V  DEP   [XXXAX]  
use, make use of, enjoy; enjoy the friendship of (with ABL);

or for delineatibus

Two words            
May be 2 words combined (delineati+bus) If not obvious, probably incorrect
b.us                 N      4 1 NOM S C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 VOC S C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 GEN S C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 NOM P C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 VOC P C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 ACC P C                 
bus, bus  N  C   [BAXDO]    Early  lesser
ox, bull; cow; cattle (pl.); (odd form mostly in Varro);
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 GEN S M PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 GEN S N PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 NOM P M PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 VOC P M PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineo, delineare, delineavi, delineatus  V  TRANS   [XXXDO]    lesser
delineate; trace the outline of; (sketch out L+S);

and for an English=>Latin dictionary try Notre Dame's Page. I don't know of a good Latin=>English dictionary online. But I would do little guessing at forms, guess at emasnings, but not forms.--Ioshus Rocchio 03:52, 2 Martii 2006 (UTC)

phillipines[fontem recensere]

what does this mean, in spanish or english? et primus praesidens fuit post patrem suum, cui nomen Diosdado Macapagal.

Uh, it was supposed to mean ' the first president after her father whose name is Diosdado Macapagal'. Bassically I wanted to say that her father was a president too. Paterned after George Bushs latin description of the same.
Is this grammatically correct? 'Olim praesidens Diosdado Macapagal filliae est.'(  ?)--Jondel 01:57, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)
No... That means either (since Diosdado doesnt decline) the president of the daughter is once Diosdado... or once the praesident is of the daughter of Diosdado... or something else that doesn't make sense. I'm sorry, let me revise, I didn't know what you wetre trying to say.--Ioshus Rocchio 02:03, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Yeah...don't use J...juan is perfectly well latinized as Iohannes. I don't know what you mean by in San Juan Metro Manila...

She was born in San Juan(a district in ), Metro Manila. Nevermind the 'san Juan'. I'll just remove this(not significant). About the president's daugher thing: Praesedens veteri Diosdado Macapagal filliae est. Question filliae is genitive here isn't it (genetive:of the)?

'natus est ' is wrong?--Jondel 02:17, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)

She's a girl...--Ioshus Rocchio 02:26, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)

superbus[fontem recensere]

It actually means proud...magnificus, fantasticus, miranda, something like that. Looks like a good site.--Ioshus Rocchio 06:34, 15 Martii 2006 (UTC)

For begginers (like me). Makes latin learning possible and even interesting(this is blasphemy)!--Jondel 07:37, 15 Martii 2006 (UTC)

idioms[fontem recensere]

I just stumbled upon the page looking at recent changes, and those were some phrases I knew off the top of my head, and didn't have to sit down and think about. I'll take another look tonight.--Ioshus Rocchio 04:02, 22 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I made a correction (credere=> creare). Does nationalis decline like hostis? --Jondel 04:18, 22 Martii 2006 (UTC)

hymnus nationalis[fontem recensere]

Nah. Nationalis for one is an adjective, not a noun. For two, I don't really think hostis or nationalis look plural. Further, it's hymnus, not hymno, hymno would be dative or ablative. 3rd declension adjectives have singular nominative in is, unless neuter, when they end in e. Hymnus nationalis is fine. Hymno nationali would be ablative singular, from or because of the national anthem. Nothing singular ends in i in nominative.----Ioshus Rocchio 01:16, 23 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Gratias ago. Gotta read that chapter on adjectives.--Jondel 01:19, 23 Martii 2006 (UTC)

studuntur est[fontem recensere]

What does this mean, out of curiosity? I read it as, it is, they are zealed after? Studere means to zeal, but, studuntur is not a form of that exists, in any verb that I know of.--Ioshus Rocchio 01:40, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Anglicized latin. Don't be horrified. It 's my agenda for study. I try to memorize a few lines, phrases from model works. My method is a bit hard but it is easier for me to memorize sample sentences of grammar rules as a pattern then substitute different words; rather than memorize the grammar rule then calculate/formulate the sentence I would like to express. Worked well for me with Spanish and Japanese. Back to the question. It was supposed to mean: For study/Must study. --Jondel 02:05, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)
But where did you find something like studuntur est, from which to copy? And what, pray tell, is Anglicized at all about studuntur est? It is vulgarized, but in no way Anglicized. I'd memorize some patterns, were I you. Studendum/a(if you want to pluralize) est/sunt, or studium dandum est, I think you were after. Studeo, studere the verb, not studo, studere which has the definition I listed above.--Ioshus Rocchio 02:20, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Sorry again, I meant Latinized English. Studium dandum est seems fine.--Jondel 02:29, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Aemilius Aguinaldo[fontem recensere]

There are more pictures there: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Emilio_Aguinaldo --Roland2 20:22, 2 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Usor:Bocianski/experimentum[fontem recensere]

Hello, can you see that article and correct it? I don't know, how to name Kurówka River and Polish villages in Latino. In en-version and Polish version are also fotos, I don't know how to put in in article. Bocianski 07:01, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

But I'm just a beginner in Latin! Most of my latin articles are copy and paste from similar ones. I think Kurówka River would be Fluvia Kurokae.--Jondel 07:11, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)
Copy-paste, you say? Hm, well, and those villages and 1 town (Puławy)? What do you think about Garbovia, Markusovia, Pulawia? I have problem with Końskowola. Końskowola literaly in Polish language mean Will of Horse, but name (old version: Konińskawola) came from german "Woll" - (lat. liberta villa, see en:Wola (settlement)) and owner's patronimic name Dzierslavus de Konin. Bocianski 07:22, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC) And why Kurokae? ówka is sufiks added to Kurów. If Curovia, then Curoca or Curocae.

This might be useful but you probably have this link already:[catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookdown.pl Notre Dame English to Latin dictionary]. Will of the horse would be Voluntas Equus or Voluntas Equi? Liberta villa -> Vecus libertae (genitive) or Vecus Liberta(nominative agreeing with form of Vecus). Village of Konin->Vedus Coninsis. I usually check similar articles in English then go to the latin version. e.g. for University of Manila , I went to University of Harvard ->Latin version then copy , paste to Universitas Manilae then changed relevant info like dates etc. Of course I am studying latin on my own (Nominative, genitive, etc) and attempting to read classics.--Jondel 07:36, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

No, I haven't seen this link at this moment. Copy-paste, I know it :) I learned latin little, but many years ago, so now I copy and paste. But I have good understanding. I think that, I'll leave my "experimentum" and will seek some historical names on old maps or documents. If you want, you can correct my "experimentum", if you have better informations. You can also to show it to somebody. Will be better waiting for good info than to product bad article. Can I request for something? Can you translate en:Chrząchów and en:Kurówka River to spain or japan and other yours languages? For pay back for it, I can translate something for you to polish from En, Ru or Fr. Maybe my active English isn't excellent, but my translation are good. Seeya, Bocianski 08:13, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)
If you studied, then your latin should definitely be better than mine. I will look into your translation offers. See you.--Jondel 14:29, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Manilae[fontem recensere]

If it's "Manila University" i would say Maniliensis, but if it's the "University of Manila" I'd say Manilae.--Ioshus Rocchio 12:23, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Gratias ago. Confirms my translation.--Jondel 14:25, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

invitatio[fontem recensere]

Thanks for your emendations to my barbaric spanish!--Ioshus Rocchio 12:52, 24 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Your welcome. Actually I still need a lot of Spanish to learn but I'm sure of my corrections.--Jondel 00:47, 25 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Perl[fontem recensere]

Unfortunately ;-) Wikipedia uses PHP. However, you can use Perl when you download a database dump (see Vicipaedia:Praefatio) or when you use the www-mediawiki-client from CPAN, which - at the moment - does not work for the Latin WP because of a bug. I have made a script where I can make some investigations locally. I am using XML::Twig for parsing the XML dump. --Roland2 20:07, 6 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

gratias ago.--Jondel 04:36, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Word order[fontem recensere]

For many, that is the whole fun of latin. The poets used this to an awesome extent...for instance...a sentence like in pectore ferrum conditum vulnerato est, (in chest sword plunged wounded was, proper english word order: the sword was plunged in the wounded chest) where vulneratum modifies pectus, so that with the word order, it actually looks like the sword is "inside" the wounded chest. A very cool thing. Many neolatinists though default to a more sensible word order that fits the chomskyan programming their native language has imprinted upon their brain. Be bold, and creative with it, I say. The first site you sent me is sweet! You seem to find a dearth of those sites online, well done. But the second site...I'm not so sure why you sent that to me. The bible in english? No offense but that is hardly useful to me, and in my humble opinion, anyone else really. A silly little book it is, over which more people have been killed than anything else, that describes in one half the world of a backwards people and their wrathful god, and in the second half, god's schizophrenic realization that he should love his creations and the best way to do that is by sacrificing his only son, who really didn't have a whole lot useful to say either. Love thy neighbor sure, but if someone hits you on the cheek, hit him back...that makes much more sense to me. Further barely anything he said isn't covered by eastern philosophy, and by secular western philosophy, both before and after. The only creative thing he said was that the only way to the one true god was through him, and if you don't really like that one true god, it doesn't much help.--Ioshus Rocchio 13:24, 7 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Of course I should add that these are my own views entirely, and I don't mean to slight anyone else's! =]--Ioshus Rocchio 00:20, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

I have a knack cause I 'm trying to learn and can't help but search once in a while.

Bible: Please look again here Well, this is vulgar latin. It probably can't compare with classical. Still , this vulgar latin is practical everyday latin that was meant to be used and spoken.--Jondel 04:42, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
In principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
1:2. The same was in the beginning with God.
Hoc erat in principio apud Deum

1:3. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
Omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
1:4. In him was life: and the life was the light of men.
In ipso vita erat et vita erat lux hominum

1:5. And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Et lux in tenebris lucet et tenebrae eam non conprehenderunt

1:6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Fuit homo missus a Deo cui nomen erat Iohannes

Aha! The link you sent the first time only had english, my mistakte. Yes that is actually pretty sweet, I've only read parts of the bible in latin. Thanks.--Ioshus Rocchio 13:12, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)


No, it was my mistake sorry. Anyway, in learning a language, it is much easier for me to memorize phrases exemplifying the grammar then, sort of mental cut and paste with what you want to say rather than 'calculating ' the phrase according to grammar rules. I also memorize a few made up phrases using the grammar. Wonderful growth experience!--Jondel 23:22, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Oceania[fontem recensere]

Please, can you have a look at Oceania, {{Oceania}} and {{Asia}}? Some nations are listed on both templates. Thanks! --Roland2 19:47, 12 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Roland, it is hard to demarcate these countries(Philippines, Indonesia, New Guinea, etc) and may belong to both. Although , for example Australia is a separate continent, I sometimehttp://la.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_sig.png Your signature with timestamps see them participating in Asian events. --Jondel 05:10, 13 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

This is sometimes true for Australia/Austria, too ;-) Shouldn't we add a comment to those countries in the list which we put intentionally both into Oceania and Asia? Similar situation with some countries in Asia/Europe. --Roland2 06:19, 13 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
That would be informative and very good. Why not start with one and I will make the same comment on others.--Jondel 08:56, 15 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

I will ask Ioshus if this is correct: Etiam membrum Oceania/Asia est. (Also a member of Oceanico).--Jondel 08:56, 15 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Roland 2 I've already started.--Jondel 00:10, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

This looks nice! :-) --Roland2 00:34, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
Thanks :D --Jondel 04:29, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
I've put the footnote inside the frame ... hopefully even nicer ... or just revert it. ;-) --Roland2 09:01, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

De Vicipaedia Latina[fontem recensere]

Salve Jondel,

Scribere volo relationem de Vicipaedia latina (pro commentario periodico nomine "vox latina"). Mihi gaudio est, si alias quaestiones respondere vis:

  • 1) Quid est Vicipaedia?
  • 2) Quomodo Vicipaedia differt ab lexicis aliis?
  • 3) Quomodo Vicipaedia latina differt ab Vicipaediis aliarum linguarum?
  • 4) a) Quomodo lemmata cum argumento falso vel ficto scripta prohiberi possunt? b) Quomodo lemmata in falsa lingua latina scripta prohiberi possunt?
  • 5) Quam utilitatem Vicipaedia mihi dat?
  • 6) Quas alias paginas latinas in interrete commendare potes?
  • 7) Ullam quaestionem desideras? Aliquas annotationes facere vis?

Gratias tibi ago pro labore tuo, --Lupambulus 16:35, 15 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Delenda[fontem recensere]

Do you want to delete Usor:Jondel/Gladiator(pellicula) or did you save it? It contains the {{delenda}} template ... --Rolandus 21:29, 3 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

Let me remove the delenda template. I was scared the article would be deleted so I made a personal copy.--Jondel 02:36, 4 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
Ok! I assumed this ... --Rolandus 07:15, 4 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

possibility mood[fontem recensere]

You are thinking of mood, not tense. And yes and no . . . Latin has the subjunctive, which is often used to express possibility. This is called potential subjunctive in Latin. Your sentence, though, needs a little work:

Forsan Philippinas est maniola indicatur a Ptolemeus.
"Perhaps the (accusative?) Phillippines is maniola, is indicated by Ptolemeus (nominative?)"

Just correcting your sentence, we would have

Forsan Phillippinae sint maniola a Ptolemeo indicata.

Not knowing at all what maniola is might be a problem, but I would change it further, still.

