Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium 8

Haec est taberna Vicipaediae ubi potes si dubia habes, explanationes quaerere, nuntia ad nos mittere et cetera. Ut sententias antiquiores legas vide tabernae acta priora.

Quaestio nova

Compendia VP:T

Hic colloqui possumus.

Pagina mensis display query

Why is the prima pagina displaying an old version of the article Cuba, instead of the current version? Should somebody fix the software? IacobusAmor 01:35, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

When I'm looking at it anonymously it is still displaying aspectus. My computer's been doing this for a while now (see Disputatio Usoris:Massimo Macconi#Pagina Mensis). I think something will need tweaking in the software. UV? Harrissimo 02:07, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Maybe I should clarify: what the pagina prima is displaying on my screen is the correct pagina mensis, but the wrong version of it. Something is amiss! IacobusAmor 02:14, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

You need to force a refresh of the buffer on your browser. Most browsers store stuff/pages in a buffer for a certain amount of time. --Rafaelgarcia 02:23, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

How do you do that (with firefox)? Harrissimo 02:25, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

If I press control-shift and click reload, it reloads all of the page elements.--Rafaelgarcia 02:51, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Harrissimo 03:00, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

For some reason it doesn't always work however. I think this may be a bug in firefox. --Rafaelgarcia 15:41, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Improbi imaginum tituli!

In tribus commentariis—Aana (Samoa), Aiga-i-le-Tai, Tuamasaga—tabula (mota e vicipaedia Anglica) recte apparet, sed titulus (Anglice: 'caption') se celat. Ubi sunt tituli? IacobusAmor 02:31, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Scribatur sic:

[[Imago:Samoa-Tuamasaga.png|right|thumb|Tabula Samoana, Tuamasagam pagum monstrans]]. Harrissimo 02:39, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Apology

I added some too-brief biographies last night -- didn't get round to filling them out. I promise I will! Meanwhile, if anyone is troubled by them, please add {{In progressu}} (as I intended to do) rather than {{Non-stipula}}. Thanks! Andrew Dalby 09:48, 3 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Break out

How can I say "the war broke out" in Latin? Thx in advance!!--Le K-li 01:06, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Bellum incepit?--Rafaelgarcia 01:21, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Bellum exortum est. Harrissimo 01:33, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Or: Bellum exstitit, ortum est, natum est, exarsit (the best I think), incidit. If it is clear who started the war, however, a personal construction would be preferable: bellum concitare, excitare, suscitare, concire, movere, commovere, conflare, moliri, inferre alicui, etc. --Ceylon 07:17, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

There is an idiom "pugnatum est" (literally "it was fought", but really "there is fighting/battle/war"), so "pugnatum erat" could also work. Adam Episcopus 14:06, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I thought you wanted to write about the video game, and I was very excited . . . --Ioscius ^(disp) 14:27, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Rogelio Lopez, Heroes and Viris Fortissimus

Apparently Rogelio Lopez is unable to read or has some personal issues. We moved his page to the Scriptorium but he ignores it and ignores messages sent to him. What should be done?--Rafaelgarcia 14:47, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Maybe his classmates will explain. They are all from the same school. Andrew Dalby 15:51, 4 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Maybe he doesn't know how to read his messages. He's just gone and created that same page again. I think if he doesn't get the hang of it, we'll have to get one of his classmates to show him how. Harrissimo 02:51, 10 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Subjunctive 2

Would I just use a normal subjunctive for "were to"? For example would si curras, me videas mean "if you were to run, you would see me" and does latin use a 2nd person to represent the gender inspecific 'one' ('man' in German)? Harrissimo 17:58, 5 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

That's right. It gets a little messier if you are using indirect speech and you are speaking of events in the imperfect and pluperfect. (Personally I find the Latin sequence of tenses impossibly nuanced.) For impersonal "one", the passive is more likely ("curritur" = "there is running" = "one runs"). In medieval Latin they lazily began to use "quidam" and even "unus" as an indefinite article. Adam Episcopus 21:17, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Harrissimo 21:26, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

e praeferentiis ...

in praeferentiis, servavi gadgetem (!) "Vertere omnes 'j' in 'i'". errorem habet: quoque vertit omnes 'J' in 'i', non in 'I'. potest aliquis ferre auxilium mihi? a mense Iacobi Recensoris (disputare)
18:42, die 5 mensis Februarii a.d. 2008

Errorem correxi. Thanks for reporting! (You might need to force-refresh the page or clear your browser's cache for the fix to take effect.) --UV 20:56, 5 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Nova pagina gregis musici

Salvete!

I'd like to write an article on Mudhoney, but I'm not sure about several things:

- It seems from the other Rock pages, that the band names aren't declined. But what, if I want to use an AcI with Mudhoney as accusative subject? Isn't it confusing not to decline it? Or else, what is the accusative? Shall I make one up? Is it Mudhoneium or Mudhoneiam (considering that the source of the name is a movie about a woman...)?

- I've seen that the article on Green Day has the band's name latinized. Is that recommended. Or wouldn't it be nicer to have both, English and Latin names, as title of the article?

That's because the then-publisher of the band's CDs (and longtime bandsmen's friend, who has been known to read Latin authors) said he liked it when I tried it out on him, about ten years ago. The principle ordinarily cited is that Vicipaedia doesn't Latinize surnames, brand names, logos, trademarks, and such, unless the owner of them also Latinizes them; or if it does Latinize them, it treats the Latinization as a secondary form, and features the original as the standard form. ¶ There's one band whose name egregiously invites the dreaded & condescending "sic": Rudimentary Peni [sic] (recte Rudimentary Penes). And likewise there's Procul Harum [sic] (recte Procul His, if anything). IacobusAmor 18:06, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - I moved the page. If you cite who that guy was, you can move it back. Apologiae, Harrissimo 18:42, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Vide: Laurentius Livermore. IacobusAmor 19:47, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

- Is there a list of words that are suitable for writing about bands? I don't own a dictionary for contemporary latin yet, but I don't want to make unnecessary mistakes - and I don't want to end my article up as "written in latina dubia :-) Till now, I had some orientation by looking at the other band pages.

