Disputatio:Sina
Other meanings of Sina[fontem recensere]
I dunno for the main discussion but there’s an other point : Sina redirect to Sinae but Sina is Sinai too. So Sina probably sould be a disambiguation page, isn’t it ? Cdlt, Vigneron * discut. 10:11, 27 Augusti 2009 (UTC)
- An anonymus has now created a discretiva page responding to this: but we need a citation, please, for Sina = Sinai. There's no mention of this variant name on the page itself.
- The anonymus also added
- "Sina (Xansia)": I think we need a citation for that name too; and
- "Sina (Ptolomaeus)", where, apart from the non-standard spelling of Ptolemaeus, I suggest there are two reasons why we won't perhaps want to create that page: 1. surely Ptolemy called it "Sinae" (pl.) not "Sina"? 2. He listed it as the first stage of the Silk Road, so, whatever its spelling, it surely isn't different from "Sina (Xansia)" -- whatever the authority for that name may be. He just didn't realise how much further on the coast was.
- For the present I've standardised the discretiva page a bit (better to have only one blue link, and if necessary one redlink, per line) and I took out "Sina (Ptolomaeus)", but, of course, if there is reason for it, it can be put back!
- I added a link to the discretiva page Sinae. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:09, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- The sources are the english wikipedia articles on Chang'an, Xi'an, and Xianyuang; the capital cities of the chinese empire; and Hofmann's articles on Sina, one of which calls Sina one of the cities in Xansia. I think Sinae is a transliteration of Ptolemy into Latin; but Hofmann's article on Sina offers Sina as the latin name of any one of those cities which lay in Xansia near the end/beginning of the silk road , which would have to be Chang'an/Xi'an (the Han capital) or Xianyuang the Qin capital. Contrary to Ptolemy it does not lie on the coast, there was no costal chinese metropolis at the time he claims except Canton, but rather the capital and end of the silk road was in the interior, near the center of present day china at Xi'an. Ptolemy was wrong in many aspects of his map of china. In fact, Sina/Xi'an lay in the region named Serica (north interior) which was thought to be different than Sinae (coast), and also Cathaya. But After commissioning many trips to China late in the 1700's they finally figured that all three were the same place, and it is reflected in the evolution of the maps as shown in the many Wikipedia articles and other books, a subject certainly worthy of discussion on our Sinae (regio) page. The upshot I think is that there is possibly some other metropolis that Ptolemy was referring to by Sinae, perhaps Sina, but who knows, since his map of china was so screwed up. --173.70.154.122 14:36, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- Fine, thanks for explaining. I don't think we really disagree about Ptolemy's views. And by sending me to Hofmann you show me that he calls mount Sinai Sina, so that answers another of my questions. I'll add the reference to the relevant page. However, Hofmann's article about China is headed Sinae (plural), so that does not appear to support the "Sina (Xansia)" of this discretiva page: unless I'm mistaken Hofmann only supports "Sinae", plural, just as Ptolemy does. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:59, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- There is more than one article by Hofmann on Sina; look further down the page for the article on Sina the city in Xansia. In his article on Sinae (regio); he recounts some of the history of the term Sinae to refer to China, which includes a reference to Ptolemy's Sinae; but he consistently uses Sina for Latin name of the city in Xansia.--173.70.154.122 15:10, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, yes, I see it now. Sorry, my fault. So do we suppose it to be the modern Xi'an, the ancient capital, the beginning of the Silk Road and (I guess) the most likely candidate for Ptolemy's Sinae/Thinae and the Periplus's Thina; or is it some other place in Xansia? Unless there's more about it elsewhere that I haven't seen yet, Hoffman doesn't seem to offer many clues!
- Yes, re-reading your comment above, I guess we do think it's the same place. OK, fine.
- A further comment on Ptolemy: his text does not say that Sinai/Thinai is on the coast. In fact he specifically lists it as an inland city (Geography, 7.3.6). And he also says that it's the capital, metropolis. The Periplus (64), likewise, specifically describes it as a "very great inland city" and says that it is the place where the silk route begins. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:43, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- There is more than one article by Hofmann on Sina; look further down the page for the article on Sina the city in Xansia. In his article on Sinae (regio); he recounts some of the history of the term Sinae to refer to China, which includes a reference to Ptolemy's Sinae; but he consistently uses Sina for Latin name of the city in Xansia.--173.70.154.122 15:10, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- Fine, thanks for explaining. I don't think we really disagree about Ptolemy's views. And by sending me to Hofmann you show me that he calls mount Sinai Sina, so that answers another of my questions. I'll add the reference to the relevant page. However, Hofmann's article about China is headed Sinae (plural), so that does not appear to support the "Sina (Xansia)" of this discretiva page: unless I'm mistaken Hofmann only supports "Sinae", plural, just as Ptolemy does. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:59, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
- The sources are the english wikipedia articles on Chang'an, Xi'an, and Xianyuang; the capital cities of the chinese empire; and Hofmann's articles on Sina, one of which calls Sina one of the cities in Xansia. I think Sinae is a transliteration of Ptolemy into Latin; but Hofmann's article on Sina offers Sina as the latin name of any one of those cities which lay in Xansia near the end/beginning of the silk road , which would have to be Chang'an/Xi'an (the Han capital) or Xianyuang the Qin capital. Contrary to Ptolemy it does not lie on the coast, there was no costal chinese metropolis at the time he claims except Canton, but rather the capital and end of the silk road was in the interior, near the center of present day china at Xi'an. Ptolemy was wrong in many aspects of his map of china. In fact, Sina/Xi'an lay in the region named Serica (north interior) which was thought to be different than Sinae (coast), and also Cathaya. But After commissioning many trips to China late in the 1700's they finally figured that all three were the same place, and it is reflected in the evolution of the maps as shown in the many Wikipedia articles and other books, a subject certainly worthy of discussion on our Sinae (regio) page. The upshot I think is that there is possibly some other metropolis that Ptolemy was referring to by Sinae, perhaps Sina, but who knows, since his map of china was so screwed up. --173.70.154.122 14:36, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)