Fortasse Phillippinae sint maniola quam Ptolemeus descripsit.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps! --Ioscius (disp) 04:20, 10 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

No no. accusative is only used for direct object. Here Phillippinae are the subject, so they must be in the nominative case, as I have changed. Similarly, "a" takes ablative, not nominative. --Ioscius (disp) 13:29, 10 Septembris 2007 (UTC)
Incidentally, his spelling seems to be variable in this conversation, but he usually answers to Ptolemaeus! Andrew Dalby 14:02, 10 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Ioscius and Andrew, you insights are very informative!--Jondel 04:47, 13 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Query[fontem recensere]

Jondel, I don't understand your addition to Lingua Cebuanensis: "Maxima loquentium linguarum incertum est nam, auctores hac prodidere." Can you tell me in English what you mean? Andrew Dalby 10:00, 21 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)

(That Cebuano) is the most(maxima) of languages(linguarum genitive /plural) being spoken(loquentium - present participle/genitive) is uncertain (incertum est)but (nam) proponents(auctores) hac prodidere (are saying this)- (It is uncertain that Cebuano is the most spoken language, but some people are proposing/insisting this). This is paterned after "Forte an dolo principis incertum est sed utrum que prodidere. " which I read somewhere but memorized.--Jondel 14:25, 21 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
It's by Tacitus (ann. 15.38), whose prose is unfortunately both one of the best and the most difficult in Latin literature. Nam means therefore for, and loquentium means of the speaking (not: spoken) ones, loqui being a verbum deponens. What do you think of: Sunt qui contendant maximam populi partem hac lingua uti, quod pro certo autem probari non potest. ("There are some who claim that the majority of the people use this language, which, however, cannot be confirmed as certain.")--Ceylon 14:54, 21 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
Ceylon, its very good. Pardon me since I'm still a tironis(beginner) in latin. Btw, sorry about nam, I meant 'but' (sed?). I think I would like to use that. What tips would you have to learning latin? I'm trying to read the first year latin in my university library, although I'm an alumni already.--Jondel 15:10, 21 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
There are various ways to say but: sed, autem, verum .... People usually start off with a primer (as you do) to learn the grammar, and then read Caesar's De bello Gallico and some Cicero (In Verrem or Cato maior) first. Alternatively, you might want to go for Livy or Seneca's Epistulae morales, which might be more interesting, but also a little harder.--Ceylon 15:28, 21 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
Yikes! :{ I still have a long way to go. Btw, I was reading just yesterday that to use the indirect statements you would use accusative + infinitive which you showed (maximam-acc, uti-infinitive)very well. De bello Gallico, who doesn't know "Gallia est omnis divisa in partis tres.....". I'll make the Changes to the cebuano article later as you suggested.--Jondel 15:36, 21 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
An afterthought: An easy and interesting book to start reading Latin, especially in a Vicipaedia context, is Vitae excellentium imperatorum by Cornelius Nepos, which I am sure you can also find online (e.g. on the Perseus Project).--Ceylon 07:28, 22 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
Vehementer gaudeo. Gratias ago! I will look at this now. Cheers.--Jondel 08:23, 22 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)

Nexus, -us[fontem recensere]

Xaverius Jondel s.p.d. Vidi mutationem paginae Sichismus. Notate nexus est nomen declinationis quartae, ita nominativus pluralis -us est. Vale--Xaverius 00:25, 16 Maii 2008 (UTC)

Jondel please note above that Nexus is a fourth declension noun!--Rafaelgarcia 01:49, 16 Maii 2008 (UTC)

Buon Natale[fontem recensere]

(merry Christmas) to you and thanks. I also appreciate much your work and wish you the best for 2009--Massimo Macconi 18:16, 24 Decembris 2008 (UTC)

Felix Dies Natalis, amice! IacobusAmor 01:38, 25 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Gratias ago, amices. Same to you guys!

Today's vandal[fontem recensere]

You're trying valiantly to repair the damage, amice, sed puto hunc scelestum esse celeriorem quam te! IacobusAmor 03:57, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Could you block him? I happen to be on my day off.--Jondel 04:05, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
No, I'm not a magistrate, so I don't have special powers. The magistrates must be sleeping. A perfect time for a vandal to get busy! IacobusAmor 04:06, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Ayyayy. Well maybe some tekkie magistrate could autoreverse all the vandals. Uh in the meantime..... we'll just have just have to dothis manually. Uhh I happen to be an administrator in a couple of other language wikis.--Jondel 04:12, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Maybe UV can do it. There might be a way to reverse them all at once. Surely there should be! Et gratias Iustino pro supplicio sumpto de hoc usore ignoto! IacobusAmor 04:18, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
I've blocked him, but I'm afraid I don't know how to autoreverse. --Iustinus 04:19, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Gratias ad omnis(?? correct). Well,uh I think there is just a few vandals left to revert.--Jondel 04:26, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Omnibus. And you're welcome, tibi gratias for doing the grunt work. --Iustinus 04:28, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Gratias ad Iacobo , Iustino et mihi ( he he... ). --Jondel 04:37, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Meas gratias addere velim! Optime fecisti, Jondel. --Fabullus 07:29, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Et ego. Dormiebam! Andrew Dalby 11:30, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Ego quoque! --Amphitrite 12:06, 29 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
Babae! Your welcome, etiam Fabullus, Andrew Dalby et Amphitrite.--Jondel 22:13, 30 Decembris 2008 (UTC)

Re: Lechus Walesa[fontem recensere]

Hello! Thank you so much for your help :) Best wishes, Patrol110 07:49, 22 Septembris 2009 (UTC)

You welcome! Anytime.--Jondel 08:23, 22 Septembris 2009 (UTC)

Res Savariae[fontem recensere]

Martinus Jondel salutem plurimam dicit

Ad primum tibi gratias ago permaximas pro emendationibus tuis, et scire debes me parvulum Anglice loqui posse. Mihi rogare licetne, num "Moravians" (qui a me Bohemicis comparati sunt) significationem aliam Latinam habet? Estne? In mea re, quod scripsisti, pagina disputationis, hoc est coaria in convertabo e Hungaria in Latinam.

"Átmeneti morva uralom után 900 körül a várost elfoglalták a magyarok."

Bohemico brevi tempore recto, circum 900 urbs a Hungaris occupata est. Vale --Martinus567 08:05, 12 Martii 2010 (UTC)
Salve Martine, ut vales? Tibi servire mihi placet. Ecce, timeo te dicere me modo esse sextam annos discendis latinitatis. Sentio me non magristum esse quem dicere latinam an non fuisset.
Rediens sententiam tuam, fortunas nobis est qua Medio Aevo(medivalis) Vaticanoque sunt fontes plurimus Moriviae aut aliis latinabus utroque interetilis. Iam dixi Savariae disputatione de Hoffman Vaticanaque. Iam scis situm hoffman. Nobis est Magna Moravia hic vicipedia. Significationem aliam Latinam habere non credo sed non est territorium adcurate idem! Nescio te respondere recte ideoneoque sed spero sic fecisse.Qui est coaria? Rursum rediens, ex pagina disputationis Savariae, istem Hungaria sententia translatio, credo esse:"Moravia circa 900 anno brevis temporis a/ab Hungaris occupata est." Qui opinas? Vale.--Jondel 07:38, 13 Martii 2010 (UTC)
Salve! Gratias, sic iam bene est.--Martinus567 11:15, 13 Martii 2010 (UTC)
Babae!--Jondel 02:53, 15 Martii 2010 (UTC)

tuae emendationes - your corrections[fontem recensere]

Flag of Rome.svg

Martinus tibi, Jondel, s.p.d.!

Quod tuas mutationes pertinet apud rem Savaria denominatam, probemata sunt:

notus ac coitus non est nomen adiectivum, sed nomen substantivum. hoc problema est etiam "cultum" pertinens.

Valeto.

English language.svg

Dear Jondel!

As for your correction in my Savaria, I mean that there are some problems.

notus ac coitus is'nt adjectiv, but noun. this is same with the word "cultus".

Goodbye! --Martinus567 12:50, 21 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

But they are used as adjectives. e.g. they describe the subject.(?)--Jondel 13:24, 21 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
Flag of Rome.svg bene, emendavi, recte dixisti notum ac ciotum pertinens. Sed cultus (-ús m) non est declinationis secundae, hoc est non possumus e vocabulo "culta"m creare.
English language.svg Ok, I have corrected "notus ac coitus," but we cannot create the same with "cultus," because it belongs to a different declension. --Martinus567 18:31, 24 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
Bene. Gratias tibi aliquam novam latinium ego docui!(Ok. Thanks to you, I learned something new about latin!)--Jondel 09:10, 25 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

In response to your comment on my page[fontem recensere]

Hello! I can understand that completely - what I don't understand is why English titles are used for things (such as The Legend of Zelda) which should be in Japanese (Zeruda no Densetsu). Japanese has about as much to do with Latin as English does, minus a few load-words, so I don't see why English is preferred when the English title is itself a translation Nikolaos 01:23, 10 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

I see. Sorry I totally misunderstood. There is a 'movere' tab available which everyone should absolutely feel free to use. I can move it too if you want. 'Zeruda no Densetsu' ? By the way, I've lived in Japan for 12 years and frequently use Japanese in my daily job.--Jondel 00:55, 11 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

IEEE[fontem recensere]

Ciao. I did some corrections on your page IEEE: collegium is a neutre word therefore internationale non internationalis, in Novo Eboraco (because you are speaking about a static situation, if there were instead a movement "eo in Novum Eboracum")--Helveticus montanus 06:30, 9 Octobris 2010 (UTC)

Ciao. I highly appreciate your corrections. I 've learned to be careful with the agreement of using neutral verbs(conditum, collegium). Please, however, if the latin is not too horrible, don't rate it as "4" or at least give a clue on how it can be improved, grammar, adjective- noun agreement, etc. I also, do want to have great latin quality in the articles afterall. Gratias ago. --Jondel 06:37, 9 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
Dear Jondel for propagationibus I agree with you perhaps a dative can be used as well as a genetive. I used however the genetive according to the use in Romance languages: le vie di diffusione, les voies de diffusion etc. I disagree instead with IEEE. Could you explain me what does it mean Commissiones Notabiles IEEE et formata suis? II have inserted a rate because I believe it will be useful so that people who can write a better Latin then mine (therefore I cant give more clues, I have the feeling the language is not correct, but unfortunately I am not able to correct it, I repeat my Latin is very poor) can correct further my/your pages, but I respect your point and I do not add again the rating.
Ok. If you do feel it can be improved, do please add the rating. I guess I would like to see them improve but sometimes I feel this is the best that can be done. I fear when someone else "improves" the meaning gets lost. I worked as a professional translator for Japanese, Spanish and English. I am doing my best to improve my latin. The romance language I am very familiar with is Spanish. Commissiones Notabiles IEEE et formata suis: from English: Notable Committees and their formats (Many new technology specifications/formats are decided upon by these sub organizations of IEEE). --Jondel 08:35, 9 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
Dear Jondel I add a -2 rating (sorry for -4 but I have some problem in understandig the scale of judgement the descriptio of -3 seems to me more critical then -4) . For the sentence Notable Committees and their formats also in English it's difficult for me to understand its real meaning, I will ask therefore our friends in Taberna if they approve your translation or they believe it can be improved.I thank you for your work I believe you are doing a good job. I have always believed that in Latin adjectives (internationalis, -e) et verbs (conditus, a, um) must always agree with the name they have to do, isn't correct? Ciao--Helveticus montanus 09:02, 9 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
Sub Collaborationes Pro Formatta? Thank you for the compliments. I admire your work as well. Yes, adjectives and the verb(conditus functioning as an adjective) must agree in gender.I've made changes in the meantime. Our Taberna friends are more than welcome to improve. Actually anybody as per wiki regulations. --Jondel 23:45, 9 Octobris 2010 (UTC)

Nagasacium - cupiditas[fontem recensere]

tunc cupiditates novas Iaponiam ad bellos cum Sericis anno 1895 et Sarmata anno 1905 duxerunt. Nam cupiditas, -is et ergo nominativus pluralis cupiditatES et verbum plurale duxERUNT--62.202.2.151 08:41, 18 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
Fas es; me dolet. Licet me emendem.Gratias vero ago.
Iam emendationem fecisti, gratias ago.--Jondel 08:56, 18 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
Errrr.... cupiditates novAE. bellum, belli, n, ergo ad bella. in bella etiam potius. -- Ioscius 09:37, 18 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
Hercle!! Rursum gratiam ago.--Jondel 09:50, 18 Octobris 2010 (UTC)

De viro qui mavult sermonem Anglorum[fontem recensere]

Mi Jondel. Video disputationem tuam cum viro Dacoromanico de linguis francis, et nunc te scribo Latine, ne nos intellegat. Si vero is malefactor est, non licet nobis cum eo disputare. Iam Rafael noster hanc rem dixit in pagina disputationis sua. Si iste vir solum insidias creare vult, melior est si nos omnes eum ignoremus. Et tandem, video hanc rem et memoro rem a SeaHen disputatam. Consilium meum tibi, simpliciter eum neglege.--Xaverius 10:32, 11 Novembris 2010 (UTC)

Etiam, iste vir expectat argumentos creare (ut videmus in pagina sua: Please direct flak to My English userpage. Certe si no malefactor, puto eum discordiae et dissentionis cultorem esse.--Xaverius 10:38, 11 Novembris 2010 (UTC)
Ita. Nobis malefactore non disputandum est. Hercle! Me dictis latinis elatus sum! Qualibet conor ne eum disputem aut tales malefactoribus et ut me monuisses gaudeo. Forsan aliquando opus est tibi me monere ne obliviscar sed per me ipsum ego memini conor serio. Nexo de SeaHenis me dato gaudeo et valde fruor. Non auctoritates latinitates esse bene scio et caveandum et cura nobis est. Novam latinam creare non velim sed progrediendum nobis est. Rafaeli me paenitet.--Jondel 16:35, 11 Novembris 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Mr. Jondel[fontem recensere]

Hi, my name is Erico, and I want to thank you by correcting my text (Past Masters). I know Latin is a very hard language, and my skills in this language is still far far away from perfection. I do not use Latin for writing since College times, only reading, so, sorry by the imperfections. So, one more time, thank you very much.