- The singer of Mudhoney has the artist's name Arm, and it referes to the body part. Should I translate it although it's kind of a familiy name? Or should I explain it at the beginning of the article? Are there any rules for that? (I just found something about the "official" family names.)

Thanks for answering!

--Passera 17:49, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

• • The relevant rule as to the naming is Vicipaedia:Translatio nominum propriorum#Societates, which basically says don't decline it. For a lot of the latin bible and in a lot of works, people have used indeclinables in latin. BUT I'm not about how to handle them. One of my teachers once recommended putting ille or iste in front of an indeclinable if it is completely necessary to change. And he is a doctor of classics so I take his word for it. If you want to translate, as in Dies Viridis, you should do so after the bold lemma in Italics. So yes, there are both english and latin titles. Don't follow the Dies Viridis example - I'll move it shortly.
  • There is not a specific list of band related words that I know of. VP:LLI has some good links which I imagine will include some band-related vocabulary. This site may help too (you'll probably need to use ctrl +f - it is a very large document).
  • If you want to buy a dictionary, see Lexica Neolatina
  • At Vicipaedia:Translatio nominum propriorum#Nomina hominum you will see that there is no need to translate Arm either (call him iste Arm if you must). Harrissimo 18:25, 6 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Aménŏphis, Amenōphis

Ait Iustinus: "Everyone I know pronounces this Aménŏphis, but all the loci antiqui I can find show Amenōphis."—Something like anémone, which turns out actually to be anĕmōnē? IacobusAmor 22:43, 7 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Iustinus recte dicit. Apud auctores Graecos antiquos (Flavium Iosephum, Manethonem, etc.) nomen scribitur Ἀμένωφις, i.e. cum O longa. Regulam Erasmianam secuti, ut plerumque Germani, accentum Graecum respectantes, qualitatem tamen vocalium saepissime neglegentes, hoc pronuntiant Aménŏfis, sed regula Henniniana usi, ut plerique Anglice et Batave loquentium, accentum Graecum omnino praetereuntes, regulas tamen accentūs Latini adhibentes, pronuntiare debeant Amenófis, quod - cuius rei Iustinus noster testis est - non semper faciunt. Quod attinet ad nomen 'anemone' [ἀνεμώνη, ănĕmōnē]: hoc secundum utramque regulam pronuntiandum sit anemóne; quod docet nos numquam accentum anglicum adhibendum esse pro latino! ;-) --Fabullus 09:37, 8 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Wise is he who studies history

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to translate Wise is he who studies history but my problem is I have never studied latin.

Based on the structure of Felix qui potuit rerum cognescere causas and after a few hours online I've come up with something like Sapiens qui studet antiquitates... which might be totally wrong.

Could someone help, please, keeping in mind that the idea is not to say that the study of history makes you wise but that you are wise to undertake it.

Thanks. Denis. 58.8.151.178 23:25, 8 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Qui historia studet sapiens est.Qui historiae studet sapiens est.--Rafaelgarcia 23:51, 8 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I think studere takes the dative. Harrissimo 00:12, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Yep you're right. fixed above.--Rafaelgarcia 00:15, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Or, following the (Vergilian) pattern suggested by Denis: Sapiens qui antiquitati studet or Sapiens qui antiquitatibus studet. --Neander 00:25, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't think "history" is necessarily the same as "antiquity/the ancients"...also I would think est is necessary to complete the thought?--Rafaelgarcia 00:43, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

The classical languages sometimes omit the verb to be (especially in sayings). E.g. Dominus illuminatio mea and Respice post te! Te hominem memento!. Harrissimo 01:00, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Thanks to all,

From what I could gather—and understand of it— historia means 'inquiry' (as in Herodotus), not 'history'. For the Romans antiquita (time past) would not have meant 'antiquity' but would indeed have been closer to our modern 'history'. That's if I'm not mistaken, of course...

You're not mistaken (except in that the nominative is 'antiquitas') but Herodotus was writing in an entirely different language three or four hundred years before the age of classical Latin; ιστορία is not necessarily the same as historia (which, for that matter, is not necessarily the same as history, but the meaning, AIUI, has been narrowing over time, so apparently a history is normally a sort of historia and an historia is a sort of ιστορία). —Mucius Tever 05:13, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, if I understand correctly, the difference between Sapiens qui antiquitati studet and Sapiens qui antiquitatibus studet is one of singular/plural. But aren't antiquitati and antiquitatibus datives [1] and shouldn't the accusative be used?

They are indeed datives. Studeo is one of the few verbs that take a dative rather than an accusative. Harrissimo 02:02, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Thanks again. Denis. 158.108.54.15 01:52, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I really wouldn't use the word studere to mean "study", although you are certainly right in that studere takes the dative. Operam dare is much neater... and what's wrong with historia? Cicero certainly uses both...

On Caesar's commentaries

• Valde quidem, inquam, probandos; nudi enim sunt, recti et venusti, omni ornatu orationis tamquam veste detracta. sed dum voluit alios habere parata, unde sumerent qui vellent scribere historiam -- Brut 262
• 'Neque tamen, haec cum scribebam, eram nescius, quantis oneribus premerere susceptarum rerum et iam institutarum; sed, quia videbam Italici belli et civilis historiam iam a te paene esse perfectam, dixeras autem mihi te reliquas res ordiri, deesse mihi nolui, quin te admonerem, ut cogitares, coniunctene malles cum reliquis rebus nostra contexere an, ut multi Graeci fecerunt, Callisthenes Phocium bellum, Timaeus Pyrrhi, Polybius Numantinum, qui omnes a perpetuis suis historiis ea, quae dixi, bella separaverunt, tu quoque item civilem coniurationem ab hostilibus externisque bellis seiungeres. -- Ad Fam V.12 Lucceio

and

• quare qui eloquentiae verae dat operam, dat prudentiae, qua ne maxumis quidem in bellis aequo animo carere quisquam potest. -- Brut 23

etc... --Ioscius ^(disp) 01:58, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Please, notice the difference Denis was already pointing at: You can write a history (scribere historiam) but you can't write those ancient events and happenings (antiquitas) that historians write about. In Cicero, historia means 'historical narrative' (as he himself testifies to by characterising Herodotus as pater historiae). And what's wrong with studere antiquitati? Cicero has studere artibus, disciplinae, iuri, litteris. If Cicero said, as he did, studium antiquitatis, it'd be strange to bar him from saying studeo antiquitati. --Neander 03:02, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Sapiens qui antiquitatibus studet seems to translate best what I had in mind. Thanks to Neander and to everyone else. Denis. 58.8.151.178 08:32, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Or, attending to the connotations in Cassell's*: Sapiens qui antiquitatis memoriam cognoscit.—*Which says studere, incumbere, and operam dare are 'to pay attention to a thing', but 'to inquire systematically into a subject' is rem cognoscere and in rem inquirere. But of course antiquitas and antiquitatis memoria are 'ancient history' and shouldn't include the history of the twentieth century, or the nineteenth, or the eighteenth, or perhaps even the sixth; for just plain 'history', Cassell's suggests historia, rerum gestarum memoria, res (gestae), and annales. IacobusAmor 12:45, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

While we're at it...

...and since you guys seem to be real pros, how would you render in latin the following sentence by Bertrand Russell : The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time ?
Thanks in advance. Denis. 58.8.151.178 12:30, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Tempus iucunde perditum non est perditum ? --Ceylon 12:43, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Perfect and gnomically striking! Neander 14:17, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Traupman dat "absumere" et "terere" pro sensu temporali. Fortasse: "Tempus quod absumere frueris non est tempus absumptum." (ita est verbosior sententia quam illam Ceylon scripsit) Perdere non mi placet quia potius significat rem contra libidinem vel voluntatem amissam, at fortasse absumere non est verbum aptissimum...--Ioscius ^(disp) 13:47, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Nonne "tempus quo frueris", quia "frui" ablativus requirit? Adam Episcopus 15:17, 10 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

At quid requirit ipsum requirit?--Ceylon 06:49, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Mea culpa, "ablativum"! Adam Episcopus 08:33, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

No... because "quod" is the object of "absumere" which is the object of "frueris" . . . --Ioscius ^(disp) 17:31, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. Shouldn't then the object of frueris, absumere, be in the ablative? Hence Tempus quod absumendo frueris non est tempus absumptum? (By the way, Traupman Conv. Lat. suggests also perdere and 'conterere for waste in the sense of wasting time, so there seems to be wide lattitude in usages to convey this meaning.)--Rafaelgarcia 12:33, 12 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

No... infinitives don't need to decline, no matter what governs them... And I like conterere, Sallust uses it.--Ioscius ^(disp) 20:05, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Peter Abelard used "vacare" in the sense of wasting time, but perhaps that is a medievalism. Adam Episcopus 16:50, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah...nevermind. Adam Episcopus 08:48, 12 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I go with Ceylon. If it be true that perdere means something 'amittere contra libidinem vel voluntatem', then 'iucunde perditum' becomes a perfect oxymoron, worthy of Russell. --Fabullus 14:42, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Certainly the second wasted means perdere (and at the very least Tempus iucunde absumptum non est perditum would be literal), but it is more poetic to keep both as perdere as Ceylon has done and I like his version better. --Rafaelgarcia 17:03, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Compressing Ceylon's version further: Gaudium perditum non est perditum. IacobusAmor 18:10, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Are you serious?!  :–)   --Neander 19:47, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Gaudium pro Vicipaedia augenda perditum (imprimisque die Saturni vergente) non est perditum!--Ceylon 20:33, 9 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Emery Molyneux: Translation of non-English terms

Help would be much appreciated in translating the following book titles, passages and terms appearing in the article "Emery Molyneux" that are not in English:

• "Thomas Cavendish 18 Dec. 1587 hæc terra sub nostris oculis primum obtulit sub latitud 47 cujus seu odnodum salubris Incolæ maturi ex parte proceri sunt gigantes et vasti magnitudinis".
• "Emerius Mulleneux Angl.' / sumptibus Gulielmi— / Sandersoni Londinē: / sis descripsit" – "Emerius Mulleneux" is Emery Molyneux, "Angl." probably refers to the fact that he is English, "Gulielmi— Sandersoni" is the name of Molyneux's patron William Sanderson who was a Londoner ("Londinē:/sis"), but what do "sumpibus" and "descripsit" mean?
• "Iodocus Hon: / dius Flan. Sc." – "Iodocus Hondius" is Jodocus Hondius and "Flan." probably refers to the fact that he was from Flanders. Any idea what "Sc." is? Hondius was a cartographer and engraver.
• "Theatrum orbis terrarum, opus nunc denuó ab ipso auctore recognitum mustisqué locis castigatum, & quamplurimis nouis, tabilis atqué commentarijs auctum".
• "Tractatus de globis et eorum usu: accommodatus iis qui Londini editi sunt anno 1593, sumptibus Gulielmi Sandersoni civis Londinensis, conscriptus à Roberto Hues".
• "Tractatus de globis coelesti et terrestri ac eorum usu, conscriptus a Roberto Hues, denuo auctior & emendatior editus".
• "Tractatvs de globis, coelesti et terrestri eorvmqve vsv. Primum conscriptus & editus a Roberto Hues. Anglo semelque atque iterum a Iudoco Hondio excusus, & nunc elegantibus iconibus & figuris locupletatus: ac de novo recognitus multisque observationibus oportunè illustratus as passim auctus opera ac studio Iohannis Isacii Pontani... Excudebat H. Hondius".
• "Tractatvs de globis, coelesti et terrestri, ac eorvm vsv. ... Francofvrti ad Moenvm: Typis & sumptibus VVechelianorum, apud Danielem & Dauidem Aubrios & Clementem Schleichium".
• "Tractatus de globis coelesti et terrestri eorumque usu ac de novo recognitus multisq[ue] observationibus opportunè illustratus ac passim auctus, opera et studio Johannis Isacii Pontani...; adjicitur Breviarium totius orbis terrarum Petri Bertii... Excudebat W.H., impensis Ed. Forrest".