Erico Molero. São Paulo, Brazil.

Exoptatus. Tueri si tibi palaceat norma et mores.--Jondel 06:08, 10 Decembris 2010 (UTC)

Latinitas templates[fontem recensere]

You mustn't remove them, Jondel, before the Latin has been improved. I agree with Erico above -- "Latin is a very hard language", and it is true, you know, that the Latin you write needs correction. It's true of all of us: why, you have corrected my Latin more than once :) We all need the advice of others. Andrew Dalby 22:04, 28 Decembris 2010 (UTC)

How can you put templates asking for corrections if you don't know exactly what needs to be corrected? If you did know at least give guidance because I doo take the pain to improve on a permant level. With templates, very few would really make the effort to improve them too, if they are needed. Cur cura tibi est when it is highly possible few will read them anyway? When the articles get corrected they miss out on points which I feel need to be expressed. At leased I would request some pointers where grammar points need to be improved. I don't want to be presumptious but I feel I am doing my fairs shair of studies and I feel I am getting confident. I know you are way ahead of me but I do have years here since I first started. Why the templates? Does it really help? Many times the same idea was simply expressed in a different way but the original grammar was really correct and it jars me to see it changed. We don't have a standard. Show that certain grammar rules where broken and you can put those templates. In the meantime I am putting my outmust effort to perfect the grammar. Why does Latin have to be a "hard language"? That mindset is what is killing the language and preventing it's spread. If you feel the templates are required,let me at least check (at my level of latin) that there are no grammar rules broken, then if it is still needed perhaps a -2 would be ok.In good faith. --Jondel 13:53, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
You know, really, that it doesn't work like that. It isn't personal. The aim is to have good pages, in Latin that all Latin readers can understand. If someone sees a page that needs changing, they may either change it themselves, or mark it as needing improvement. It isn't Jondel's page: they aren't criticising Jondel: they just think the page needs to be improved. When we write on Vicipaedia, we all expect this to happen.
If someone writes an explanation on the talk page about what needed changing, that's a bonus! It helps us to learn! But you can't demand that this must happen every time.
I'm sure you're getting better, and you will get better still each time you look at how your pages have been edited and try to understand the reasons. Andrew Dalby 14:13, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
I want to learn but you have to show you want to learn as well. Can I ask, is the general opinion(maybe yours) is that for example, we can not use per + acc to mean 'by'? I feel that many are not looking beyond the other meanins or uses of particle words an grammar. e.g. per must only be used to mean "through" and never to mean "by" there are others. --Jondel 14:18, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
You seem to be asking the same question on my userpage too. It isn't ideal to study one foreign language through another foreign language: as you will admit, you have problems with both English and Latin. Well, there are possibly one or two cases where Latin "per + acc." can be translated by English "by". But that doesn't help you. English is not relevant: you are writing Latin, and the real purpose is to write Latin that other people can understand. If in general you use "per + acc." to mean the same as English "by", people will not understand you. Andrew Dalby 14:42, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
Only sometimes may we use per to mean 'by'. Secundum Gildersleeve: "Per. Of Space, through ; of Time, during ; of Cause, owing to ; of Instrument, by (both persons and things) ; of Manner, by, in." None of these uses fits the use to which you tried to apply per : the agent of a passive verb, for which Latin uses a/ab/abs. Instrument, Manner, and Agency are different concepts in Latin; of course other languages may collapse them together, as English can with by. ¶ The reason people don't always give you specific advice is that doing so has costs that they choose not to pay. Writing this passage, for example, has deprived Vicipaedia of an article on an Oceanic orchid. IacobusAmor 14:46, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
It is rare but still correct. Please don't blame for lossing that article. I've lost a lot of precious articles on two different wikis(English and Spanish). The sentence which eludes me right now but I memorized by heart is "Re publica per me defensa nobis eorum benevolentiam conciliavit." From the grammar book I have 'per deos' by the gods, I will try to avoid usage in this way. I 'm sorry for any trouble. ad benevolentiam conciliemus. I have to go now.--Jondel 15:28, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
Things that are "correct" for one author, period, style, or purpose might not be "correct" for another. What do you mean by the notion of "losing" articles? So far as one can tell, the articles you've worked on are still here. IacobusAmor 11:52, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
Not. The articles were, according to them, not notable. Vicky Belo is a big celebrity here but when unacceptable as an Encyclopedia article at the Spanish. SSS-PC is a type of Operating System which got lost at the English. Also at the English, certain articles about Edgar Cayce where lost. I am very upset about those. Helveticus is upset that through me he lost an article. I'm upset that my articles have templates that are not in good latin when I'm pretty sure they are pretty good. I will try to stick to grammar forms which most are familiar with. --Jondel 12:06, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
"Here' = 'in Vicipaedia'. IacobusAmor 12:16, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
Ok. Anyway, there is no need to use 'per' in the instrumentative sense and will avoid it in this way. I would like to focus on contributing in the standard wiki-acceptable latin. --Jondel 12:25, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
Dear Jondel, I'm sorry that I do not have always the time to check the vocabularies and the grammars and to make corrections. Therefore, having the feeling that a page (example Lobjan) needed some corrections, I made the first changes and then put the template. Frankly I do not believe that -2 was the right measure at the beginning, but, on reflection, I think -5 was too lowHelveticus montanus 18:21, 29 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
If you do not have the time then how do you know the Latin is bad? Where do you base it? I started out as a beginner but we (you too)both have many years now. I occasionally forget and make typographical mistakes but that is rare now.--Jondel 12:06, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)
Jondel, it is necessary to be prepared to learn from others. Of course it's difficult for you if you have to learn Latin through English, when English is not your mother tongue, but we are ready to help. Like Iacobus, I don't understand about the lost articles. I don't think your articles here on Vicipaedia have been deleted. Andrew Dalby 19:17, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)

I agree and I thank you for your kind patience. I would appreciate you guidance specially with the templates, specifically specific details, where those templates based if you have the time. This may demand too much time and effort but I will make efforts to learn them thoroughly. I occasionally commit typos and careless mistakes and will do my best to avoid.Best regards and Happy New Year LETS PARTYEEE!--Jondel 06:10, 1 Ianuarii 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your new message, Jondel. I am glad to hear from you. Of course I will do my best to help. Andrew Dalby 13:45, 6 Ianuarii 2011 (UTC)

Anonymous[fontem recensere]

I agree with you. In the future I will avoid to do corrections as anonimous Helveticus montanus 20:59, 30 Decembris 2010 (UTC)

Balett[fontem recensere]

Amo hominibus adiuvare. In Smithi dictionario Anglolatino dat verbum quoddam: pantomimus. Problema doleo nostrum esse, 1. pantomimum iam habemus, 2. pantomimus latinificatio (=latinizatio) est duarum rationum (forma antiqua ac hodierna), hocque in Vicipaedia, in encyclopaedia nostra, difficile habitum est. Melius esset, si balettum vel saltatio balletica nominarentur, fontem autem etiam ego non inveni. --Martinus Poeta Juvenis 13:01, 8 Ianuarii 2011 (UTC)

Gratias. Bene. Putabam in dictionario Russo-Latina vel Hungaria-Latina fuerit. Non est exactus sed magis adiuvat. Sententiam saltationem includendum est. Enim. Est utrumque saltatio et pantomimum. Est de origo latina vulgare 'ballo' invicem de Graeca. Opus est per normam inscribere[ "Ballet" est verbum anglice...]quod non in dictionario est pro Ballet. Post aliquis mutare potest ad saltatio balletica etc.--Jondel 13:19, 8 Ianuarii 2011 (UTC)
Me paenitet. Fas es! Videtur possumus uti pantomimus. dictionarios Anglolatinorum pleno habeo sed invenire non possum "Ballet". Gratias!!--Jondel 13:31, 8 Ianuarii 2011 (UTC)

Thanks[fontem recensere]

Thanks for your note on my page, Jondel -- I have replied now! Andrew Dalby 13:54, 23 Februarii 2011 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. Wonderful discussion!Jondel 12:04, 1 Martii 2011 (UTC)

pediludium[fontem recensere]

Thanks for helping watch that page, but I strongly suspect the anonymous user who erased that paragraph is usor:Brandus, responding to my comment that I wouldn't have advised him to put it up yet. He keeps acting on the page without letting me know what he's doing. --Iustinus 06:56, 10 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Your welcome. Is he your student? When my article is not ready,I ussually work on them in my own workspaces using this:[[/mynewlatinarticle]] at my agenda workspace. --Jondel 07:41, 10 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Noli me tangere[fontem recensere]

Jondel, I am going to write an article about this Latin phrase. Can you explain to me -- if you know! -- why José Rizal's novel has this title? Does it reflect something in the story, or something about one of the characters? The reason isn't clear to me from the English page about the book. Thanks! Andrew Dalby 20:51, 16 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Salve Andrew. Rizal perceived Philippine society as being afflicted with a form of very delicate social cancer and alluded to the words of Jesus Christ to Mary Magdalene when he ressurected and before his ascension. Cheers.Jondel 05:24, 17 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
The status quo(of the Spaniards), specially was something that wasnt to be touched or disturbed.--Jondel 05:28, 17 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Jondel, very interesting, I will add that information to my page. Andrew Dalby 12:37, 22 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Philippine provinces[fontem recensere]

Would you prefer that those "non-stipula" new pages be deleted, or would you like to improve them a bit? It's your choice, I think, Jondel! Andrew Dalby 12:37, 22 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I would like to leave them until I can beef them up, only then would I like them removed. Of course, others are always welcome to add and improve. With the other provinces, please remove or delete them if the names are wrong. I will probably revert them to the original (English) name while trying to find latin sources. However as you can see, it takes too much time.--Jondel 12:44, 22 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Cursus electronicus[fontem recensere]

I would like to move this article to the above title as per above discussion. Feel free to do it or suggest a better title. Mutare velim ad titulum suprum. --Jondel 08:29, 17 Iulii 2011 (UTC)

Dear Jondel there is a missunderstanding circuitus is a good translation for the new word circuit, circuito etc. , always from Castiglioni:
circŭĭtŭs, ūs, m., 1 il girare intorno, giro: longo circuitu, con un lungo giro, CAES. e a.; pons magnum circuitum habebat, il ponte richiedeva un lungo giro, CAES. B. C. 1, 63, 2; milium amplius quinquaginta circuitu, con un giro, facendo un giro di più di 50 miglia, CAES. B. G. 1, 41, 4; rotazione degli astri, CIC. e a.; per meton., circuito, circonferenza, perimetro: vallum in circuitu XV milium, palizzata di 15 miglia di circonferenza, CAES. B. G. 2, 30, 2; minorem circuitum habebant, avevano un perimetro meno esteso, CAES. B. C. 3, 44, 5;
is the word currens which does not exit. Therefore I wouldn't change the title of the page.--Helveticus montanus 08:36, 17 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
aah, ok.--Jondel 08:45, 17 Iulii 2011 (UTC)

punctus[fontem recensere]

Dear Jondel, good point :-) ! You have done a very careful research. In any case I will ask to the other users to see what they think about it. Ciao--Helveticus montanus 18:49, 19 Iulii 2011 (UTC)

Great! I look forward to it!--Jondel 11:12, 20 Iulii 2011 (UTC)

natus loco nobili[fontem recensere]

I apologize for locu, the correct sentence is natus loco nobili, nato da nobile famiglia or born in an aristocratic family) , CIC. Arch. 4; Div. 1, 89. I have not given to your last page any mark about the level of the Latin language. I have already noticed this is a behaviour you not apprecciate, from my point of view wrongly. Actually anybode of us could always ameliorate with judgement of the others, but I respect your choices. Ciao. --Helveticus montanus 17:03, 23 Octobris 2011 (UTC)

Hugo Eduardus Blair[fontem recensere]

UV didn't grade that article after you had worked on it, Jondel. He graded it before.

There's a moral here (as Aesop might have said). Anyone can grade articles, including you. When you have improved a page, you yourself can revise the grading. I would advise you not to put {{L1}} on such pages, because you will agree with me that you often make errors in Latin (as most of us do). I would advise you, when you have improved a page, to put the grade {{L-1}} on it -- meaning, someone else needs to come and check this.

On the Hugo Eduardus Blair page, which you have improved, there are some things you still need to work on. For example:

  • "Aliciae Vanderbilt Morris". I don't know whether you wanted to put her in the genitive or the dative, but, whichever it is, the word "conditrice" should be in the same case: it isn't yet.
  • The usual meaning of "ad" is not until (though it is a possible meaning). For until [someone's] death it is clearer to say "usque ad ... mortem".
  • "Erat" is not impossible in narrating someone's life, but it is a tense with a strong meaning (he used to be, he was being, he was ... at the time when something else happened). In general it's better to use the simple perfect tense ("fuit") for narrative.
  • I don't know what you mean by "fuit commissus". That is a very rare tense in Latin. "commissus est" is the perfect; "commissus erat" is the pluperfect.
  • "manus dextera" certainly won't do: we have to change that. The correct form is "dextra", but anyway I'm not aware that this phrase is used in Latin with the metaphorical sense known in English. Unless someone knows better, I'd change it to "primus adiutor" or something like that.