Do respond on the article's talk page. Thanks very much! — Cheers, JackLee 04:10, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Carmen Bavarorum

I intend to insert the following rhyming conversio sensum reddens (by myself) into Viki under an Article "Carmen Bavarorum" which should be linked to by the "Bavaria" article:

Deus tecum, Bavarorum

tellus, cara patria!

Tuos pagos, cor tuorum

benedicat dextera.

Servet agros ruris tui,

urbes, omnem viculum,

et colores caeli Sui,

candidum, caeruleum.

Deus nobis, Bavarorum

genti dignae patribus,

praestet pacis Suae lorum,

quo salutem struimus.

Cum Germanicis germanis

hoc sit propugnaculum

firmum ut vexillum fanis,

candidum, caeruleum.

lorum = Germanice: Riemen; and in English: lace, laces, belt or similar, a strong band

propugnaculum = Schutzweihr, defence, can be meant spiritually, e.g. there exists a catholic book about the church entitled by "propugnaculum ecclesiae".

My questions are related to the last verse:

1. Should we say "album" or "candidum" for "white"? In other words: Should "candidum, caeruleum" be replaced by "album et caeruleum", as I earler had? In the Vulgata bible I found "nubem candidam" because it is related to God sun coming on a cloud. Now it is God's heaven. On the other hand, the heaven most looks "album and candidum".

Albus is 'dead-white, flat white' (shading into merely 'pale'), the opposite of ater; candidus is 'shining white', the opposite of niger. Whichever the original implies, the potential alliteration in /k/ (candidum, caeruleum) makes it a no-brainer here. IacobusAmor 22:05, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, JoacobusAmor, from literary and poetic point of view, I also think that candidum is better, in particular because of the rhyme. The tune gives a strong tone on the third and seventh syllable, and these are rhyming.--141.40.101.124 14:54, 12 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

2. Is it clear that the last verse of strophe 2 "candidum, caeruleum" means that the flag (vexillum) is white and blue, i.e. white-blue. Or is it possible that two flags could be meant, a white one and a blue one or even that the propugnaculum is white and blue. Should we omit the comma after fanis? Can we write candidum-caeruleum (i.e. hyphenated writing) after having omitted the comma after "fanis"?--Bachmai 21:32, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Vandals to be blocked

1. usor:A A A A A A A A A A A ‎
2. usor:Wiki must die
3. usor:Deletionist shit holes
4. usor:Norman Rogers bites himself
5. usor:I am Norman Rogers on wheels
6. usor:We hate wikis

Harrissimo 00:35, 12 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

All willy's accounts are blocked now, thanks--Nick1915 00:39, 12 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

You are the one who needs thanking - well done! Harrissimo 00:41, 12 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Nomina

I would just like to clarify something. Are we to use the rules listed on Vicipaedia:Translatio nominum propriorum? Because if so, there is a lot of work to be done with names of famous people (I am referring to latinized surnames, such as Washingtonius for George Washington). Obviously, this is a very controversial subject (for some reason that I do not understand), but I believe that unless Vicipaedia is going to have a certain select class of contributors (id est, people who have studied Latin for the past decade or so), the rules of this simple translation process must be determined and prominently displayed somewhere most new or inexperienced can find them and understand them. Otherwise, I fear that Latin's popularity runs the risk of continuing to be unpopular. -Sapiens23 13:47, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Yes we go by those rules. Washingtonius is attested in the 17th cent. literature so no change is required. Just google and you will see.--Rafaelgarcia 15:21, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I don't see what's so complicated about looking up names in the sources listed. The link is on our front page, thus I don't ee how much more accessible can we possibly make it.When in doubt just use the unlatined names and treat as indeclinable.--Rafaelgarcia 15:32, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Gratias tibi ago. -Sapiens23

"Taberna vetera" vel "Taberna vetus" (Title changed)

In the lexicon I find "taberna, -ae, femininum". So the old tabernas should be called "Tabernae veteres" or in the singular "Taberna vetus". But perhaps there really exists the terminus "tabernum"? --141.40.101.124 19:01, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Now I have an idea: It seems this means: Taberna "vetera", i.e. Taberna with the topic "vetera". Is this correct?--141.40.101.124 19:01, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Ah I get your question; vetera is the feminine version of the adjective veter/vetera/veterum. This adjective is an alternative version of vetus, which doesn't change with grammatical gender. Thus Taberna vetera = Taberna vetus or plural Tabernae veterae = Tabernae veteres. --Rafaelgarcia 19:26, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Rafaelgarcia; there are often the same adjectiva with different endings, e.g. caeles instead of caelestis,-e or perpes instead of perpetuus,-a,-um. But I did not find "veter,-a,-um" instead of vetus in my online lexica, so I did not think of this idea. I will, when I have time, look in better lexica. I think the redaction chose "vetera" instead of "vetus" because of a better iambic sound of "Taberna vetera".--141.40.101.124 20:52, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC) (User Bachmai)

As far as I can see, there is a total of two attestations for veter:

(i) Ennius Ann. 1.14: Quom veter occubuit Priamus sub morte Pelasgo

(ii) Accius fr. 481 (Hecuba): Veter fatorum terminus sic iusserat

Both are simultaneously poetic and archaic, so not really a model for prose. Shouldn't we own up to Taberna vetera having been a careless mistake for Taberna vetus and proceed to rename it?--Ceylon 21:36, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Ceylon was a bit ahead of me, but anyways: "Veter" is attested only in archaic Latin epic poetry. It died out in classical Latin, where "vetus" and "vetustus" are in use. "Veter" is clearly a back-formation from the archaic comparative form "veterior", which isn't favoured by classical authors either, who prefer "vetustior". In the nominative singular, "vetus" exhibits the same form in all genders, because it's originally a noun denoting a long time (its etymological cognate being Greek "étos" 'year' < "wetos"). I don't think a feminine ^?"vetera" is attested at all. Re "taberna vetera", the question raised by Bachmai is a good one. I'm not sure what it's supposed to be. Taberna with the topic "vetera" mercifully suggested by Bachmai makes sense (and I do hope "vetera" isn't supposed to be a feminine form; if it is, it'd better be corrected). --Neander 22:10, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I'd be OK with changing the name, I suppose the original intention doesn't matter that much. All you want to say is that this is an archive of old Taberna discussions: archivum disptuationum veterum Tabernalum? Disputationes veteres Tabernales?--Rafaelgarcia 22:17, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

It is not the poetry that made "veter" necessary, "vetus" would be suited as well, as far as the measure is concerned. Both vowels "e" and "e" or "e" and "u" are short. So it simply seems that "veter" is the archaic form of "vetus".

Ennius writes Hexameter. What is Accius' measure? --Bachmai 22:21, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Yes, metrically "vetus" and "veter" seem interchangeable. But poetry favours impromptu formations; "veter", I take it, is of that ilk. Accius wrote Saturnian verses, the structure of which is a matter of much controversy. --Neander 22:59, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Actually Accius didn't write Saturnian verses. The line quoted by Ceylon is a clear example of a Senarius, the Latin variant of the Greek Iambic trimeter. However, here too, like in the hexameter example 'veter' is metrically equivalent to 'vetus', so the reason for its use must be other than metrical. --Fabullus 12:07, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Ääsh! You're right, Fabulle, for some curious reason I always mix up Accius and Livius Andronicus. Pudore rubens Neander 19:37, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Noli pudore affici, equidem iam saepius maiora peccavi. Ceterum, Finnicumne est illud Ääsh?

Potius Svecicum [äsh!], nam Finnice proprie [äh!] vel [ääh!] dicitur. Interiectionaliter salutans Neander 18:39, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Fabulle, I also though of the Iambic trimeter

| x – υ – | x – υ – | x – υ – | (where the last syllable can always be used as a long one),

but I have problems with the syllable "fa" of "fatorum". The metrization of "Veter fatorum terminus sic iusserat" gives

| υ – – – | – – υ – | – – υ – |,

which differs at the third syllable, "fa", which is clearly long (cf. Aeneis(1,262): longius et volvens fator[um] arcana movebo). --Bachmai 14:15, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

This is quite a different subject, but you are right about the metrization of the line. This is why I didn't call it an iambic trimeter, but a senarius. The archaic Latin dramatists (Plautus, Terence, Ennius, Pacuvius and Accius) did not observe all the rules of the Greek trimeter, but used a somewhat freer form, the senarius (from seni (pedes): each line having six feet), which can be schematized as follows (leaving aside as you did, the possibility of substituting two short syllables for each long one):

| x – | x – | x – | x – | x – | υ – |

You will see that Accius' line fits this pattern perfectly well. --Fabullus 14:38, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, now much becomes clear to me. The Romans count the feet (sex pedes), not the metra. The metrum can actually be described by one foot only (except for the last foot), so a Latin metrum actually consists of one foot, but, to be in accordance with the Greec metrum, they do not define a single foot as a metrum. So I think that Quaternarii that only follow the free measure | x – | x – | x – | υ – | but not the strong measure | x – υ – | x – υ – | should also exist. I do not know any. Many famous church hymns are quaternarii in the strong sense of a jambic dimeter (e.g. Veni Creator, Vexilla regis). Would be interesting if you knew an example of a quaternarius that is not a strong jambic dimeter.--Bachmai 15:12, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I don't know of any archaic Latin author writing quaternarii, and from the classical period onwards the Romans tend to use the stricter Greek metre. (Only Phaedrus still uses the old Roman-type senarius.) The quaternarii that I have come across are all classical and post-classical and all appear to conform to the rules of the Greek iambic dimeter. --Fabullus 14:59, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Neander. I looked in the Georges lexicon. The adjective form "veter, -eris" shows that it follows the consonantic declination, so it seems that the female form is either again "veter" or perhaps "veteris" (following celer, celeris, celere), but not "vetera". Concerning the name, I would suggest not to change too much. Since Neander favorites my interpretation Taberna with the topic "vetera", I think the title Taberna vetera continens would be clear without any changing, having only an addition that makes of the alleged femininum singular nominative a neutrum plural accussative. --Bachmai 11:42, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Arguably vetus would not be the most suitable equivalent of previous anyway, since it places more emphasis on the contents being old or ancient than just past. What about Tabernae tomi priores or pristini (or conceivably Tabernae acta priora / pristina if the imagery of a tavern is to be kept)?--Ceylon 13:35, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Tabernae acta priora sounds the nicest of all the choices offered thus far.--Rafaelgarcia 14:03, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Yes, all the latter name suggestions are better.--Bachmai 14:15, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Time to change that category? Harrissimo 14:29, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