It's no good asking me to do this all the time: I'm busy, I write Latin without checking grammars, and I don't enjoy telling other people why they are wrong. But I've done it this time ... All good wishes, Jondel :) Andrew Dalby 10:29, 25 Novembris 2011 (UTC)

Andrew, I thank you very much for your kind patience. I worry sometimes that some kind of obscure cult for latin may be growing here. I agree and see my mistakes. I do see "ad"+accusative used as 'until' when I read Classics, in fact a lot of "not usual" usages are plain. (I have one Loeb book of Cicero). I remember somebody correcting an article I wrote, to a "fuit +sus/(supine)" form and so I though it waS OK. The low ratings are discouraging. Thank you again. --Jondel 11:46, 25 Novembris 2011 (UTC)

fenestra[fontem recensere]

Gratias agō vōbīs. 68.55.112.31 04:41, 2 Martii 2012 (UTC)

Libenter!Jondel (disputatio) 04:45, 2 Martii 2012 (UTC)

Siphonarius[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. That new paragraph looked like machine translation to me -- it's a telltale sign when some words have not been translated because they were not in the database! So I have deleted it. Of course, if you want to work on it later, that's fine, and you can restore it from the history. OK? Andrew Dalby 12:20, 23 Martii 2012 (UTC)

Ok and Good work Andrew! Jondel (disputatio) 16:45, 24 Martii 2012 (UTC)

Aliquod[fontem recensere]

Mea pagina usoris? Si ita, ¿por que, Jondel? Por que?

Donatello (disputatio) 13:45, 25 Aprilis 2012 (UTC)

De que hablas?--Jondel (disputatio) 22:59, 25 Aprilis 2012 (UTC)

Rogatio[fontem recensere]

Salve,

gratias vobis agere volo quia meum nuntium, quem rursus infra ostendeo, in taberna correxistis (modulum similem ac {{Quote}} nescio) :

____

Salve (errores erunt ! Eas corrigere potestis, gratissimus ero),

volim solum scire an hic sint signa similia ac "Featured article" in en.wikipedia (exempli gratia). Quaesivi, non inveni.

Gratias vobis ago, Fsojic (disputatio) 21:39, 18 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

Corrigentes consiliorum meorum(Latina mea faltae multa etiam sunt. Quamquam velim suadere infra.... --Jondel (disputatio) 03:56, 19 Iunii 2012 (UTC)):
Salve (errores eruntsunt ! Amabo vos /Si vobis placeatEas corrigere potestis,et gratissimus ero, egosim ),
volimVelim solum scire an hic sint signares similia ac "Featured article" in en.wikipedia (exemplia gratia). Quaesivi, non sed invenivi.

____

Sed quaedam rogationes habeo :

Primo : Amabo vos corrigere aut Si vobis placeat corrigere dicere volebas ? Sed quid et addidistis ?

Secundo : Quid ero abstulitis ut potius sim poneretis ?

Tertio : Quid exempli gratia cum genitivo non servatis ?

Quarto : invenire ad perfectum non est inveni ? venire, venio, veni, ventum ?

Gratias vobis ago. Fsojic ~ Errores meos corrigatis (disputatio) 15:59, 19 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

Salve Fsojic. Ut vales? Laetus te cognoscere.
Clare erravi et spero ne offendas?
Primo:Non agnovi futurm indicativum de esse". Me paenitet Possui et , ut duos sensos clarandum disparet.
Secundo: Non agnovi futurm indicativum de esse". Me paenitet.
Tertio: Erravi. Me paenitet. Genitivo optimus est ut indicat norma.
Quarto: Erravi. Non agnovi perfectum de invenire. "inveni" optimus est.Jondel (disputatio) 00:09, 20 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

Responsum[fontem recensere]

Salve,

Errores facimus omnes, primus ego ! Non offendor. Difficillimus est scribere loquique Latine, et saepe scribendi Italice (ὡς εἰκός ἐστιν, nam Francogallice loquor) cupido est mihi.

Valete,

Fsojic ~ Errores meos corrigatis (disputatio) 12:44, 20 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

En. Quam dificillimum scribere! De latina progressa, dico macte! Te exhortor. Mihi, conor fabulari posse latine. Etiam velim discere francogallice(et alias linguas). Nescio graece. Interpretes Iaponicis laetus sum.Jondel (disputatio) 00:22, 21 Iunii 2012 (UTC)
ὡς εἰκός ἐστιν naturaliter significat. Sed Graece scio haud egregie ! Cognoscere Graecam linguam anno solum extremo coepi.
Etiam ego alias linguas discere velim, non solum quia pulchrum est, sed etiam quia linguas Indoeuropaearum linguisticae studiosus sum (ut mea pagina videre potes). Idcirco ad Lituanam discendam ardeo. Nam Haec lingua dicitur quam antiquissima esse, nam hodie multae linguae protoindoeuropaeae radices et proprietates grammaticae manent in lingua Lithuanica.
Valete Fsojic ~ Errores meos corrigatis (disputatio) 10:52, 21 Iunii 2012 (UTC)
Papae! Te hortor. Etiam gratias tibi,mihi permoto, incepi Graeca vetus discere!!. (nescio, sed sistam Graecem mox).--Jondel (disputatio) 03:57, 26 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

About a category[fontem recensere]

Good day Jondel! Kumusta ka? I recently saw that ludus fornicalis changed to ludus porticuum and read the discussion page. I know I'm late. I also changed in the Pac-Man article that it is a ludus porticuum. If we should have a category about arcade games here (it would be easier to find those things), should it be called Categoria:Ludi porticuum? What do you think?

Donatello (disputatio) 15:19, 26 Iunii 2012 (UTC).

Mabuti! Ikaw? Good day to you too! Categoria:Ludi porticuum would be great! Andrew Dalby suggests it would be good if a category have at least 3 members. It would be good to coordinate with him.Jondel (disputatio) 23:28, 26 Iunii 2012 (UTC)
I'd simply say, as advice, it's wiser not to create a category if you have no plans to increase the number of articles beyond 1 or 2. If you do intend to add some more, that's fine. We are all free to do what we want, but lots of Wikipedians adjust categories, and if the 1/2 articles in a category are removed from a category (for whatever reason) the category will be deleted and you will have wasted your time.
It's also a good idea to begin an article on the topic, or at least to get agreement on the terminology, before creating the category. That's exactly what has happened here, which is perfect :) Andrew Dalby 08:53, 27 Iunii 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Andrew, that is a good point, that it would be a waste without at least 2 articles, and getting an agreement and others.--Jondel (disputatio) 01:19, 11 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

technologia digitalis non digitale[fontem recensere]

There isn't noun adjective agreement in the term "technologia digitale" because technologia is feminine and digitale as written is neuter.--118.160.22.1 03:30, 11 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I will make the changes.Jondel (disputatio) 03:35, 11 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Jondel, I emptied and deleted "Categoria:Technologia digitale‎‎" because it was a redirect. The Wiki environment does not allow redirects of categories. The category simply has to be emptied and deleted. Happy editing! Andrew Dalby 09:12, 11 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
Ok. Thanks.Jondel (disputatio) 09:18, 11 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

Domesticum?[fontem recensere]

I don't understand why you made those moves without explanation. Why is "domesticus" a better adjective to use than "civilis"? In the case of Bellum Civile Graecum I have moved back again because the case seems obvious (to me): the Greek name is "emphylios" which means "within a people", not "within a house". In the case of Bellum Domesticum Russicum I didn't move back, but I think at the least you need to cite a source. Andrew Dalby 08:54, 29 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Let me cite the dictionary source John T(urenberg?) which I don't have now, for "Civil War" as "Bellum Domesticum". I would like to make similar changes to all (except the Bellum Civile Graecum) since Bellum Domesticum has more authoritive sources.Jondel (disputatio) 08:58, 29 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
It's true that "bellum domesticum" is used by Caesar at least once. But "Bellum Civile" is used by Caesar, Sallust, Cicero (often), Horace, Lucan and many others. Do you rate John T(urenberg?) higher than those? I've never heard of him (not that that means anything!) but Google doesn't seem to have heard of him either. Do we have the name right? Where or what is his dictionary? Andrew Dalby 09:24, 29 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
Vide De bello civili, librum Caesaris, et De bello civili, poema Lucani, and if those aren't "authoritative," what would be? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:27, 29 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

I apologize. I do not know if they are more authoritive. The source I have for Bellum Domesticum-Civil War is the John Traupman dictionary, pp 154 and 698.

Oh, it's Traupman! No wonder I couldn't find Turenberg :) In general Wikipedia terms, I'd say, the usual kinds of dictionaries are "tertiary sources", rather like encyclopedias. They are better than nothing and a useful start, but they are not the most authoritative sources.
For Vicipaedia in particular, when we are looking for vocabulary, the best thing is to find how the words have already been used by writers in Latin. Some good dictionaries can help us do that, because they have references to texts, but it's important to use those clues, look beyond the dictionary and see how the words are really used. As you know, Jondel, a professional translator also must look beyond the dictionary.
In this case, it's true that a few Latin writers use the term "bellum domesticum", but much more rarely than "bellum civile", and it may be that they are trying to get across a particular viewpoint when they use it -- because "domus" means "house", so it's as if they are saying "war within the family" or "war at home". Andrew Dalby 08:41, 30 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
Andrew, I don't know if I can detach myself from My Precious, Gollum Edition John Traupman Dictionary but I know it can be done( detox chamber?, tossing the severed member holding the dictionary into the river of lava and fire?). Just kidding :). Seriously with Spanish (like how do you translate peer pressure, mall, etc) and Japanese (Japanese gambaru:work/fight hard?, domo( thank you, goodbye, feel good, etc)) the dictionary tends to be only a guide,i.e."tertiary sources". Trouble and confusion occurs when I rely too much on the dictionary. I agree with you. Sorry for the Traupman -Terenberg and bellum domesticum civile confusion. I can't help but mention though, that even in English domestic airports are not found in homes and there are no domestic flights direct to passengers' homes. But you don't have to worry about me changing Bellum Civile to Bellum Domesticum. I will strive very hard to get the most standard term in the future from the context of standard classical literature. It is great though that you and Iacobus(and others) are watching over direction of the Latin of vicipaedia though! Jondel (disputatio) 23:28, 30 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
Domestic flights, yes, quite true, Jondel, good point! Language is infinitely inconsistent and infinitely interesting :) Andrew Dalby 08:58, 31 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
The larger point is that because readers of reference works usually want to pop in, grab their information quickly, and bug out (if we may indulge not entirely obsolete slang), we should help them by deploying standard(ized) words and syntax. Since Cicero used bellum domesticum, it's an attested idiom, which accordingly has no reason not to occur here & there in our texts, but it's apparently not the ordinary, expected term (bellum civile), which—precisely because it's the ordinary, expected term!—should be the lemma and therefore the title of the article. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:57, 31 Iulii 2012 (UTC)
That is a very good point Iacobus! In fact with your (and all other magister's) guidance, I do hope to be able to write with standard words and phrases attested by 'standard' classic works and I do hope this will be a help to all readers.Jondel (disputatio) 23:12, 31 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

Israel Academiae Scientiarum[fontem recensere]

Thank you ! . :) פארוק (disputatio) 05:38, 24 Augusti 2012 (UTC)
Your welcome! :)Jondel (disputatio) 05:41, 24 Augusti 2012 (UTC)

Municipia Philippinarum[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. I moved Abulug, Cagayan to Abulug and one other page similarly. I did this because I think we don't need to add the disambiguating word -- there is no other place with this name. If I'm wrong and we do need it after all -- it's up to you really -- our practice is to add it in parentheses, i.e. "Abulug (Cagayan)", so, if you prefer, go ahead and move again to that pagename. OK?