If everyone agrees to the change, I am willing to do it.--Rafaelgarcia 14:44, 14 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Concerning the sound, I would prefer the adjective (as earlier mentioned by Rafaelgarcia) instead of the substantive in the genitive, ergo: Tabernalia acta priora might still sound a little better since every word ends with "a".--Bachmai 12:30, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

(One hour later): No. Let "Tabernae acta priora" unchanged. It is shorter and has a jambic rhythm. It is indeed a good choice. --Bachmai 12:30, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

How does "Tabernae acta priora" (v-(-)-vv-v) make an iambic rhythm? --Fabullus 14:59, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Sorry: Yes, the "o" in "priora" is long. Sorry. We would have gotten anapaistoi in metrico tonorum when writing "Tabernalia...". without elidating vowels as usual in that metrics. An important point I want to mention is that I thought of the metrum tonorum, respecting accents instead of short and long. This way of poetry has been written in the medium aevum, e.g. Thomas of Aquin. And it should not be considered as a stupid one, as has been done during the time of humanistic Latin. These people wanted to completely get back to the classical Latin and its complicated use, many ACI instead of "quod" and many ablativi absoluti and so on. The consequence was that people ceased to write in Latin - Latin died out. Therefore both ways of poetry have their dignity. The antique one because of its nice language and its (in our ears) curious way of poetry, but also the Latin in the metrics of accents, in which we really recitate the poems. We are no longer able to speak the Latin 2000 years ago. Do you know the pronounciation of "-am, -em, -im, -um" at the end of a word? Is it necessary to apply the elimination rules also in prosa texts? Can you recitate a Latin poem so that you feel the rhythm. To emphasize in hexameters every first syllable, as we use to do it, might sound funny in the ears of people who spoke this Latin 2000 years ago. --Bachmai ca. 17:45, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Why should that matter for a category name anyway!? Harrissimo 15:36, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Mute|mus vete|ris nunc |nomen, a|mice, Ta|bernae!--Ceylon 16:42, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Nice hexameter! "veteris", which ends the first part of the verse, is completed at the end of the second part.--Bachmai 17:51, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Muta|tum (e)st vete|ris nunc |nomen, a|mice, Ta|bernae!--Bachmai 18:11, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

For the record: The problem was pointed out quite some time ago. --UV 19:31, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

copied from Disputatio Categoriae:Taberna vetera:

Aut taberna vetus aut tabernae veterae. --Alex1011 07:01, 11 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

Mihi quoque haec verba molesta erant: aut taberna vetus aut tabernae veteres! Montivagus 07:11, 11 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

Ita vetus --Alex1011 07:32, 11 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

wiki/vici/wikipedia/vicipaedia

Ugh...

Now we have Vicipaedia redirecting to Wikipedia and Wiki redirecting to Vici...

I suggest:

• Wikipedia be about Wikipedia in general, that is the project operated by Wikimedia.
  • Vicipaedia will redirect to Wikipedia
• Vicipaedia Latina will be about our wikipedia
• Wiki will be about the software/platform/engine
  • Vici will redirect to it

Thoughts? Emendations? --Ioscius ^(disp) 17:32, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I agree with all of the above. We don't even have a page yet about Vicipaedia Latina (just Historia Vicipaediae Latinae) which is quite shocking. Harrissimo 17:57, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

It would probably be sensible to move Vicimedia to Wikimedia too. Harrissimo 18:07, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Isn't the case that Vicipaedia = Wikipaedia Latina? Or alternatively, for consistency's sake, shouldn't Wikipaedia and Vicipaedia be provided as synonyms to Wikipedia?--Rafaelgarcia 21:00, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

When have we ever used Wikipaedia? Harrissimo 21:11, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Credidi Vicipaediam esse Vicipaediam et Wikipediam esse Wikipediam! IacobusAmor 21:16, 15 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Ergo habemusne:

Vicipaedia = versio latina Wikipediae

Wikipedia = versio anglica Wikpediae

Wikipedia = omnes versiones Wikipediae ?

National park

I have wanted to write this many a time on Vicipaedia but no dictionaries I look in have it. I avoided the obvious and horrible parcus nationalis, settling with tellus conservanda as a coining but sadly fingere malum est. Does anybody know of a better way to say it? Maybe Traupman? Harrissimo 18:36, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

If a (city) park is a hortus (urbanus), we might take a state park to be a hortus civitatis ~ reipublicae and a U.S. national park to be a hortus foederalis, except of course that hortus is probably more like a 'pleasure-garden' than the kind of wilderness included in many state & national parks. Cassell's says Pliny used vivarium for 'preserve'. For 'park', Ainsworth gives only vivarium. IacobusAmor 18:48, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I just came across consaeptum in Morgan. That looks good too. Which adjective would best fit 'national'? (I understand nationalis is very late latin). Harrissimo 18:55, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Saltus publicus or saltus custoditus or saltus publicae custodiae commissus?--Ceylon 18:56, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

That might work for parks that are essentially mountain defiles, with associated plains, waterfalls, and other such wildernessy terrain (like Yellowstone National Park), but what about national parks that are small islands (Alcatraz National Park) or are under water (Buck Island Reef National Monument)? Oh well. IacobusAmor 19:08, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

L&S says "Saeptum venationis, a park, warren, preserve, enclosed hunting-ground, Varr. R. R. 3, 12, 2; cf. the context.--". Varro's exact words were: "in Gallia vero transalpina T. Pompeius tantum saeptum venationis, ut circiter passum locum inclusum habeat." Harrissimo 19:01, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

I'm sure most of the national parks discourage venatio but that's still got to have some standing (at least the saeptum bit). Harrissimo 19:03, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

A saeptum is apparently a barrier or a wall, hence an enclosure, and in the plural was a voting booth. I suppose national parks count as enclosures of some sort. Certainly forms of venatio can be omitted! IacobusAmor 19:12, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

= Saeptum publicum then, I guess. Thank you, Harrissimo 19:17, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Hortus (sing) means garden, while horti (pl) and viridarium are given by Traupman for park in the usual sense of tree-garden. For a national park like Yellowstone Saltus sounds nice. Vivarium means a game or wild preserve. There is also Ager meaning field, land, estate, park, territory...which is more neutral in meaning and may describe many city parks more aptly: in New York Battery Park (the central attraction being trees and views) may be rendered as Viridarium Battery, Central Park (having many athletic fields and paths in addition to trees) may be rendered Ager Centralis; and Yellowstone National Park (having many animals, being wild and also being extensive) as Saltus Nationalis Yellowstone. Nationalis though later latin is used nowadays to mean national which here is not the same as publicus but closer to publicae custodiae.--Rafaelgarcia 19:20, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me that a state park or a national park wants to have the same term in Latin, whether it's a desert, a lush valley, a treeless mountain, or a coral reef. Saeptum or consaeptum could be close, since most of these parks are enclosures of some sort. Saltus doesn't fit small islands, beaches, and reefs; nor does ager. A viridarium is a green place, hence a pleasure-garden; applying it to the desert of Death Valley National Park would be a stretch. ¶ For 'national', Ceylon's publicus could be apt. IacobusAmor 22:26, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I agree with either Saeptum or Consaeptum as OK as a general term for all kinds of "park" but I am concerned about losing the distinction between state and national park. Why the need to avoid nationalis? foederalis? urbanus? privatus? if we have the terms why not use them?--Rafaelgarcia 23:36, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Saeptum seems nice enough for park, the only slight concern being that saepta used to be rather small enclosures (more the size of a public garden or a zoo than of an average national park). That's why I thought saltus might suit, although I agree that it bears the connotation of trees, and to a lesser extent, hills. I wonder, however, whether national parks without some proportion of woodland would be a negligible quantity. Buck Island Reef is termed a natural monument, so doesn't really need to be included. I wouldn't have qualms about calling the surface of an island either saltus or saeptum.

The usual urban park should remain hortus (Hortus Centralis, Hortus Luxemburgi &c.).--Ceylon 23:49, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Re: "Buck Island Reef is termed a natural monument, so doesn't really need to be included."—Except that it's managed by the National Park Service, which lists it among the U.S. national parks. ¶ For an undoubted underwater park, consider the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, managed by Australia. A marine park further challenges our attempt to find a single word for these parks! ¶ As for "losing the distinction between state and national park," Vicipaedia is pretty much committed to using civitas for 'state', and that word can suffice for any of several kinds of state, including U.S. states and national states (like France & Nauru); for a more complex entity (as with the USA and the old USSR), perhaps foedus 'federation' works. So then we'll have X civitatis and X foederis, where X is the word for 'park'. Some people might argue that necessity requires Vicipaedia to accept natio in the latter sense, Caesar's spinning in his grave notwithstanding. IacobusAmor 02:32, 17 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but the use of park for the Great Barrier Reef doesn't come natural to the English term either, but works by way of metaphor. What we are looking for is a way of saying a bounded area of land, usually in its natural or semi-natural (landscaped) state and set aside for some purpose, usually to do with recreation, and then transfer it by analogy to national parks and the like. Since the English Wikipedia continues: The first parks were land set aside for hunting by the aristocracy in medieval times. They would have walls or thick hedges around them to keep game in and other people out., saeptum looks like a good choice. ¶ As for the national bit, I take it to denote that the park is administered by a public authority (whether municipality, state, federation, or otherwise), rather than being associated with the nation as such (as in national anthem). Nationalis is so late that it might be a good idea to limit it to the latter case.--Ceylon 08:23, 17 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Praemia

In translating the names of various awards into Latin I have seen three different methods in the Vikipaedia. The first has the name of the award following praemium in the genitive (e.g. Praemium Academiae); the second has the name of the award as a neuter adjective (e.g. Praemium Nobelianum); the third leaves the name of the award unchanged and indeclinable (e.g. Praemium Grammy). Now of the relevant pages those for the Academy Awards and the Grammys are flagged for their poor Latin and I don't much like the third construction anyway. So to put it to the Taberna at large: which of these constructions are preferred? Dsprag 23:09, 16 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

On the basis of "Populus Romanus (never Romae). The people of Rome" (Bradley's Arnold, #58) and "Sullani milites . . . the soldiers of Sulla" (#289), one might favor the second listed form, Praemium Nobelianum. Maybe Grammy could be considered an indeclinable adjective, but since it's slang (presumably from the gram of gramophone or phonogram), maybe it could generate a regular adjective, to produce the phrase Praemium Grammium. IacobusAmor 02:47, 17 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Yes, type 1 is un-idiomatic, therefore deprecated. Type 2 is perfect, but will not always be possible if we have no source for a suitable Latin adjective. Type 3 would be our fall-back position: it is what we have to do (I guess) if there is no suitable Latin adjective.

For Academy Awards, maybe we ought to consider Praemium Academicum? Andrew Dalby 18:54, 17 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Locally uploaded images: status report and question

You may have noticed that my activities in the last days mostly dealt with (locally uploaded) images. Let me give you a brief status report on locally uploaded images in Vicipaedia.

According to the data available at [2], 13810 distinct images (or sound files – I will use the term "images" throughout) were in use on the Latin vicipaedia as of the beginning of February this year (images that were used on more than one page were counted only once). Of these 13810 images, only 192 (or 1.39%) were locally uploaded images (= images uploaded to la.wikipedia), the huge rest came from commons. In addition to these 192 local images in use, there were 21 unused local images, which made the total of 213 locally uploaded images. (Commons:, as of this writing, has 2 473 579 media files.)