I've suggested moving the category Categoria:Municipium Philippinarum because our normal rule is to have category names in the plural. If you see any problem with that, please comment on the talk page -- Thanks -- Andrew Dalby 16:45, 3 Septembris 2012 (UTC)

I was merely following the schemas at the English wiki. I will follow your lead for Categories etc. I forgot about the plurarility norms, sorry.Jondel (disputatio) 22:57, 3 Septembris 2012 (UTC)
No problem. It's good to have the new pages! I will move the category. Andrew Dalby 08:35, 4 Septembris 2012 (UTC)
Ok.Jondel (disputatio) 08:54, 4 Septembris 2012 (UTC)

Picture at Categoria:Palladium[fontem recensere]

I removed the picture and instead put in a link to Commons, where all the pictures can be found. We don't usually illustrate categories -- better maybe to encourage readers to look at the page Palladium. I hope that's OK, Jondel. Andrew Dalby 08:30, 18 Septembris 2012 (UTC)

No busted Aneurysms here, so, uh its ok.Jondel (disputatio) 08:34, 18 Septembris 2012 (UTC)
That's good. Have a nice day :) Andrew Dalby 08:37, 18 Septembris 2012 (UTC)
Have a nice day too Andrew :)!Jondel (disputatio) 08:44, 18 Septembris 2012 (UTC)

De regibus Francorum[fontem recensere]

Thanks, Jondel! Andrew Dalby 11:26, 3 Octobris 2012 (UTC)

Ow. Your welcome!Jondel (disputatio) 11:42, 3 Octobris 2012 (UTC)

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I replied[fontem recensere]

... on my talk page. Andrew Dalby 09:03, 25 Octobris 2012 (UTC)

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Thanks[fontem recensere]

I thank you too for your precious work. I can see that you and Nuada create each days a lot of new new pages. I hope that with your help we could reach in 2013 the 100'000 pages. Ciao Helveticus montanus (disputatio) 05:52, 20 Novembris 2012 (UTC)

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Minamoto[fontem recensere]

Dear Jondel, I apologize but when I corrected your sentence I missunderstood what you wished to tell. In any case with the word cognatus of course, as you rightly say, with dative the problem is solved. Ciao --Helveticus montanus (disputatio) 13:33, 4 Decembris 2012 (UTC)

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The invisible wall[fontem recensere]

I mentioned it on my talk page. It surrounds categories that are biographies of real, single people. For that reason, it isn't possible to make "Gemini ficticii" etc. subcategories of "Gemini" -- because the "Gemini" are real people and the "Gemini ficticii" are not. Don't worry about it, but that's why I had to revert you. Instead, we can link the two categories with a "vide etiam", and that's what I will now do :) Andrew Dalby 12:32, 5 Decembris 2012 (UTC)

Why do they have to be different concepts? Gemini is /are about Geminis whether they are real or not. Geminis can be real they can be fictional. Gemini is a concept of twin. I do not see the logic and may open a debate at the taberna. We are probably the only wikipedia who makes that distinction. I can directly read and verify this in wikipedias of 7 languages, so can you in other languages that you know. This is ridiculous and seems cultic and obsessive! Jondel (disputatio) 12:39, 5 Decembris 2012 (UTC)
It isn't cultic, it's practical ... Yes, by all means ask on the Taberna. I think UV will be able to explain more clearly than I can, but, if he doesn't comment, I'll have a go! Andrew Dalby 12:45, 5 Decembris 2012 (UTC)
Strangely, the Cynthia Crawford question is relevant ... her website says she is a twin but with no genetic relationship to the other twin. So, is she a real human, and is she a real twin? We are on the edge of madness here, Jondel ... :) Andrew Dalby 14:07, 5 Decembris 2012 (UTC)
If you would, fictional twin but not real twin, (--real person--) . This madness ! This is SPARTAAAA! Opus est mihi abire. Me paenitet ita nobis deliberandum est.Jondel (disputatio) 14:15, 5 Decembris 2012 (UTC)

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Translation notification: Fundraising 2012/Translation/Adrianne Wadewitz video (captions)[fontem recensere]

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You are receiving this notification because you signed up as a translator to Latina, Japanese et Spanish on Meta. The page Fundraising 2012/Translation/Adrianne Wadewitz video (captions) is available for translation. You can translate it here:

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Meta translation coordinators‎, 15:19, 18 Decembris 2012 (UTC)

Translation notification: Fundraising 2012/Translation/Howard Morland video (captions)[fontem recensere]

Hello Jondel,

You are receiving this notification because you signed up as a translator to Latina, Japanese et Spanish on Meta. The page Fundraising 2012/Translation/Howard Morland video (captions) is available for translation. You can translate it here:

The priority of this page is high. The deadline for translating this page is 2012-12-24.

Your help is greatly appreciated. Translators like you help Meta to function as a truly multilingual community.

Thank you!

Meta translation coordinators‎, 13:05, 19 Decembris 2012 (UTC)

Smartphone[fontem recensere]

Salve Jondel! Quum dictionarium meum non harum machinarum aetate ediderint, ecquidem publicum verbo 'smartphone' comparem commendare nequeo. Aliis vero Latinitatis hodiernae diurnis, sicut in Ephemeride verbum a te quaesitum reperietur: scopophonium (vide secundam notationem). --Martinus Vester (disputatio) 18:40, 1 Ianuarii 2013 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago Martinus!! Magnum auxilium est.Jondel (disputatio) 04:31, 3 Ianuarii 2013 (UTC)

Ave Jondel, auxiliandi causa sine tibi dicam, nisi fallor, lapsus esse scopophonium attamen sophophonum lectus esse in Ephemeris, et denuntiem etiam translatio a Élizabeth Antébi et Marie-France Saignes oblata pro verbo anglice "smartphone" in "Pullus Micolellus Latina lingua" "sollerterphonascum" fuisse. --Leonellus Pons (disputatio) 15:25, 3 Ianuarii 2013 (UTC)

Ave Leonellus! Prosperus annus tibi! Optime monitus es mihi, gratias. Adeo, tibi, sollerterphonascum melius sit? Emendabo ita. Sed si vis, emenda si tibi placeat.Jondel (disputatio) 00:15, 4 Ianuarii 2013 (UTC)
Aah! lapsus meus! Me paenitet!Jondel (disputatio) 01:00, 4 Ianuarii 2013 (UTC)

Nove[fontem recensere]

Salve, Jondel, in apostolis siglum "{{dubsig}}" addideram formae nove, quia, quid significet, non intellexi. Cum hoc siglum removisti, indicasti te, quid nove hic significet, intellegere. Velim, sodes, mihi dicas, quid nove hic tibi significare videatur. Quod scio, nove idem valet ac 'inusitate; insolito modo', sed in hunc contextum parum quadrare videtur. Num quid me fallit? Neander (disputatio) 04:09, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Salve Neander. Certe dicere velim. Tibi, non te fallit. In isto contexto credo sit anglice "newly". Nunc in perseo(perseus) fontem licet mihi repperiam. Quamquam fons mea est Whitaker words. Jondel (disputatio) 04:30, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Sodes vide: http://athirdway.com/glossa/?s=novus (Sed adhunc reppero in perseo)

En, tandem: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=novus&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059

Coniugatus mihi videtur (sed fontem non habeo) cum "denuo" et hispanice "denuevo". Laetus sum quod cures. Si tibi placeat muta.Jondel (disputatio) 04:53, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Apud Cassell's legimus Anglicum newly Latine significare 'nuper, modo, recens', et Latinum nove Anglice significare 'in a new or unusual manner'; 'lately, recently'; 'lastly, in the last place'. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 05:13, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)
Gloria ad Cassell's!! (Gratias tibi ago Iacobus!)Jondel (disputatio) 05:20, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Iam Viator noster rem prudenter solvit. Neander (disputatio) 11:22, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Optime! --Jondel (disputatio) 12:47, 1 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Mindanaum[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. I found this Latin name for the island so I have moved the page and created a category. Hope that's OK by you? Andrew Dalby 14:14, 25 Februarii 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Amazing work! It is soo hard to dig up those sources!! Great!Jondel (disputatio) 14:24, 25 Februarii 2013 (UTC)
Since attestations exist, Vicipaedia probably has to cite them, but note the false linguistics involved in assuming that an -o that ends Austronesian words is equivalent to the Latin stem-vowel -o- (a sign of the second declension, supporting the nominative singular in -um). A terminal Austronesian -o is usually an inseparable part of the root, which the transformation may damage beyond recognition: imagine the River Beck becoming the River Beum. Working backward from the Latin, how should we get Beck—and not, say, Bear or Begg or Bell or Benn or Beth—out of Beum ? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:48, 25 Februarii 2013 (UTC)
I appreciate your looking into this Iacobus! I have to investigate this but I have soo little time lately.Jondel (disputatio) 12:10, 1 Martii 2013 (UTC)
I've recently added a map picture, but couldn't translate "south-east". How do we say that in Latin? Of course feel free to change picture if you find a better one.
Donatello (disputatio) 14:41, 1 Martii 2013 (UTC).
Stearn offers the phrase versus meridiem et orientem a loco dicto 'southeast of the place named'. Also, you'll find meridiorientalis and meridio-orientalis. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:52, 1 Martii 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Donatallo and Iacobus. I would have said australis orientalis but meridiorientalis is probably better. I can barely do wikipedia now days. I might correct the picture description to say just south. regards.Jondel (disputatio) 14:57, 1 Martii 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Iacobus. Good to know.
You're welcome Jondel. I've recently added more in Davao City (city lieing in Mindanao). Anybody who knows any name(s) in Latin?
Donatello (disputatio) 16:11, 1 Martii 2013 (UTC).
The adjective "Davaensis" (as you may know already) is attested in Catholic and taxonomic sources, but I haven't as yet encountered a noun. Considering what Iacobus rightly says, above, I would not care to invent one. Andrew Dalby 20:54, 1 Martii 2013 (UTC)

Respublica Coreana?[fontem recensere]

Salve, Jondel! Nescio quid habeas in mente cum paene omnia verba e pagina de Re Publica Coreana removeas. Pagina nunc in medio verbo "dan..." terminat. Num lapsus digitorum fuit? Nolo recensionem revertere nisi re vera error sit. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:18, 11 Martii 2013 (UTC)

Nescio quod evinit, solum datas praesorum verti. Nam me paenitet. Licet mihi inspiciam nunc. Patientias tibi , omnibus, gratias .Jondel (disputatio) 12:26, 11 Martii 2013 (UTC)
Bene est: fac omnia, quae necesse sit! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:27, 11 Martii 2013 (UTC)
Iam bene videtur. Me certiorem fecisti gratias tibi ago.Jondel (disputatio) 12:33, 11 Martii 2013 (UTC)

salve[fontem recensere]

Salve Jondel! Quaeso ignoscas me absentem tibi non rescripsisse. --Martinus Vester (disputatio) 11:45, 17 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)

Salve Martinus. Non molestia. Utinam valeas. Solum volui repperire vox pro "Credit card" quam iam repperi tandem in dictionario Traupman. Iam est res Tabella tributaria. Jondel (disputatio) 11:59, 17 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)

The Others[fontem recensere]

Hello Jondel. :) Maybe you also watched the television series Lost long time ago. The article here says that "The Others" (the native of the island) speak Latin. Do you know anything of this? As you also have worked much about the Philippines, do you also know any Latin name for the neighbour island Sumatra? I came to this recently about Sumatra when I was working here about orangutans.

Donatello (disputatio) 23:39, 25 Maii 2013 (UTC).

Hi Donatello. Want to create an article about the others? This is from the English wiki:revealed that [[Jacob (Lost)|Jacob]] and [[Man in Black (Lost)|his brother]] were born to a woman named Claudia whose crew were shipwrecked on the island and spoke [[Latin]] (this also indicates that the episode was set many centuries ago, when this language was still in common usage). . There are episodes where they use latin like with that fertility doctor. Check out youtube. I do not know of any latin name for Sumatra. Check out Egger's Lexicon Nominum Locorum .Jondel (disputatio) 11:22, 26 Maii 2013 (UTC)
Check this out.Jondel (disputatio) 11:26, 26 Maii 2013 (UTC)
I see. :) Big thanks. -- Donatello (disputatio) 11:40, 26 Maii 2013 (UTC).
Welcome :).Jondel (disputatio) 11:41, 26 Maii 2013 (UTC)
Hello again. :) They used the phrase si placet, showing in the translation as 'please'. Do you know any Latin phrase for 'please' like that? I never heard that before. The translations are made by Lost, not the user, but the user putted the Latin text.
Donatello (disputatio) 16:12, 2 Iunii 2013 (UTC).
Yes, 'please'.(Here, the equivalent 'amabo te' is used by others) Si tibi placet, yada yada. If it pleases you, yada yada. Was it that fertility doctor asking about Ricardo to the others? Please look up (Si tibi placet/placeat, if it pleases/would-please you vide )the etymology of 'please' in English, French and Latin. I learn by conversing with myself using the dictionary.Jondel (disputatio) 09:13, 3 Iunii 2013 (UTC)
I see. Thanks again. :) -- Donatello (disputatio) 14:35, 3 Iunii 2013 (UTC).
While we were discussing this, at the same time coincidentaly I asked what stp means. Its a divine act of the sphaghetti monster!!Jondel (disputatio) 11:55, 4 Iunii 2013 (UTC)

Something more[fontem recensere]

Greetings again. Maybe you'll find this interesting: "Final Fantasy" (the first game in its series; to NES) and "Zelda II: The Adventure of Link" (the second game in its series; to NES) in Latin. It can be interesting when Latin is used in popular culture. I've added these links to the articles about Final Fantasy (both in the game and the game series) and The Legend of Zelda (here only in the game series, then there are no article yet about the game).

Donatello (disputatio) 11:30, 7 Iunii 2013 (UTC).

Mehercule! Wow. I haven't played computer games in a long time. I looked at the link. Hmm. Lets see.Jondel (disputatio) 12:47, 7 Iunii 2013 (UTC)

Scientiae Baccalaureus[fontem recensere]

I added a "Non stipula" because there are a couple of things missing, Jondel, but I expect you're still at work -- that's fine, no problem -- take it away again :) Andrew Dalby 15:40, 15 Iunii 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Great. I will complete it now as best as I can. Regards.Jondel (disputatio) 09:24, 17 Iunii 2013 (UTC)

Sabbatum[fontem recensere]

Yes, let's chill :) Do you want to do more today, Jondel, or shall I have a go? Maybe it's your bedtime! Andrew Dalby 14:11, 15 Iulii 2013 (UTC)

I might be working some more. Although its past bedtime. Its great that you organize these issues. But honestly I'm grateful for Iacobus' inputs. (certainly no need to 'Restoring the general --yada yada waatever --' though)There is not much else I can say. Well I am indeed confused with the other Sabbath articles. I'm watching you tube now as well as browsing vicipedia, fixing stuff. Jondel (disputatio) 14:36, 15 Iulii 2013 (UTC)

Categoriae Iaponenses[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. Notice that I categorized some pages that were under Categoria:Iaponia into subcategories that seemed more suitable. If I did anything silly, feel free to correct it or change back! Andrew Dalby 13:29, 6 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

Great work! I'm a bit forgetful (and thus silly too! :) ). So I guess we'll have to bear with each other! Of course I will try to follow your lead.Jondel (disputatio) 13:32, 6 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

Cybernetique[fontem recensere]

Hello Jondel. I wonder if this word is French. If so, it can be good to mention like this in these two articles and others: "...a physico mathematico Andreas Maria Ampère "cybernetique" (Francogallicee) in eius..." and "...primus sicut "cybernetique" (Francogallice) inlatus...". It will be good for the readers what language it belongs to. -- Donatello (disputatio) 15:26, 12 Augusti 2013 (UTC).

Good suggestion. I think I will do that now.Jondel (disputatio) 08:54, 13 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

Tosa Inu[fontem recensere]

Greetings Jondel. :) You who know Japanese, could you help out about the Latin name written there? Does it corresponds to the Japanese name? -- Donatello (disputatio) 02:40, 18 Augusti 2013 (UTC).

'Inu' is dog. I have to look at Tosa and will do so now.Jondel (disputatio) 17:48, 18 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

simple:Shadow[fontem recensere]

Salve, Jondel. I read Latin better than I write it, so: What do you want me to fix in the article on simplewiki? StevenJ81 (disputatio) 16:18, 20 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this. The articles are supposed to be "simple" . (Licet mihi latinam :) ) Etiam mihi videtur scripta ab non nativa. Per exemplia gratia ,cur in gentium sit verbum "circuit"? Mihi nullo refert. Autem tu non sis obligatus emendare solum si velis. Fieri potest ego etiam emendam. Minime res emendari debet quo facilior intelligere omnibus maxime ab legentibus quorum lingua paterna non sit anglice. Gratias tibi ago. Jondel (disputatio) 16:36, 20 Augusti 2013 (UTC)
Please feel free and you may have to remove things there that are not related to "Shadows" like circuit etc.Jondel (disputatio) 16:39, 20 Augusti 2013 (UTC)
I understand your point. I templated that page, and if someone else does not address it shortly I will. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 20:08, 20 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

Alcoholici Anonymi[fontem recensere]

Multas gratias tibi propter tuam paginam de Alcoholicis Anonymis, quia ego scio paucum de hac societate plusque de alia (de qua spero scribere tardiore tempore). Kraŭs (disputatio) 12:22, 23 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

Gatias tibi ago. Autem magis meliore cupio quam fieri potest.Jondel (disputatio) 12:44, 23 Augusti 2013 (UTC)

how are you?[fontem recensere]

Seing you here I hope you did not have problem with the typhon. Vale. Helveticus montanus (disputatio) 14:16, 11 Novembris 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern! What a horrible disaster! Equally strange, Manila where I live was totally safe! It was like an onrushing truck that suddenly veered away. A relative of mine has no roof in the province.Jondel (disputatio) 14:21, 11 Novembris 2013 (UTC)

Help translating from english[fontem recensere]

Hello and thanks for you offer to help. Here is the article I want to translate. I tried to translate all the link that I found in your wiki. Usor:Xaris333/Nea Salamis Famagusta FC. The English article is en:Nea Salamina Famagusta FC. Xaris333 (disputatio) 20:58, 6 Decembris 2013 (UTC)

Ok. I've started writing the article here:/SalaminaFootball.Jondel (disputatio) 07:09, 8 Decembris 2013 (UTC)

Microwave oven[fontem recensere]

Hi Jondel. :) Maybe you can help with this; I do not really think that the Latin name Furnus brevibus undis agens for "microwave oven" we have as the article name is good. It's long and describing. This name might work instead in poetry. Maybe you are able to add another name? :) -- Donatello (disputatio) 18:38, 18 Decembris 2013 (UTC).

I would like to work on this. Let look into my sources. Jondel (disputatio) 11:28, 21 Decembris 2013 (UTC)

Satya Nadella[fontem recensere]

We conflicted, Jondel -- we were at work at the same moment. Please check that the result is OK by you! Andrew Dalby 16:14, 17 Februarii 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, we'll do! Just a question Andhrae Pradesae with 'e' was meant to be locative?Jondel (disputatio) 16:18, 17 Februarii 2014 (UTC)
It was meant to be genitive: Hyderabad of Andhra Pradesh, like Bethlehem of Judaea. But I wasn't sure whether to do it with this Indian name or not. When I saw that you took out the declension, I thought, maybe Jondel's right, it looks strange: so I left it your way and added "civitatis" to show the genitive. Andrew Dalby 16:34, 17 Februarii 2014 (UTC)
I was conforming to the ablative of 'urbe'. I would like show the gentive (with the 'e's) then, conforming to your above statement. Jondel (disputatio) 16:50, 17 Februarii 2014 (UTC)

ut and ad[fontem recensere]

Salve Jondel! I wanted to explain why I made changes to your sentences with "ut" on Membrum. Using "ut" with just an infinitive is not usually possible. In order to say "they use the limbs to carry things", you have a choice between "ut + subjunctive" or "ad + gerund/gerundive". So "membris utantur ut res ferant" or "membris utantur ad res ferendas". Also, it's important to note that the verb "utor" takes the ablative, i.e. "re utor" and not "*res utor". Vale, Lesgles (disputatio) 17:00, 22 Martii 2014 (UTC)

You are right on the usage of ut. Utor ussually is used with the ablative but not always. I've seen instances with accusative and genitve. Thanks for letting me know.--Jondel (disputatio) 18:37, 24 Martii 2014 (UTC)
Jondel, you're right but notice that "utor + accusative" is vulgar Latin (attested in archaic comedy [Plautus], rustic speech [sometimes exemplified by scriptores rerum rusticarum], some inscriptions, etc) but that's not the register we're supposed to follow. Neander (disputatio) 19:02, 25 Martii 2014 (UTC)
I will try to stick to using ablative with this case and indeed would like to use good latin.--Jondel (disputatio) 04:52, 26 Martii 2014 (UTC)

Membrum[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. I'm sorry if my summarium seemed unhelpful -- I saw your reply! To explain more fully, I'm quite sure that Traupman did not write "articulatus extremus" (which was what you had put in the text, perhaps by mistake). And I'm sure he didn't write "articulus extremus", which was what you meant to write. That would mean "Outermost joint". It wouldn't be a correct equivalent for "membrum".

OK, so what do you do? You want to cite Traupman, but you shouldn't attribute to him a phrase which is your own guesswork. I often have this same problem. This is my solution: I suggest it in case it helps you too. You cite your source in the footnote, and also -- in the footnote itself -- you put exactly what he wrote, in his original language, inside quote marks. This is exactly what I did this evening at Monasterium Sancti Georgii in Manganis. I devised a Latin name for it, based on two sources that give shorter names (also Latin). So, in footnotes 1 and 2, I give their exact texts, in quotes. That way, I am not being unfair to those sources. Andrew Dalby 21:00, 24 Martii 2014 (UTC)

You are right. It is great that you take control of these matters Andrew. --Jondel (disputatio) 15:46, 25 Martii 2014 (UTC)
I am examining your exemple and will attempt the same.I really would like to address the issue that membrum is popular in the sense of 'organ'. --Jondel (disputatio) 16:18, 25 Martii 2014 (UTC)

Marius (persona ficticia)[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel Please look at this page again. I needed to revert some vandalism, so your latest changes were lost. They were very small, so I hoped you would forgive me ... :) Andrew Dalby 18:22, 25 Martii 2014 (UTC)

Uhh I will see what I can do. This is big article.Jondel (disputatio)---

"Welcome back"[fontem recensere]

If he's Kotter, I guess we must be the Sweathogs? Andrew Dalby 13:29, 2 Aprilis 2014 (UTC)

Ha ha! :) Kotter was a founding member of the Sweathogs(original rejected high school student).eg You really are you own teacher and sweathog. We can't help but return to our (dysfunctional) roots. 'Welcome back Kotter' is just meant to be an expression.(From the title of the popular tv series back then)--Jondel (disputatio) 04:36, 3 Aprilis 2014 (UTC)

thank you[fontem recensere]

^_^... --SurdusVII (LIS) 10:03, 1 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Your welcome, I', m glad you liked it. Btw, I am interested in learning sign language. Se habla espanol?--Jondel (disputatio) 10:48, 1 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
hola, no hablan mucho español, pero sé un nivel 1... :) --SurdusVII (LIS) 12:03, 1 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Vale. Que tenga suerte!--Jondel (disputatio) 14:51, 2 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Jondel, you removed the Latinitas -5 at Lingua Gesticulatoria Portugallensis. I reverted you, because previously the sentence was just about meaningful, but after your edit it is not Latin at all, so -5 is the best I can say. What do you mean to say with "pro sermone 84.000 surditate Portugallia"? What is the word "surdate" that you have used on other similar pages? I'm puzzled. Andrew Dalby 08:46, 3 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry Andrew. surdate was supposed to be surditate. Pro sermone ...= in place of speech for 84.0000 deaf in Portugal. --Jondel (disputatio) 08:56, 3 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

This 84.000 surditate does not mean '84,000 deaf [people]', and Portugallia does not mean 'in Portugal'. Little things matter. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 02:58, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Do you think we can fix this?--Jondel (disputatio) 08:56, 3 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I get it. Unluckily "surditate" doesn't mean "for deaf" but "by deafness", and "Portugallia" doesn't mean "in Portugal" but just "Portugal". And we have to express "in place of speech" carefully if that is what we want to say, because this is a real language, not in place of a language.
I'm sure we can say something useful, yes! The trouble is, our contributor is not giving us a good basis. It's interesting that there are these sign languages, and it's interesting to know the number of deaf in each country, but that number doesn't have a simple relationship to the use of the language. Andrew Dalby 11:46, 3 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Your welcome and thanks for looking into to these. To return, 'by deafness' is what is understood when we use the ablative. Can we assume the dative which has the same appearance/form to mean 'for the deaf'? --Jondel (disputatio) 01:26, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

The dative singular of surditas does not have "the same appearance/form" as the ablative singular. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 02:58, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure if I'm understood. Isn't this form 'surditate' both dative and ablative? --Jondel (disputatio) 03:06, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
No, surditate is not dative. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:00, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
In its dative sense, can't it mean 'for the deaf' ? --Jondel (disputatio) 03:06, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
It can mean 'for deafness'. 'For (the benefit of)' is one of the senses of the dative. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:00, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Is it possible, in the other hand, to use hominibus surdium to mean the same? Thanks for looking into this Iacobus.--Jondel (disputatio) 01:26, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

No, it is not. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 02:58, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

About the numbers of deaf in each country, can I insert 100 hominibus surdium to mean 'for 100 deaf persons'? --Jondel (disputatio) 01:26, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

No. The word hominibus and the nonword surdium obviously can't go together. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:00, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

I think hominibus can be left out since I read in a chapter of latin grammar that you can use the genitive characteristic directly and the 'person' 'friends' 'relatives' and 'people' are assumed. eg. I saw his relatives.= Vidi suorum. --Jondel (disputatio) 01:26, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC) For the no. of deafs, I will try to check the sources and refer to the English wiki.--Jondel (disputatio) 01:49, 4 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

You are right that adjectives and possessive pronouns can be used substantively, with "homines", "cognati", "amici", etc. implied. But this has nothing to do with the genitive. "He saw his people" = "Suos vidit". I don't think it's usual with eius/eorum: "I saw his people" = "Eius vidi" "Cognatos eius vidi". You can also use the adjective surdus, "deaf", as a substantive: "I gave books to a hundred deaf people" = "Centum surdis libros dedi". Surditas means "deafness", the condition, and its dative (which you can easily look up) is surditati. Lesgles (disputatio) 18:06, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
If memory serves (and datives usually follow direct objects), in Centum surdis libros dedi the dative is being featured, so the sentence might be glossed 'It was to a hundred deaf people that I gave the books'. That's in isolation, of course; context might dictate otherwise. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:56, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, Gildersleeve actually gives "indirect object, direct object' as the usual order, but anyway, in the case of this imaginary sentence, I'm fine with whatever interpretation the reader chooses. :) Lesgles (disputatio) 16:43, 23 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
Professor Gildersleeve was apparently wrong! Devine & Stephens, having crunched zillions of sentences, conclude: "A default order clearly emerges from the data. What is that default order? Conflating the various argument structures analyed[,] we come up with the following overall order
Subj DO IO/Obl Adj Goal/Source Nonref-DO V
or in English: Subject—Direct Object—Indirect Object or Oblique argument—Adjunct—Goal or Source argument—Nonreferential Direct Object—Verb" (Latin Word Order, p. 79). Later, on the next page, they explain: "We note right away that, if we can identify the Latin inflected dative with the English prepositional recipient, the order of arguments and adjuncts is the same as in English." The first two (of seven) examples on the next page are "praedam militi (dedit) / (gave) the booty to the soldiers" [ecce typo (militi pro militibus)!] and "scribas anulis in contione (donarunt) / (presented) their scribes with rings in the assembly." (They don't point out that equally good Latin for the latter might be "anulos scribis in contione (donarunt).") For a feel for the linguistic analysis offered in this book, read this explanation of a larger version of the latter (which, btw, is simplified from Cicero, In Verrem, 2.3.185): "This says roughly that our generals as agents and their scribes as patients and gold rings as instruments and their respective assemblies as location are involved in a presentation relationship" (p. 83). :) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:39, 23 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
Btw, D&S aren't being complete enough in speaking of identifying just "the Latin inflected dative with the English prepositional recipient." The second example quoted above, at least to my ears, involves the ablative plural (anulis), not the dative plural (also anulis). But the discussion on p. 80 shows understanding of this, and the broader point remains: several sorts of arguments (including indirect objects and instruments) canonically go between the direct object and the verb. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:50, 23 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll have to read that! We can perhaps excuse Gildersleeve since he didn't distinguish referential from non-referential direct objects, though if I understand the term correctly, my libros is definitely referential, so it would more commonly come before the I.O., as you say. Lesgles (disputatio) 21:11, 23 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for this discussion, Iacobus, Lesgles. It may take me a while (actually a very LONG time)to process this .Jondel (disputatio) 10:31, 24 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

It may be rash to suggest that professor Gildersleeve was wrong. There are other studies (such as Word order between morphology and syntax by Chiara Polo, 2004: 222) that come up with the same conclusion. With all due respect to D&S's awesome book, let me pick up the authors' pithy statement that Latin word order is “grammatically free but pragmatically fixed" (p.29). Indeed, but given that Latin word order is syntactically variable, one wonders why the basic order is formulated in syntactic terms. It is the framework of generative grammar that leads to positing a basic word order for a free word order language and to dealing with exceptions in terms of "scramblings" and other more or less mystical movements. But many "deviations" are too numerous to be just deviations. Neander (disputatio) 18:59, 24 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Superheroes[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. Going through the recent pages, I see problems with some of these pages.

  1. They contain hidden text. Why? When do you intend to remove it? Hidden text makes the editing screen confusing. It should normally be removed by the time you have finished your work on a page, except in special cases where it is intended to help other editors.
  2. The external links seem to be to the DC Comics or Marvel Comics home page, not to anything specific about the hero concerned. This doesn't support your text.

The result, when the hidden text is removed and the link doesn't help, is that the page may become a non-stipula. I am marking some as non-stipula, but you are of course very welcome to improve them, or to replace the Non-stipula with In-progressu if you are still at work on these pages. Andrew Dalby 11:43, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)

Ok. Andrew, I will be working on removing them. Also if an article is about 2 sentences or less, I would be leaving a stipula notice.Jondel (disputatio) 00:32, 22 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
The Non-stipula formula is precise about this: to qualify as a stipula, an article must have at least 200 characters, and it won't be a stipula if it has 199 characters but otherwise meets the stated criteria. For any text, you can find the number of characters after the word Magnitudo under the editbox (after you've clicked "Monstrare praevisum"). On my screen, such a number prints just above "Mutata tua statim visibilia erunt!"—but the location may differ on your screen. ¶ Strangely, considering that we're dealing with computerization here, the number of characters that the program produces under "Magnitudo" as just described differs a little from reality, but nobody has responded to my queries about this anomaly. On the practical consequences of having too many stipulas, see the new heading below. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:57, 15 Octobris 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Jondel. I had a small problem with Fe del Mundo and Ram Bahadur Bomjon: no external source of information. I'm sure that you could add a link to an external source, or a reference to a book. Once that's done, you can take off the "Non stipula" tag! Andrew Dalby 14:15, 15 Octobris 2014 (UTC)

Ok. I will work on this.Jondel (disputatio) 22:24, 17 Octobris 2014 (UTC)

What's a stub?[fontem recensere]

How many characters does a short text need before it becomes unmarked as a stipula, and thus is promoted from the status of a stub to the status of an article? That is: what's the upper limit of a stipula? I'd suggest 2000 characters on average, or even 1750, but consensus may be lacking. A practical reason for concern over this question is that stubs reduce a wiki's so-called depth—a concept that Meta uses as a measure of quality: the greater the ratio of stubs to articles, the lower the quality of the enterprise. Compared with other wikis of about the same size, Vicipaedia scores unexpectedly low. This state of affairs must partly be due to thousands of stipula-marked articles produced by our European hamlet-loving contributors. For example: Cusinum, from which I've recently removed the stipula mark because the text fills up a whole screen-page and therefore doesn't (subjectively) look like a stub on my screen. The way the quality-assessing game is played forces participants to be cautious about calling texts stubs. Every new article marked as a stub reduces the supposed quality of the enterprise. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:57, 15 Octobris 2014 (UTC)

Instead of an absolute number, perhaps some number on a sliding scale relating to the "ideal" size of a given topic would be more appropriate, but although we may have a (subjective) sense of these proportions, finding objective criteria might be impossible. For example, a 2000-character article on WWII would be woefully inadequate (we'd all surely agree), and such a text should indeed be marked as a stub, as might a 3000-character or even a 4000-character article on that topic, whereas the mere 751.3 characters of Caychax—a settlement consisting of twelve people!—might be more than anyone, except perhaps the residents of the locality, and their friends and relatives, would ever want to know, and so maybe that text (and numerous others not unlike it) should be considered an article, rather than a stub. Is there any obective way to make such distinctions? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:57, 15 Octobris 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps a discussion better held at the Taberna? Lesgles (disputatio) 16:09, 15 Octobris 2014 (UTC)
OK, let's copy it there. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:22, 15 Octobris 2014 (UTC)

Daredevil[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. Thanks for going back there. I now see some relevant stuff at Marvel, but the middle link (supposed to be "toonopedia") doesn't work yet :( Andrew Dalby 17:17, 2 Novembris 2014 (UTC)

Your welcome. Likewise it is good you check up on this. There is a 1964 link at toonopedia. Let me fix that link. Jondel (disputatio) 14:49, 3 Novembris 2014 (UTC)

Antivirus[fontem recensere]

It's fine to recreate the article, Jondel, but you have to make it up to stipula standard (at the very least, more text and an external source of information: an illustration if there is one) or it just gets deleted again in the end ... :( Andrew Dalby 10:12, 15 Novembris 2014 (UTC)

Well I was wondering about that. You know I made a request regarding its Latin at the Taberna. It seems to have been ignored. I will work to put up some more info and a source and possible an illustration. Jondel (disputatio) 11:02, 15 Novembris 2014 (UTC)
I was about to delete The Terminator (pellicula 1984), but seeing how much work you put into it, I thought I'd give you a last chance! All it needs to save it is an external source of some kind. Andrew Dalby 15:43, 11 Ianuarii 2015 (UTC)

Ok Andrew.--Jondel (disputatio) 19:08, 11 Ianuarii 2015 (UTC)

Attribution[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. Please have look at the page Plasticitas. Where you write "Fons" with a link to en:wiki, I take it you mean this as an attribution -- that you have translated from en:wiki. Is that right? We just had a discussion on the Taberna about attribution: maybe you missed it. We all agreed that we would do it in one of two ways: either in the summarium, or by starting a talk page and putting the atttribution there. We don't do it on the page itself. At this stage, I suggest, you use the talk page method. It's really easy. Start the talk page and insert {{Attributio|en|Plasticity (physics)}}. OK? I'll leave it to you to do that.

You also need to add some relevant external source or external link to this page, otherwise it is a "Non stipula". Andrew Dalby 13:49, 6 Martii 2015 (UTC)

ok.--Jondel (disputatio) 15:26, 6 Martii 2015 (UTC)

Mahathir Mohamad[fontem recensere]

Jondel, I'm looking at the page Mahathir Mohamad. On 24 February you added a "source" (fons) to it. It's a book published in 1969. How can it possibly be a source for the prime ministership of Mahathir Mohamad, which ran from 1981 to 2003? It looks as if you're writing pure nonsense there! Andrew Dalby 14:50, 24 Martii 2015 (UTC)

It's OK, don't worry about it, I have added a bibliography from en:wiki now. Four books about Mahathir Mohamad! Not bad eh? I also added a bibliography to Plasticitas (see above) from the same so-generous source :) Andrew Dalby 15:52, 24 Martii 2015 (UTC)

Not bad!Sorry about Mahathir. Anyway, it is good that you investigate these things. I'll be sure to place better sources.--Jondel (disputatio) 14:05, 25 Martii 2015 (UTC)

Translating the interface in your language, we need your help[fontem recensere]

Hello Jondel, thanks for working on this wiki in your language. We updated the list of priority translations and I write you to let you know. The language used by this wiki (or by you in your preferences) needs about 100 translations or less in the priority list. You're almost done!
To add or change translations for all wikis, please use translatewiki.net, the MediaWiki localisation project.

Please register on translatewiki.net if you didn't yet and then help complete priority translations (make sure to select your language in the language selector). With a couple hours' work or less, you can make sure that nearly all visitors see the wiki interface fully translated. Nemo 14:06, 26 Aprilis 2015 (UTC)

Ferdinandus Mendes Pinto[fontem recensere]

I'm happy you started this page. He is one of my favourite characters! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:55, 7 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Did you read Shogun by James Clavell? Im wondering if he based that portuguese shipment of guns and rifles in Japan on him. He was enslaved, escaped and shipwrecked many times. --Jondel (disputatio) 15:49, 7 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Viscus/Viscera[fontem recensere]

Hello Jondel, best greetings and wishes from Bavaria. Although being very occupied I will try to contribute to this page started by you! But first of all the title should be o.k. I started a discussion page, let's see, if there will be contributions from good latinists. Certainly wrong is the title "Textus conexivus". To that page I started a discussion page as well. Have a good summer!Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 22:53, 8 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Greetings from Pasay Philippines and thank you for your response. Did you know I was in Munchen/Munich as a reporter to the electronica expo? I really hope the textus can be solved.--Jondel (disputatio) 10:54, 9 Iunii 2015 (UTC)
Textus doesn't seem to be wrong.[1]--Jondel (disputatio) 13:06, 10 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your help with viscera, textus and others.--Jondel (disputatio) 00:56, 12 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Fontes[fontem recensere]

  1. De Textus Langenscheidt Pocket Latin Dictionary pagina 465 Tissue- Textus.

Hermes[fontem recensere]

Salve, ut paginam disputationis legas, te rogo. Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 05:22, 24 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Ave. Iam respondui. Soleo reddere ex wiki anglice. Cum cures tu vel aliquis emendet , me placet .--Jondel (disputatio) 11:20, 24 Iunii 2015 (UTC)

Nicolaus Winton[fontem recensere]

Please. Could I suggest you two little things: 1) not in 2015 or in 1924 but anno 2015 or anno 1924 2) in the Latin language we use few commas therefore I believe die 4 Iulii 2015 it's better than 4 Iulii, 2015 Helveticus montanus. Ciao (disputatio) 06:58, 4 Iulii 2015 (UTC)

Anglice quoque: "July 4, 2015" aut "4 July 2015," sed numquam "4 July, 2015." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:23, 4 Iulii 2015 (UTC)
Yes. It is very good you take time improve this. I will do my best to remember this. Like you and probably many here, we want to write many article but there is so little time and it is easy to forget. --Jondel (disputatio) 09:59, 4 Iulii 2015 (UTC)

Radiotherapia[fontem recensere]

Aliquas emendationes fecit. I've done some corrections, I hope you agree with them. Ciao from Switzerland Max--Helveticus montanus (disputatio) 06:59, 22 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

As long as you didn't delete content and the latin is decent I am rather appreciative of it. --Jondel (disputatio) 06:32, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)
Ciao from Pasay, the Philippines.--Jondel (disputatio) 06:58, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

Injection, Syringe et Hypodermic needle[fontem recensere]

Dear Jondel, I have checked in Carolus Egger, Lexicon Latinum hodiernum' (the written edition, there is also a version on-line Lexicon recentis Latinitatis,, but unfortunately I've not found an answer for these three words. I will try again on the internet. Ciao--Helveticus montanus (disputatio) 10:38, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

I 've tried thanks anyway. --Jondel (disputatio) 12:00, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)
From Traupman's dictionary: injection = iniectio and syringe = clyster. (Traupman, Ioannes. 2007. Latin and English Dictionary. Ed. 3a. Philadelphiae: St. Joseph's University. ISBN 9780553590128.) Hypodermic needle is not in there, but here's a source for acus subcutanea. Lesgles (disputatio) 18:01, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

Are you OK with clyster? Do you know what else a 'clyster' refers to? I ' m hesitant.--Jondel (disputatio) 22:02, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much Lesgles and Helveticus. I will work on this soon.--Jondel (disputatio) 22:04, 23 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

If we want to avoid the association with enemas, this Russian-Latin dictionary gives "iniector medicus" for syringe. Otherwise, syringe comes from medieval Latin syringa, which might be acceptable. Lesgles (disputatio) 18:46, 27 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

Eugepage! Awesome Lesgles. I will be sure to put this in the notes.--Jondel (disputatio) 09:44, 29 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

'acus' is femine. I need to move the article to Acus hypodermica.--Jondel (disputatio) 07:30, 31 Augusti 2015 (UTC)

Fernão Pires de Andrade[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. You need to go back to the page Fernão Pires de Andrade fairly quickly!

  1. First, what is his name? Is it Fernão Pires de Andrade or Tomé Pires? Or if it's both, you have to explain.
  2. Second, your footnote says "Madureira 1590-151". What does this mean? Is it a reference? What to? A source reference has to be something that other Wikipedians can follow up: they need to verify your work.
  3. Third, you need to link the page to other wikis. The infobox (capsa) will not work until you do that. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:31, 2 Septembris 2015 (UTC)
My apologies Andrew. I got confused with the Pires name with Tome, started investigating, distracted and eventually forgot about the whole thing.--Jondel (disputatio) 00:15, 3 Septembris 2015 (UTC)
It happens to me too! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:51, 3 Septembris 2015 (UTC)
     :] --Jondel (disputatio) 14:17, 3 Septembris 2015 (UTC)

Arjunus[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. I notice you removed the "dubsig" from the word "origa". I didn't put it there, but, speaking for myself, I don't know what the word means and don't really understand that sentence. Would you like to tell me in English what it's trying to say? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:22, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the Whitaker dictionary is wrong? 'He was taught divine science by Krishna, god and charioteer.' --Jondel (disputatio) 13:09, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it's wrong, or it's favoring Vulgar Latin pronunciation. The Classical word is auriga. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:17, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Iacobus.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:54, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)
I will change this to auriga. origa is the old form.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:14, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)
Yes, you're right, I didn't know that. "Auriga" makes things much clearer, thanks. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:24, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)
your welcome Andrew and thank you for pointing this out Andrew.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:54, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)
You still haven't noticed that Krishnadeo isn't a word. Quite often in your texts, an obligatory space is missing. Does the device that you're using have a stuck spacebar? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:20, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)

Sorry. I will be more careful.Im fixing the deo thing now.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:47, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC) Thanks for fixing Iacobus.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:50, 13 Octobris 2015 (UTC)

Capsae[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. When adding a "capsa hominis" it's best to check whether it uses the same image that we already have. If so, look in Commons in case there is a different one we can use. Finally, if there is no other, our separate image should (nearly always) be deleted, because there is no reason to show the same image twice. I'm looking at Felix Houphouët-Boigny and Carolus Ginzburg, for example. (There was a discussion and agreement on this soon after I created the formula, but I can't remember where the discussion is ...) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:56, 15 Novembris 2015 (UTC)

Great work! I will try to look into this. I guess the image shouldn't be shown twice. By the way, you live in France? Well it is good to see you active here and I guess not too adversely affected by bombings! Keep safe and keep up the good work!--Jondel (disputatio) 11:45, 17 Novembris 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Jondel! Sorry I missed this reply till now. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:15, 20 Novembris 2015 (UTC)

Gameta/gametus[fontem recensere]

Hello Jondel,

I was looking for the Latin word for gamete when writing the page bryophyta, and I found your page gameta, which gives gameta, gamete and gametus. I only found gametus in the sources, so I used that. Do you have a source for gameta? Bavo C. Jozef (disputatio) 16:59, 20 Novembris 2015 (UTC)

One source 
https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=uJcL_Uud0OkC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=gameta+new+latin&source=bl&ots=Uzrd7aSmvx&sig=MCvq6yPAuhjgwmjRpNJ4Wp0Bink&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie0JzMtaHJAhWDE5QKHf59BKEQ6AEIQjAJ#v=onepage&q=gameta%20new%20latin&f=false
Please also try googling and searching for this.:

1885-90; < New Latin gameta < Greek gamet- (stem of gametḗ wife, gamétēs husband), derivative of gameîn to marry

I hope this helps.By the way, I would appreciate it if you could improve the page's latin.--Jondel (disputatio) 11:12, 21 Novembris 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I changed the word in bryophyta and I improved the Latin of gameta a bit. Bavo C. Jozef (disputatio) 15:45, 22 Novembris 2015 (UTC)

Kei Taniguchi[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. Are you able to translate from Japanese to Latin? I ask because I might begin an article on the mountaineer Kei Taniguchi. There is no English article yet, but there is a Japanese one. I'll link to it and if you can add anything from it, great. This if I have time ... busy day ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:01, 25 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

I would love to translate it! At the moment I was gathering material for a future latin article of the Boxer Rebellion.--Jondel (disputatio) 10:21, 25 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

De iubilaeo Vicipaedianorum

Annum 2016 prosperum et felicem omnibus amicis Vicipaedianis opto! Apud Tabernam consentivimus annum 2016 (quem iubilaeum nostrum Helveticus nuncupavit) praecipue dedicare ad textum paginarum Vicipaedicarum augendum et meliorandum. Huic proposito consentiens (si tu consentis!) sic pro communi inceptu nostro agere potes:

  • Quando paginas novas legibiles, fontibus munitas, et non brevissimas creare vis, crea! Ne timeas!
  • Quandocumque paginam aut breviorem aut mendosam aut male confectam reperis, cura! corrige! auge!
  • Si paginam novam brevissimam creare in mentem habes, recogita ... An potius textum longiorem scribere oportet? An prius aliam paginam, iam exstantem, augere potes?

Quo dicto, Vicipaediani liberi sumus. Paginae etiam breves, quae inter veras "stipulas" admitti possunt (vide formulam "Non stipula"), accepturae sunt sicut iam antea accipi solent. Scribe igitur sine metu, sicut iam scripsisti! [en] Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:51, 1 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago o Andrew.---Jondel (disputatio) 03:59, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
Thanks and happy New Year again, Jondel. Sorry about the little formatting puzzle -- I didn't realise that including the section heading in the formula would have that effect on the edit button. We live and learn! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:35, 2 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
No problem about the formatting. Hsppy New Year! I hope you will still monitor and try to improve the quality of the Latin in the articles. --Jondel (disputatio) 14:56, 4 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)

Four on the brink[fontem recensere]

Jondel, I deleted four more long-term Non-stipula pages that were yours, I think: Akim, Dinalupihan, Balanga, Pilar. I will restore them to life right away if you want to work on them -- just ask. In general they want a bit more text and an external source. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:23, 9 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Andrew, I appreciate your inform me on this. I would like to take you up on that, to restore them and I will in turn work on those resources. Right now I 'm focused on the Stigmata rewrite.Jondel (disputatio) 19:02, 9 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
OK, will do. Take your time. I don't think anyone else is deleting non-stipulae right now. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:52, 9 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
Thank you so much!--Jondel (disputatio) 19:55, 9 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

We don't edit-war[fontem recensere]

Jondel, I've heard from more than one other editor that you remove Latinity markings without justification. I just saw that at Medicina succursoria you did it without making any improvement; yesterday I think, at Acus sarcinatoria, you made the Latinity worse and then removed the mark. (Worse because "instrumentum tenuis" and "ab prisca tempora" cannot possibly be correct.)

We don't edit-war on Vicipaedia: no one ever does, so if an editor puts a Latinity mark on a page another editor doesn't fight to remove it. Instead, the other editor looks to see what's wrong. But I think, too, you have to admit that you can't yet construct a grammatical Latin sentence without help: so you can't really judge that the Latinity is OK: so you shouldn't remove Latinity marks. Tell me if you think that's unfair! But no more edit wars. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:50, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

It seems to me that this is a general principle: we shouldn't remove Latinitas rankings added by other editors (or at least by well-skilled other editors!) to pages that we've created. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:48, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes, I think that is a very good principle and I would agree that in future we should all follow it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:48, 14 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
I saw your note to Neander on my talk page. I was going to add this comment anyway: I'll add it now. You often ask other editors to indicate all the mistakes in your Latin texts. You can ask, and maybe they will help you! But think about it from the other point of view. It seems to me that you are saying: "I refuse to learn Latin from a textbook. I demand that you teach me." Again, tell me if that's unfair. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:57, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
You are making this up Andrew. I routinely ask for help at the Taberna, which is always ignored. You are assuming edit war too soon. I made improvements. Jondel (disputatio) 18:05, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
I made an improvement.Jondel (disputatio) 18:06, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
No. I would agree that you took out two words. But you need to think seriously about the points I raise above. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:15, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

If you interpret me as saying "I refuse to learn Latin from a textbook", that comes from you, ok. I am not saying "I refuse to learn..." and have been open to the best of my knowledge and made appeals in on the taberna. I don't edit war, even at the English wiki. However, I need to keep progressing.I'm out for now.Jondel (disputatio) 18:21, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

I'd guess the background here is that it looks as if your texts haven't benefited from taking a course in which the grammar is presented in a standard way, with one thing leading to another in a pedagogically proven order, the result being a kind of grammatical Swiss cheese, in which you know some useful things well, but other useful things not at all. By removing rankings of –3, –4, and such, you're showing that you don't see your errors for what they are. I've occasionally tried to help by adding dubsigs. Of course, ideally each error should be explained to you, but volunteers like the rest of us seldom have the time to do that. It's what a teacher in an academic setting might do. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:36, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
Focus on this point, please, Jondel: "you can't really judge that the Latinity is OK: so you shouldn't remove Latinity marks". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:28, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
Yes! But as I've suggested above, I think this point is pertinent not only here, but everywhere, and it could be elevated to a general principle, applicable to all people who create pages; however, the principle would need an exception to allow for correcting rankings wrongly added by unskilled writers (or even vandals), so I don't know how it would be enforced. :/ IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:54, 13 Februarii 2016 (UTC)
We don't need to enforce (luckily) because we all follow rules! If such a case arose, I guess we'd merely ask a third editor to judge. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:48, 14 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Jondel, please, pay heed to Andrew's and Iacobus's wise words. Nobody wants to disparage you. The reason for Latinitas tags is "consumer guidance" — to indicate to the casual reader that (1.) the article in question is to be read with some benevolence because it may contain words or phrases that are alien to standard Latin, and (2.) the article is supposed to be corrected in the near future. I could't but rewrite the entire article, loosely basing the translation on the English source text. Neander (disputatio) 09:23, 14 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Neander, kindly stop saying things like this.' timeo ne bellum editorum mihi et Jondelio oriturum sit de medicina succursoria. 'Oh am I supposed to not be able to understand this because its in Latin? You are also being snobbish by not responding to my latin reply back at Andrew's discussion page, why here? Because you can all three of you can gang up on me? I did not edit war, because, as best as I could, made an improvement. The original at the time of the latinatis is different.

I will accede and not change the Latinitas. However, allow to express that I do appreciate your presence, and also ask that you do your best to accommodate me. I don't want that you have to rewrite the articles.

There's no ganging up and certainly no snobbishness. It seems to me that Neander was spending some time working with you, and that he asked my advice because this edit of yours was so unhelpful that he did not know how best to continue. I responded as I did because I had also noticed this edit from the day before, which struck me as similarly unhelpful. To answer your other comments as well as I can, there is no point in making the same argument in more than one place, and this is a good place for the discussion. I started in English here because I think that English is the easiest language between you and me. Neander had previously written in Latin on my page as he usually does: discussions in Latin are normal on Vicipaedia; English is also OK. There is no problem there, I think.
I am sorry if you disliked my comment "It seems to me that you are saying, 'I refuse to learn Latin from a textbook'" above, but I was simply speaking as I would between professionals -- you and I have both been translators -- inviting you to say if it was unfair.
I am really happy you've agreed not to change the Latinitas mark on pages you have created. I believe Iacobus's idea is good, and we should all follow the same practice. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:50, 14 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate your help, and Neander's and Iacobus and trying to fix these things. Could we chill out for a while? There is no need to stick to Latin, only not being well, snobbish.English is fine. Whatever the established language of communication, same as probably the English-French situation of where you live(France?). If I don't participate in the Latin discussions, many times its because I don't have anything to contribute. I will do my best to deepen my Latin.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:34, 14 Februarii 2016 (UTC)

Footnotes as Stigma (religio)[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. I just saw this page with its huge number of footnotes. Footnotes need to be formatted better than that -- and if, knowing that, you choose not to have so many, that's just fine! If you look at the talk page, you'll see I've tried to explain how Wikipedia footnotes and external links should be formatted. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:10, 6 Martii 2016 (UTC)

And when many short footnotes occur, the layout may benefit from reducing the blank and vertical space by using two (or more) columns, begun as {{div col|2}} and ended as {{div col end}}. Several other ways are available to make columns, but these are the ones that may work best in most circumstances. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:17, 6 Martii 2016 (UTC)

Noted. I will be working on this. Iacobus I think your dubsigs are excessive this time are they really required? --Jondel (disputatio) 19:42, 6 Martii 2016 (UTC)

"in sitione britannica"[fontem recensere]

Hi, Jondel. In new pages I notice you often using the words "in sitione britannica". "Britannica" means British, but "in sitione" doesn't seem to mean anything. Trying to work out what you intended, my best guess is that you mean "at the Encyclopaedia Britannica site". Is that it?

One possible format for citing the Encyclopaedia Britannica is what I've done at Ruth. It's appropriate to use the heading == Bibliographia == because this is a professional publication, though now only available on line. At any rate, you need to change your wording ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:46, 30 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

You're right . I will do my best to root out these mistakes of 'sitione' . --Jondel (disputatio) 15:22, 30 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it is what I meant, "at the Encyclopaedia Britannica site". I will be changing this to "Pagina Encyclopaediae Britannicae . --Jondel (disputatio) 15:34, 30 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
Certainly, that expression makes good sense. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:48, 30 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
Generally, site refers to everything contained in a URL ending in dot-com, dot-org, and such, and a page is part of a site (in the URL, to the right of the com, org, etc.). Here, then, if the reference is to a particular article, it correctly refers to a page, which can be found on the encyclopedia's site. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:40, 30 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
'Situs' would be recommended? Thanks again for pointing out that sitio means 'I thirst'.--Jondel (disputatio) 22:39, 30 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)

Rosa Viterbiensis[fontem recensere]

Gratias, Jondel. --Cláudio José Aarão Rangel (disputatio) 05:08, 8 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Me placet. --Jondel (disputatio) 05:25, 8 Maii 2016 (UTC)

Bibliography[fontem recensere]

I changed "bibliographia" to "nexus externi" because the links that appears under that sections are external links, not bibliography used in the article. My mother tongue is Spanish :). --Katxis (disputatio) 13:00, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)

Pero porque es solo es-4 en su tabula, no es como materna? Entendido de bibliographia.Encantado a conocerle.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:08, 12 Iunii 2016 (UTC)