The Wikimedia Foundation, the nonprofit charitable organization that hosts and operates the wikipedias, commons and some other projects, is concerned about creating free content as in the Definition of Free Cultural Works (http://freedomdefined.org/Definition). This means, inter alia, that everyone may use, modify and redistribute wikipedia content. This, in turn, requires that wikipedia (ideally) contains no copyright-restricted content, or at least contains only a very limited and easily identifiable amount of copyright-restricted content. This specially affects uploaded images.

For these reasons, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees passed its wikimedia:Resolution:Licensing policy some time ago. This resolution requires that by March 23, 2008, all wikimedia projects must contain only free content such as is eligible for commons (so why not store such content on commons anyway?) or a very restricted amount of nonfree but "exempted" content pursuant to the terms of this resolution.

As March 23, 2008 is approaching, I looked through the 213 locally uploaded images. In roughly half of the cases I was able to locate the same image on commons or to identify it as "free" and move it to commons. In the other about half of the cases, permission to use the image was doubtful or (in quite a number of cases) it was quite obvious that there was no such permission and I deleted these images.

The wikimedia:Resolution:Licensing policy gives us the limited possibility to draw up an "Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP)" for nonfree images that are so important to us that we want to use them nevertheless. Taking into account that we are working an encyclopedia in the Latin language (not a Roman encyclopedia, Ancient Topics encyclopedia or Catholic encyclopedia, but an encyclopedia written in Latin) I found (and temporarily spared from deletion) five images that we might want to keep although they are not free content:

• Logo of Septentrionale Americanum Latinitatis Vivae Institutum
  Logo of Septentrionale Americanum Latinitatis Vivae Institutum
• cover of a Latin book, Ecce Romani
  cover of a Latin book, Ecce Romani
• cover of a Latin book, Cattus Petasatus
  cover of a Latin book, Cattus Petasatus
• cover of a Latin book, Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis
  cover of a Latin book, Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis
• Stephanus Berard (possibly there is a freely licensed image available somewhere so that it can replace this one? --UV 11:20, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC))
  Stephanus Berard (possibly there is a freely licensed image available somewhere so that it can replace this one? --UV 11:20, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC))

Do we want to develop an EDP to cover these images? If yes, I would propose the following:

Nonfree content may be used on the Latin vicipaedia where such content satisfies both of the following conditions:

• The content satisfies all requirements for non-free content as set (and subsequently amended) by the English wikipedia, including but not limited to the requirements stated on the page en:Wikipedia:Non-free content.
• The content has special value for an encyclopedia written in the Latin language (compared to encyclopedias written in any other language).

Note that I do not encourage uploading nonfree images, and note that the requirements of wikimedia:Resolution:Licensing policy and of the English wikipedia are very strict (writing a good "fair use rationale" isn't fun). Do we want to open up this way (which means more housekeeping work) or shall we stick to free content only?

--UV 00:37, 18 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Governorate/Gobernación

Quomodo possum verbum anglicum Governorate - vel verbum hispanicum Gobernación - ad Latinitatem traducere? (How can I translate Governorate (english) or Gubernación (spanish) to Latin?)--Le K-li 01:51, 18 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Governorate is an english word. In the dictionary I find the following synonyms: Gubernatio (steering, governing/gobernacion, direccion) Rectio (ruling/gobernacion) Administratio (management/administracion) Regimen (regime/regimen); looking at the RAE definitions for

• "Gobernacion: Acción y efecto de gobernar o gobernarse." I would think that you would want "gubernatio" but

but if it is in the sense of

• "Ministerio de la Gobernación" at the RAE, "El que tenía a su cargo los ramos de administración local, y demás concernientes al orden interior del Estado." then I think you want "administratio publica".--Rafaelgarcia 04:20, 18 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Usores Novi

It seems there are a lot of new users, but the vast majority don't contribute anything as far as I can tell. Is that usual among the Wikipedias or is it peculiar to ours?--Rafaelgarcia 01:17, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I think that this is not too unusual. Quite a number of users just want to register their username so to avoid that there are two different users using apparently the same name on different wikis. --UV 11:19, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Bot Status for Purbo T

Salve. Requesto bot flag for Purbo T (contributiones)

• Operator: Purodha = ksh:Medmaacher:Purodha
• Functio: interwiki link maintenance
• Operatio: manually-assisted, occasionally in automatic or autonomous mode, starting mostly from the Wikipedia of Ripuarian languages
• Software: pywikipediabot framework updated daily from svn
• Already has bot flag on: aa, ak, am, ar, bar, be-x-old, bn, bo, bug, bxr, cbk-zam, cdo, chy, co, crh, cs, da, de, dsb, dz, ee,el, eo, fa, ff, fi, fiu-vro, fj, fr, gv, ha, hr, hsb, ht, ig, is, ja, kn, jbo, ki, ksh, ku, kv, lb, lbe, lg, li, lmo, lo,lt, mh, ml, mr, nds, nds-nl, ne, new, ng, nl, nn, nov, om, ny, or, os, pa, pms, rn, sg, scn, sco, simple, sl, sn, stq, sv, tg, th, ti, tn, to, ts, tum, tw, ty, vec, uk, ur, vi, vls, vo, yi, za, zea, zh-classical, more pending.
• Generally, there is cumulated data on the bot (sorry, due to current technical problems at the toolserver, the data is partially not up to date, and may be inaccessible for short periods of time)

Gracie! --Purodha Blissenbach 02:04, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I requested our grapheocrates to give bot status to Usor:Idioma-bot and Usor:Purbo T. --UV 11:17, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much! --Purodha Blissenbach 16:26, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC)