Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium 28

Nuntius acerbus ex Finnia adlatus

Decretum est de emittendis Nuntiis Latinis desistere (https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2017/11/23/yles-nuntii-latini-to-be-broadcast-for-the-last-time-in-late-december). Quod probrum claudis debilibusque argumentis fultum Radiophoniae Finnicae Generali dedecori et flagitio est. Quid facere poterimus hoc in loco confragoso? Equidem suaserim quam plurimos nostrum ad productorem exsecutivum (cuius inscriptionem in nuntio citato invenies) litteras electronicas mittere, ne funera silentiosa fiant. Nam constat Finnorum permagni interesse, quo animo ab alienigenis iudicentur. Etiam petitio continuandorum Nuntiorum Latinorum facta est (sed Finnice) (https://www.adressit.com/ylen_latinankielisen_viikkokatsauksen_nuntii_latini_on_jatkuttava), quae vesperascente die iam 801 subscriptores ex omni orbe terrarum habet. Neander (disputatio) 22:24, 27 Novembris 2017 (UTC)

Plus 3300 petitionibus, ne deleantur Nuntii Latini, undique ex orbe terrarum factis Radiophonia Generalis Finnica prorogationem unius saltem anni concessit. Neander (disputatio) 05:56, 30 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Nexus ad Radiophoniae Finnicae situm cum nuntio permissūs: Finis transmissioni Latinae imminebat. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 13:02, 30 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

"Dinosaurium exstinctiones": forma?

Nonne forma "dinosauriorum" (potius quam dinosaurium") usurpari debet? Pernimius (disputatio) 19:56, 1 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Bona quaestio! De declinatione huius nominis (aliorumque nominum superordinum Linnaeanorum) incertus sum. Apud Dinosauria genetivum -iorum proponimus, sed quo fonte? Quid dicunt alii? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:07, 2 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

A vocabulo graeco σαῦρος (lizard) tractum est latinum saurus: hapax legomenon ut videtur in fragmento quodam Laevii poetae, ubi forma sauri legitur. Ergo declinandum esse puto sicut substantiva classis -us,-i (e. g. equus): dinosaurus, i. Sed zoologicae terminologiae ego quidem ignarus sum. --Bavarese (disputatio) 14:58, 4 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Recte dicis, mi Bavarese, sed hic non de nomine seu generico seu communi "dinosaurus" quaeritur, sed de nomine a biologis rite constituto superordinis "Dinosauria". Verbum neutrum plurale est aut declinationis secundae (-iorum) aut tertiae (-ium)! Fontes paucos ambiguosque apud Google reperio. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:31, 4 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Si zoologia exemplar botanicum sequitur, nomina nonnullorum ordinum et subordinum et cladorum erunt adiectiva declinationis tertiae ad nomen animalia (contra plantas) adhibita. Ergo, Reptilia = animalia reptilia (Anglice 'crawling animals') et fortasse Dinosauria = animalia dinosauria ('fearful-lizardlike animals'). Ergo, genetivus pluralis erit [animalium] dinosaurium. Sed res anceps est, manifeste enormis et inaequalis, formamque singularem nescio: unum dinosaure? Absurdum videtur, ut unum dinosaurum sit, et verum quidem nomen unus dinosaurus ubique fit. Male accidit quod explicationem nostrae quaestionis hic ut videtur non invenimus: International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:31, 4 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Bene et recte! In arva philosophiae linguarum advenimus. Nam nomine generali (ut dinosauria), excogitato vel, ut supra ab Andrea nostro dictum est, 'a biologis rite constituto' semper omnia talia, numquam autem unum et singulum exprimere possumus; nam ad nihil aliud inventum est. Itaque, si nomen uniuscuiusque singuli investigamus, id non de nomine generali deduci poterit. Num quisnam est, qui alio nomine ac - e. g. - tyrannosaurus rex utatur? --Bavarese (disputatio) 17:55, 4 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Latinitas dubia (Ovum Columbinum)

Salvete, o sodales! Gratiam vobis dicam, si certiorem me feceritis de hac re: In pagina Ovum Columbinum scripsi fieri non potuisse, quin quis Americam demum inventurus esset. Post dubitans mutavi in fieri non potuisse, quin quisquam Americam demum inventurus esset. Agitur de pronominibus: Quid hoc loco aptius vel vere Latinum est: quin (ali)quis aut quin quisquam? --Bavarese (disputatio) 12:50, 2 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Iurium? Iurum?

Vicipaediae sunt 463 exempla genetivi pluralis iurum et 18 iurium, sed apud L&S legimus verbum ius in pluralibus genetivi, dativi, ablativi formis non inventum esse. Ambae autem formae in interrete inveniuntur, exempli gratia iurium et iurum. Quid facere debemus? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:28, 10 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Gen pl. iurum apud Plautum (Epidicus 523) lego: prae illo, qui omnium / legum atque iurum fictor. --Bavarese (disputatio) 18:39, 10 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

"Iuribus" saepe in fontibus Latinis recentioribus reperimus. Tempore nostro multi systematibus iuridicis binis vel pluribus student (canonico + civili, Anglico + Romano, etc.). An propter hanc rationem opus est apud recentiores declinationum pluralium, Romanis antiquis (Plauto excepto) inutilium? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:01, 11 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

capitulatio

Spero me vobis non molestum esse iterum atque iterum de pura latinitate aliquid rogans. (Responsis doctior factus respondentibus gaudens gratias ago.) In nonnullis paginis lego vocabulum capitulatio eo sensu adhibitum ut in lingua latina cassica deditio. Sed nullum vocabulum latinum tractum de caput vel capitulum ullam praebet similitudinem cum ea re, quae nomine deditionis significatur. Estne capitulatio (sc. deditionem significans) vox vere latina? --Bavarese (disputatio) 20:36, 18 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Probe dicis, amice! Traupman Americanis dicit Anglicum capitulation esse Latinum deditio. Cassell's verbo capitulation caret, sed Britannos (et quidem omnes angloloquentes!) monet capitulate significare surrender, quod vicissim dicit esse dedere, tradere, (con)cedere. Ainsworth (saeculo 18) dicit a capitulation (quod nisi fallor significat 'instrumentum deditionis') esse pactio de urbe, vel arce, dedendâ. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 01:53, 19 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Medio aevo apud latine scribentes capitulatio fuit compositio praescriptorum divisa in singula capitula. (Cf. Capitulatio de partibus Saxonum MGH Capit. 1 (1883) pagg. 68-70). --Bavarese (disputatio) 14:11, 19 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Ergo si "capitulare, capitulatio" sensu "dedere, deditio" apud nos legis, Anglicismum esse videtur et emendare oportet. Hic sensus Anglice apud scriptores saeculi fere XVII ortus est. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:23, 19 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

An obsequium fortasse idoneum esset? Andreas Raether (disputatio) 17:10, 19 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

instrumenta translationis

Did you know we do not have an article corresponding to en:North yet? Si vis, lege Seven translation tools you can use to work in multiple languages across Wikimedia projects. --UV (disputatio) 23:22, 20 Decembris 2017 (UTC)

Not to mention (ut videtur) en:Albert, Prince Consort. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 04:05, 14 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

To want

Hello folks. As you know already, there are still a lot of Latin words left that we don't understand well, as modern humans have lost the touch of Latin. Translating Latin to you own mother tongue can also sometimes be confusing or lacking. However, I would like to know how you say "to want" in Latin. My mother tongue Swedish uses unfortunately 2 verbs together for this understanding; vilja ha (lit. to will to have), or in present tense vill ha (lit. will to have), or with e.g. I jag vill ha (lit. I will to have). "To want" is after all one single understanding, though it can be tricky to see that in other languages, such as Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, etc. As advanced and detailed as Latin is, shouldn't there be "to want"? Please help. Donatello (disputatio) 00:21, 23 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

The usual equivalent of English "to want" is volo, velle, volui. In other cases opto, cupio, or desidero might work. Is there a specific context you're thinking of? Lesgles (disputatio) 02:09, 23 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Don't forget egere, and even carere. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 05:06, 23 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Please check out glosbe.--Jondel (disputatio) 12:07, 23 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Donatello, I'm not sure that I understand your problem. A couple of sentences (Swedish or English) that you're uncertain how to translate might help. Neander (disputatio) 14:52, 23 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Furthermore, I wonder if the verb siderare, which I can't find anything about, means "to want". This verb can also be found in e.g. de-siderare and con-siderare, which you know already. So, in a sentence: if you say e.g. "I want bread", wouldn't it become exactly panis sidero? Donatello (disputatio) 23:14, 25 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

In the supposed panis sidero, even if siderare is a verb (and it's not found in Ainsworth's and L&S and White's and Cassell's and Traupman), panis is in the wrong case. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 05:16, 26 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

I agree with others that the verb "sidero" doesn't really exist, which would be why you can't find out anything about it! "Desidero" and "considero" derive from the noun "sidus" (constellation or star). But I also agree with others that we need to know the context of your question, otherwise we can't do much more than quote dictionaries, which you can consult anyway.

It's very nice to know you're still in contact, Donatello! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:44, 26 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

I see, thanks. Yes, I did suspect that siderare might not exist. Donatello (disputatio) 13:50, 26 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Iam existit, ut exemplum vel alio modo. Semper dicere possumus: ...verbum 'siderare', quod Donatello anno 2018 quaerebat... etc. Talpa~ruwiki (disputatio) 15:59, 26 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Well, siderari and sideratio refer to a disease (ἀστροβολία) produced by a sidus 'constellation', but from this, it's not too easy to understand the meanings of desiderare or considerare. A modest proposal for the etymology of these verbs was made by the present author long ago in Historische Sprachforschung 103 [1990] 51-68. The basic idea was to compare the -sid(er)- element with Greek ἰθύ- and Sanskrit sidh(yati), connecting considerare with 'hit(ting the target)' and desiderare wih 'miss(ing the mark)', respectively. Thus, desiderare would have signified 'to miss something' and then 'to desire sthing'. Neander (disputatio) 19:26, 26 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Nexum addo: Hits and Misses: Lat. considerare and desiderare Talpa~ruwiki (disputatio) 20:43, 26 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago, Neander. Verbum siderari non repperi; de etymologia a te proposita verborum con- et desiderare nihil scivi. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:38, 27 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

De rebus physicis asteroidum

In capsis asteroidum in Vicipaedia Latina saepe modi physici desunt (cf. e.g. 34 Circe). In Wikipedia Anglica autem hi modi inveniri possunt. Secundum sententiam in fonte: "Please don't try to edit them directly." non oportet haec data inserire. Cur? Bis-Taurinus (disputatio) 23:16, 25 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, fortasse error fuit? Exempli gratia, modo diametrum in 34 Circe secundum res iam datas inserui. Puto automaton haec corrigere posse. Solutio mundior, quae autem aliquantum laboris postulat, est formulam in capsam Formula:Capsa civitatis Vicidata similem convertere. Lesgles (disputatio) 23:38, 25 Ianuarii 2018 (UTC)

Stipula artis athletica?

Artium athleticarum creationem stipulae propriae, per exemplum {athletica-stipula}, propono. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 14:15, 3 Martii 2018 (UTC)

Formulam {{ludus-stipula}} in aliquibus paginis de artibus athleticis video; visne ludos athleticos ab aliis ludis separare? Hoc facile est factu. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 17:15, 3 Martii 2018 (UTC)

Gratias, A. Mahoney! Non animadverti. Andreas Raether (disputatio) 21:36, 3 Martii 2018 (UTC)

Galicia 15 - 15 Challenge

Wikipedia:Galicia 15 - 15 Challenge is a public writing competition which will improve improve and translate this list of 15 really important articles into as many languages as possible. Everybody can help in any language to collaborate on writing and/or translating articles related to Galicia. To participate you just need to sign up here. Thank you very much.--Breogan2008 (disputatio) 14:17, 12 Martii 2018 (UTC)

Roman graffiti

Salvete! I've tripped in a pretty big hole in the EN Wikipedia, and I'm sure some of you could help fill it. That is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_graffiti the page on Roman graffiti. There's really not much there. You can read plenty about the extant roman literature and all that on WP, but the graf--one of the few sources we have for ordinary Romans who weren't wearing purple etc--it's pretty light.

I'd happily add more if I knew more, and I'll this moment try to do some research, but meanwhile I thought this'd be a good place to bring it up.

Et salvete allem, es gibt kein Artikel "Roemische Graffiti" in DE! Ihre Hilfe, bitte, wir brauchen's...

2601:1C1:8100:900:8CA:15B1:ADFB:DF14 03:50, 24 Martii 2018 (UTC)

Twelve Apostles of Ireland

Salvete, amici! The Twelve Apostles of Ireland Challenge is an edition competition seeking to create and improve articles on the Twelve Apostles of Ireland. Anyone in any language can subscribe and collaborate on building or translating articles relating to the Twelve Apostles. Medals and real icons will be rewarded to the winners. To participate, one just needs to subscribe here and start collaborating. Dia Duit! Leefeni de Karik (disputatio) 19:32, 29 Martii 2018 (UTC)

Details of translation in EN wikipedia: Historia Augusta & Ars Amatoria

Hello, I'm wondering about a bit in the English Wikipedia entry for Augustan History. Quote:

"In fact... the History itself accuses Marius Maximus of being a producer of 'mythical history:' 'homo omnium verbosissimus, qui et mythistoricis se voluminibis implicavit (the most long-winded of men, who furthermore wrapped himself up in volumes of historical fiction'). The term mythistoricis occurs nowhere else in Latin {67}."

I'm sure I read here on the Taberna a discussion on the meaning of mythistoria that contradicted all this. But my Latin wasn't and isn't good enough to benefit from that discussion.

And another entry for Ars Amatoria: there's an entertainingly unencyclopedic 'content' section, and the 'reception' bit I found very helpful, but again a question of translation:

"Somewhat atypically for a Roman, the poet confesses, 'Odi concubitus, qui non utrumque resolvunt. Hoc est, cur pueri tangar amore minus' ('I abhor intercourse that does not relieve both. This is why I am not aroused by the love of young boys.')

I wonder if you'd agree this translation could use a little work.

Gratias 2601:1C1:8100:900:214B:B199:AB55:4832 16:36, 8 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

I'll offer a reply. I'm sure you'll hear from others too.

"Mythistoria" and the adjective "mythistoricus" appear once each in imperial Latin literature, but both occurrences are in this same text Historia Augusta (Macrinus 1; Firmus Saturninus 1). We use it here at Vicipaedia simply to mean fiction (fictional narrative, novel), and certainly we did discuss this, but a long time ago. Someone else may be able to find the discussion. It's richly ironic for the writer of Historia Augusta to attribute verbosity and the blending of fiction with history to another author.

As to verbosity, the author's contrast of Suetonius with Marius Maximus could be fair, for all I know: Suetonius is very concise. As to "mythistoricis se voluminibis implicavit", the words are verbose and unclear (to me): did Marius Maximus read these volumes or write them? Was the history in them mixed with pure invention, or with popular legend, or with myth? Is the contrast with Suetonius being carried on, or not? If it is, well, Suetonius wrapped himself up in books if any man ever did, but not in any kind of fiction. I wouldn't blame the translator you cite for falling back on a literal translation in quotes: it's hard to do better. "Romanticized/fictionalized history" is the best I could suggest to get the meaning of this passage. The other passage (Macrinus 1) is a similar attack on a predecessor, but this time, it is generally said, one who didn't really exist. I have Anthony Birley's translation of this passage (Penguin, 1976), and he again has 'mythical history' in quotes.

For the Ovid passage Peter Green's translation (Penguin, 1982) is "I hate it unless both lovers reach a climax. That's why I don't go much for boys." He in this translation aims at concision: he doesn't translate "concubitus" or "amore" but still gets the meaning across. The difference that stands out is "relieve" in the Wikipedia translation you quote versus "climax" in Green: "relieve" is very close to what Ovid says but might not be understood by all readers; whereas "climax" is clear, and is exactly what Ovid implies, but not exactly what he says. Translation's hard, isn't it? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:27, 8 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

For comparison, here are some more translations from the Loeb Classical Library. For the Historia Augusta, Jeffrey Henderson (1932): "But what of Marius Maximus, the wordiest man of all, who involved himself in pseudo-historical works?" and David Magie (1924): "By searching out all this sort of thing and recording it, he filled his books with gossip" (the emphases are mine). For Ovid, J. H. Mosley (1929): "I hate embraces which leave not each outworn; that is why a boy’s love appeals to me but little." This last translation seems overly obscure. Lesgles (disputatio) 00:01, 9 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

(1) In the lines from Ars amatoria, why is the English wiki using German commas to the left of qui and cur? (2) In the Latin words glossed as 'This is why I am not aroused by the love of young boys', Ovid does not say he's not thus aroused (he speaks of being less affected by it), and the boys are not young, and there's only one of them. A "literal" gloss of that line might be useful: 'This is why I'd be less touched by a boy's love'. (This tangar is either future indicative or present subjunctive, so it may be conveying something other than a simple fact, and the conditionality of 'I'd' may accommodate that effect.) This 'touched' may not be all that bad as it stands ('to touch', after all, is the basic sense of tangere), but if you want to venture out to the semantic suburbs, you can get to 'taken, carried off, struck, hit, affected, moved, impressed, aroused'. (3) Do any of the cited translations match Ovid's style? The plain speaking of 'climax' and 'aroused' might be smudging the cleverness of the Latin, but let's leave that question for those familiar with the context to judge. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:10, 9 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

De architectura

I have been thinking about building and construction for research, so I have been feeling inspired, and I would like to put forward the case for some re-shuffling on our pages on building terms, as begun in Disputatio:Caementum and then expanded in Usor:Xaverius/building. It all comes down to false-friends becasue caementa is the rubble, not the cement, which is misleading. Any comments welcome!--Xaverius 08:29, 23 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

Time to bring embedded maps (‘mapframe’) to most Wikipedias

Time to bring embedded maps (‘mapframe’) to most Wikipedias

Please help translate to your language

Mapframe is a feature that enables users to easily display interactive maps right on wiki pages. Currently, most Wikipedias don’t have mapframe. But fifteen Wikipedias, along with all the other Wikimedia projects, are using mapframe today to display maps on thousands of pages.

A little background: over the last few months, the Foundation’s Collaboration team has been working to improve the stability and user experience of the maps service. In addition, a question about long-term support for the maps service was recently settled, and a small team has been assigned for routine maintenance. Given these developments, bringing the benefits of mapframe to Wikipedias that lack the feature seems both safe and supportable. Nine Wikipedias that use a stricter version of Flagged Revisions will not get mapframe in this release.

Maps are a valuable form of visual data that can improve readers’ understanding across a wide range of topics. If you know of any reasons why mapframe shouldn’t be implemented on your Wikipedia, let us know on the project talk page. Unless we hear from you, we plan to release mapframe to most Wikipedias in May, 2018. So, if you foresee an issue, please let us hear from you. Otherwise, happy mapping!

CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 21:38, 24 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

I can see potential uses for this feature, so I'd like to encourage them to include Vicipaedia (it looks as if they will do so anyway, but no harm in responding). Does anyone disagree? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:36, 25 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

The only downside I can see is that the maps would probably include only English text, at least until a large amount of translation work is done, but I think the advantages would outweigh this (we already use a few foreign-language diagrams in our articles). Lesgles (disputatio) 17:42, 25 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

If we dare to add Latin names to Open Street Maps, then Latin would feature on our maps, if I understand correctly ... It would at least be worth testing that. Easier than creating whole Latin maps at Commons, possibly.

Or possibly not. I managed to correct two Latin names of villages, but when it came to my nearest town, after half an hour of effort I may only have managed to do it by deleting the Breton name (which was not my intention). This may make me unpopular in Brittany, but it would take another half hour to get back to the same editing screen and put matters right. I've seen snails move faster. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:33, 25 Aprilis 2018 (UTC)

Via Beale

I have just seen the new page on Beale street, but I am not sure via is best for an urban street? Out of vicus, strata, platea and via how could we distinguish (or can we) (and maybe there are more terms I can't think of now) between avenue, street, road, alley and other such terms of urban streets?--Xaverius 07:52, 3 Maii 2018 (UTC)

Martial translations on WP

Hey, I suck at Latin, but I'm back here again.

Wikiquote for Martial could do with a little love, I think: VII-30, as quoted, goes so:

"Barbarian hordes en masse you fvck ... And Jews, and soldiers, and their horses ..."

Very fun and bawdy and all that, but it seems awfully fast-and-loose as a translation, (as a lot of his are on wp) wouldn't you agree? I'd appreciate input from people who can understand the original text better than I. (Forgive me for being creative with the alphabet. You could imagine why I did.) Temerarius (disputatio) 01:23, 12 Maii 2018 (UTC)

Don't worry, we speak Latin here, we don't know any English rude words :) I don't know who is the translator of the piece you quote, but it appears recent. Since it is a complete poem, quoting it in full goes beyond fair use, and for that reason I am going to delete some of it from your edit. Anyone who wants can find the whole thing at en:q:Martial.

I translated this poem myself for Empire of Pleasures (2000: p. 211) as one of only a few sources claiming to specify the potential ethnic range of male sexual partners in classical Rome. The translation you quote is not impressive. In detail: the last two lines ought to be phrased as a question. I didn't think that the Sarmatian horse (as opposed to his Alan owner) would be an active participant, but one would have to ask Martial to be sure. The Jew would (of course) be circumcised and Martial says so. The Indian is said to be black (it's much more likely that an Indian from the south would turn up in Rome, so this is reasonable) while the Egyptian, though said to be from the city of the Pharos (Alexandria), also has the adjective "Memphitic", which possibly hints at blackness. The translation you quote doesn't name any of the specific nationalities that Martial lists except Jews, and this is one of its worst failures. The other is that it puts all the descriptors in the plural, whereas Martial has them all in the singular: thus the imagined woman becomes an improbably hard-working prostitute rather than an improbably wide-ranging courtesan. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:39, 12 Maii 2018 (UTC)

Nescius Magister

So I am unsure if this is where I should post this, but I am trying to teach some basic Latin and thought it might be a decent idea to commission my students to write articles for Vicipaedia since this cite lacks entries for most of their favorite media. Unfortunately there were three problems: I. My students hate revising their work once it's written; II. I'm far from any Virgil; III. I didn't realize how little I knew about making wiki posts.

I thought for this year that I should try making the posts myself and maybe next year worry about teaching the students how to do the same. Once posted though, I noticed all the articles were flagged for one reason or another. I do want to work on them in terms of formatting and proofreading them more to raise them up to community standards, but I also don't want them deleted as the messages posted seem to imply. If there is an issue of length, then I'll make sure any future project has the class tackling one topic.

Here are the articles I tried posting:

• Pulticula ex pomis terres tribus -mashed potatoes-
• Sayora -A character from Doki Doki Literature Club-
• Clarks Summit -A hometown-
• Gilmorae Puellae -Gilmore Girls-
• Doctor Who#Doctor Duodecimus -An update to the apparently inadequate description of the 12th Doctor-
• Bipolor_ Morbus -A page for Bipolor disorder-
• EXO (MUSICUS) -A page for EXO, a Korean pop band-

I do not defend their choices. Either way, I try proofreading for the basics of grammar, but if anyone wants to help improve them in ways I missed, especially in terms of style, it would be appreciated. As a teacher, I was conservative in what I told the students to change, so that I didn't inevitably write the article for them (and often they didn't make the changes). If someone updates the style or simply adds more, then I can show it to future students what the community would think of their work, so that they might take greater care. As I said, I'll try to figure out how to format and do citations especially as the summer break is approaching, but I would appreciate any explicit advice. It isn't like my Latin teacher taught me Latin internet and coding jargon. Someone has already pointed me in the direction of Harenarium for me to practice such things.

Thanks for writing: most teachers don't!

The nature of wikis is that those who can will try to improve a page, while if they don't think a page has the basics to survive they may delete it. To save your pages from this fate until they are ready to launch into the world, all that you or your students needed to do was to place the template {{In progressu}} at the top of each page. If they see that, other Wikipedians will leave it alone. But it seems you and your students want help from other Wikipedians: in that case you can use, instead, the template {{Succurre}}. And I think you now know this! With either template in place, the other templates that have been added at the top can be removed, and I've just done that on the pages you have listed.

We may want to change the pagename if we know it could be improved. Just as every plant and animal species has a Latin name, so also every disease has a Latin name (like many other scientific things). That's why I moved the page about bipolar disorder to "Psychosis bipolaris", because that is a short form of the official modern Latin name. But, if for any reason a page is moved, a redirect will guide the creator of the page to its new name, so nothing is lost!

The best way to learn about formatting is to go to any other page, open it in an edit window, see how it's been done, then close the edit window without saving and try to copy that method.

Feel free to ask more questions here. We will be happy to help. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:59, 28 Maii 2018 (UTC)

If they're not going to revise their work, you might as well send them home. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:58, 28 Maii 2018 (UTC)

For example, we see that Gilmore Girls "est seriem et cucurrit septum annos." This seriem is grammatically wrong, and septum is spelled wrong. Those are obvious errors, and a serious student won't be able to sleep until they're fixed. After that, three problems will remain: the word order is English, currere for '(of a TV program) to run' is English with a Latin accent, and linking with et rather than a relative pronoun is childish ("it's a series and it ran") . After we've fixed all of that and gotten down to est series quae septem annos emittebatur ("which was broadcast for seven years"; and yes, emissa est is fine too), we can begin to work on the definition. What kind of series is it? Why, it's a television series, series televisifica! Produced all over the world? No, it's particular to the USA, a series televisifica Americana. And what kind of program might it be? The English wikipedia says it's a "comedy-drama." Several solutions are possible, but a convenient one leads us to: est series televisifica Americana generis comoediae dramaticae ("it's an American television series of the dramatic comedy genre"). What fun! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:57, 28 Maii 2018 (UTC)

These texts are useful for showing many of the usual kinds of beginners' mistakes, especially the kind where English syntax is carried over into the Latin. One that's likely to recur with your next cycle of students is seen in Clarks Summit, in the phrase "prope Scranton, Pennsilvania." That's a familiar English idiom, but it doesn't work in Latin, since Pennsilvania isn't an appositive of Scranton. For this idiom, Vicipaedia so far exhibits at least three workarounds: a prepositional phrase (prope Scranton in Pennsilvania), a noun in the genitive (prope Scranton Pennsilvaniae), and an adjective, here necessarily in the accusative (prope Scranton Pennsilvaniensem). The students need to feel (so to speak) that Scranton after prope is in the accusative, even if it's spelled as in English. Its regular Latin form (as with most renderings of the English placename suffix -ton) would be Scrantonia, which already turns up in Vicipaedia a couple of times. That would give us, say, prope Scrantoniam Pennsilvaniae. But Vicipaedia encourages people to find & use attested Latin versions of proper names, rather than making them up. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:19, 28 Maii 2018 (UTC)

How outdated is our Vicipaedia:Porta_eruditionis? Didn't we use to have a harenarium linked to it where students wrote their pages? Maybe the Scriptorium is the place to go--Xaverius 09:30, 29 Maii 2018 (UTC)

The Porta Eruditionis was and could be a great resource. Its problem recently has been lack of tender loving care! Pages in the Scriptorium just waited for years, unread, unimproved. This is no one's fault, and it happens all over the Wiki world. Same with "Drafts" on the English Wikipedia: if you want to start a new page over there, don't ever put it in Draft space: it will hang there for ever. Hence I suggested solutions in mainspace, because people really read and give attention to pages in mainspace. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:58, 29 Maii 2018 (UTC)

De bellis numero cardinali distinctis

Videte, o amici, fontes quos lector anonymus in Disputatio:Primum Bellum Iudaicum adduxit et de nominibus talium paginarum iudicia date s.v.p.! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:41, 29 Maii 2018 (UTC)

Res est utrum dicatur "primum bellum Iudaicum" an potius "bellum Iudaicum primum". Quod sane ad omnia pertinet cetera talia. Ego quidem, quamquam consuevi dicere Latine "secundum bellum mundanum", nunc collectis his omnibus exemplis (nam sane ego sum qui collegeram) mentem mutabo dicamque bellum mundanum secundum.

De paginis mensium

Necesse nobis est novas paginas mensium eligere! Videte, s.v.p., Disputatio Vicipaediae:Pagina mensis#2018/2019. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:43, 31 Maii 2018 (UTC)

Index renominationum usorum

Sane intellego hunc esse indicem cuius rei? Renominationum. Renominationum quorum? Usorum. Tamen haec Latinitas vere est immanis, nam lingua Latina, quamquam sane et nomina substantiva et attributa nominalia habet fovetque, amat tamen attributa adiectivalia participiaque et utraque multo quidem omnibus aliis rebus magis. Subicio ergo hoc: "Index participum nominibus mutatis" aut "Index sociorum nominibus mutatis".

Coemeterium protestans

Legenti mihi Categoria:Sepulturae in Coemeterio Protestante vox Coemeterium protestans mihi paene ridiculum videtur. Dicta fortasse est de nomine thedesco Protestantischer Friedhof. Aptius esse puto nomen italianum cimetero dei acattolici latine verti ad verbum in coemeterium non-catholicorum (nam et areligiosi ut Gramsci'' et alii ibi sepulti sunt) vel coemeterium Protestantium. Nescio an categoriam mutare mihi liceat.--Bavarese (disputatio) 17:43, 11 Iunii 2018 (UTC)

Inter proposita tua melius mihi videtur "Coemeterium Protestantium". Etsi sensus idem sit, praefero nomen non negativum (!) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:36, 11 Iunii 2018 (UTC)

Categoriam ad Categoria:Sepulturae in Coemeterio Protestantium Romae movi. --UV (disputatio) 19:01, 24 Iunii 2018 (UTC)

Latinisation of Greek names and surnames

Salve! I am looking forward to learning how the Greek politician named 'Κυριάκος Μητσοτάκης' can be transliterated into Latin. --46.103.236.115 15:37, 13 Iunii 2018 (UTC)

Cyriacus would be stanrard in ancient Latin, modern latinisation might be Kyriakos. I'm not sure if Mitsotakes would be a fair latinisation. --Xaverius 16:38, 13 Iunii 2018 (UTC)

Vicipaedia uses the classical transliteration from Greek script to Latin, so on Vicipaedia Κυριάκος Μητσοτάκης will be Cyriacus Metsotaces. His father Constantinus Metsotaces already has an article. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:12, 13 Iunii 2018 (UTC)

War games

Yesterday's vandal altered about twenty-seven pages before being stopped. The alterations were then fixed by hand. Are the magistrates ready with a reset button, for use when the total is substantially higher?—say, more like twenty-seven thousand? I pointed this out years ago, but it's worth restating that a mechanism like Word's System Restore, whereby the entire enterprise can be restored to a status quo ante, would be a good backup to have. It might be hoped that such a thing has been developed by now and is ready for use. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 18:49, 30 Iulii 2018 (UTC)

I'd like to know about that tool if it exists (for use on other projects). There is Special:Nuke (mw:Extension:Nuke), but that only eliminates page creations, not modifications to current pages. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 16:54, 6 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Ubi est Historia Romana?

Novissimus Vicipaediae sum. Attonitus eram cum inopiam historia Romanae invenirem. Etiam elementa, ut omnia proelia Caesaris (Thapsus et alii) aut proelia Punica (Illipa et alii), funditus carent. Simul ac cetera, ut Alesia et Zama, quamquam res gravissimae, eis parvae paginae. Rogo utrum sit pagina, in qua exstantes Romanae historiae inscriptae sunt, quo ego et fortasse alii facilius paginas Romanae historiae statuant.

Investigare paginas categoriarum possis, ut Categoria:Historia antiqua, Categoria:Antiquae civitates, Categoria:Bella Romanorum, Categoria:Proelia Romanorum etc. Demetrius Talpa (disputatio) 23:59, 8 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Ita, necnon Categoria:Imperatores Romani. Paginas, quas non habemus, tu scribere potes! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:21, 9 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

unexpected Latin interface

Just for fun, I set up my browser's preferred language to Latin first, English after. This means that multi-lingual web sites will give me a Latin version, if they happen to have one. Few do. But I just went to the MBTA site (Boston-area public transit) to check on a schedule -- and, guess what, it supplied place names in Latin! (for example, "Bostonia, Massachusetta") The rest of the interface is English but I was pleasantly surprised to get a bit of Latin. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 16:26, 9 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Correction of my profile in Latin

Salve! İ want to add to my userpage a text about my knowledge of my languages in Latin, İ translated it but İ don’t know if iťs correct. Can you correct this text for me, please?

My Latin translation: / Translatio mea latine:

“

Catalana mea prima lingua est. C1 gradum linguæ Lusitanæ habeo. Linguas amo et disco per otium meum. B1 gradum linguæ Dacoromanicæ consecutus sum in universitate Lucentina. Nunc linguæ Russicæ studeo in officiali schola linguarum “Barcino-Drassanes”, ubi A2 gradum consecutus sum. Linguam İtalianam et linguam Occitanam scio, sed officialia diplomata non habeo vel curriculis non interfui, has linguas didici quia faciles sunt. Linguam Gallaicam didici in eodem modo sicut linguam İtalianam et linguam Occitanam, et etiam gallaicam amatricem habui. Linguam Anglicam et linguam Francogallicam in schola didici dum faciebam ESO, sed non permansi et hæ sunt linguæ quas peius loquor: Anglice multum legere possum (Babel-3), sed pæne locutam linguam Anglicam non intellego. İn eodem situ cum lingua Francogallica, sed cum simplici gradu (Babel-1). Et linguam Serbicam disco: primo, solus studebam illam, sed tunc privatas lectiones cœpi, ut magis discam.

”

An English version, if any sentence is confusing in my Latin translation:

“

My mother tongue is Catalan. İ have the C1 level of Portuguese. İ love languages, İ learn them during my free time. İ got the B1 of Romanian language at the University of Alicante. Now İ study Russian at the Official School of Languages Barcelona-Drassanes, where İ obtained the A2. İ know İtalian and Occitan, but İ have nothing official or have gone to any course, İ’ve learned them because they are easy. İ learned Galician language in the same way as İtalian and Occitan, and İ also dated a Galician girl. İ studied English and French at school doing ESO, but İ haven’t continued and they’re the ones İ have the worst: İ can read written English a lot (Babel-3), but the oral İ don’t understand anything. The same with French, but with a basic level (Babel-1). And İ’m learning Serbian language: at first İ studied it alone, but then İ started private lessons to learn more.

”

Gratias vobis! --Josep Maria Roca Peña (disputatio) 15:0, 18 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Your Latin is pretty good, your English too, if I may say so! (It's strange that you use the Turkish capital İ for the English capital I, but don't worry about it.) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:00, 18 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Prima lingua is fine for 'first language', though in Singapore it would mean 'English', since English is the primary (prima) language of instruction and government work. 'Mother tongue' proper—the language used in your childhood home, or the language of your ethnic group (whether you speak it well or not)—is patrius sermo. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:40, 18 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

So the sentence “Catalana lingua meus patrius sermo est” would be the most correct? --Josep Maria Roca Peña (disputatio) 16:48, 18 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Iacobus is right, and I would use "patrius sermo" in preference to "prima lingua". If this masculine expression seems inappropriate, I notice that the term "lingua materna" is also in use in Latin, as in this Roman Catholic reference book (see page 402 apud Google Books). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:53, 18 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

So how the whole sentence would be? --Josep Maria Roca Peña (disputatio) 18:6, 18 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Salve, your Latin is quite good, so that part of those changes I made to your text are rather stylistic (e.g., some changes in word order) than grammatical. I marked with block letters some of those loci I somehow tampered with.

Catalana mihi patria lingua est. Gradum C1 linguae Lusitanae habeo. Linguas amo et per otium disco. Gradum B1 linguæ Dacoromanicæ consecutus sum in universitate Lucentina. Nunc linguæ Russicæ studeo in officiali schola linguarum “Barcino-Drassanes”, ubi gradum A2 consecutus sum. Linguam İtalianam et linguam Occitanam scio, sed officialia diplomata non habeo nec curriculis interfui, nam has linguas didici quia faciles sunt. Linguam Gallaicam didici eodem modo quo linguam İtalianam et linguam Occitanam, et etiam Gallaicam amicam habui. Linguam Anglicam et linguam Francogallicam in schola didici dum faciebam ESO, sed non permansi. Quibus linguis peius loquor: Anglice bene legere possum (Babel-3), sed sermonem Anglicum parum intellego. İtidem lingua Francogallica, sed cum simpliciore gradu (Babel-1). Et linguam Serbicam disco: primo, solus studebam illam, sed tunc privatas lectiones coepi, ut magis discerem.

Please, notice also that the digraph æ is not in use in our Vicipaedia. If you have any questions about the changes I made feel free to ask. Vale, Neander (disputatio) 09:54, 19 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Quomodo paginam categoriae redirigo?

Paginam Categoria:Imperatores_Sinenses redirigere ad paginam Categoria:Imperatores Sinarum volo. In Vicipaedia Anglicia, uti en:Template:Category_redirect possum, autem formula correspondens non est. -- Mkpoli (disputatio) 10:07, 21 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Licet simpliciter redirigere, sicut alias paginas. Hoc casu id nuper feci. Redirectione facta, si HotCat utimur, automatice ad verum categoriae nomen dirigimur. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:36, 21 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Formula quam in Vicipaedia Anglica invenisti nexum redirigentem facit (id quod, ut dicit Andrew, facilius faci potest) et editorem certiorem facit aliam categoriam esse ad quam redirigere velit. Apud nos, quia pauciores categorias habemus quam apud WP Anglica, fortasse non opus est talis verificationis. Si necesse est categoriam redirigere, redirectionem ordinarium facere licet, ut opinor. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 12:28, 21 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Vobis gratias ago pro auxilis indiciisque. - Mkpoli (disputatio) 12:54, 21 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

MediaWiki (most important messages)

Hi, all. In the course of some gnome work I was doing elsewhere, I noticed that the MediaWiki (most important messages) group on translatewiki.net (link) is only 80% translated into Latin. Perhaps someone would take that on. Thanks! StevenJ81 (disputatio) 13:20, 21 Augusti 2018 (UTC)

Repeating request. (Note that a new project would not be approved until this is finished. And from working on LangCom, I hear complaints not infrequently that Latin shouldn't even have a project because it's an "historic" language. Now, no one should worry that there is any risk of the project getting deleted. But I'd just like to see things like this cleaned up appropriately, to give people less reason to complain. Thanks.)

Specifically notifying @Andrew Dalby, @Lesgles, @UV. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 17:16, 6 Septembris 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Steven. I've just been invited to speak about Vicipaedia at itWikiCon 2018 in November, and I shall be explaining, you can be sure, that Latin is much more than a historic language (though it is that too).

I must say I used not to have a high opinion of the policy-making on LangCom, but I feel confident it's all the better with its current membership :) One of its worst faults has been this dull insistence that all languages (even languages in which computer arcana have never yet been named) must be endowed wuth a full set of administrative messages in native speech, which must be continually revised because the MediaWiki environment is always changing, and revised under a new interface each time because the interface, too, is always changing. The time it all takes! I praise those who nobly continue to edit these messages, but to me finding the names of real things and writing articles about real things are more important. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:05, 6 Septembris 2018 (UTC)

If this seems intemperate, it could be because I was about to take part in a not-very-easy municipal council meeting :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:18, 7 Septembris 2018 (UTC)

NP. We've worked together long enough that it would take more than that to upset me.

I understand what you're telling me, and on the whole I don't entirely disagree. (I'm trying to make LangCom work a little better, myself. And I can certainly relate to preferring content creation, but I can't stand the atmosphere of enwiki.) Still, I can also see why LangCom feels there should be some effort made so that the interface should (mainly, and most of the time) be in the target language.

A couple of numbers: In the MediaWiki section of translatewiki: alone, there are > 33,000 messages. Ridiculous, of course. But of those, 762 are in the "most important messages" subgroup, and of those, 151 are untranslated, including ~27 "obsolete" ones that really probably only have to be checked and confirmed.)

The only thing I'm really requesting is if someone could tackle the 151. That's all. StevenJ81 (disputatio) 15:13, 7 Septembris 2018 (UTC)

Conversionis Cure Award (Wiki Project Med Fondation) quaestio

Amerem si vos conatum meum conversionis aspiciatis: Estne conversio ex Anglica in linguam Latinam recta? Gratias vobis ago! Andreas Raether (disputatio) 17:40, 2 Septembris 2018 (UTC)

Anglice

Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors!

please help translate this message into your local language via meta

The 2017 Cure Award

In 2017 you were one of the top ~250 medical editors across any language of Wikipedia. Thank you from Wiki Project Med Foundation for helping bring free, complete, accurate, up-to-date health information to the public. We really appreciate you and the vital work you do! Wiki Project Med Foundation is a user group whose mission is to improve our health content. Consider joining here, there are no associated costs.

Thanks again :-) -- Doc James along with the rest of the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation

Latine

Tibi gratias uno ~250 editoribus principalibus medicis agimus!

Te rogamus, ut iuves et convertas istud nuntium in propriam tuam linguam per meta.

Ecce Praemium Curandi 2017

Anno 2017 tute eras uno ex ~250 editoribus principalibus medicis trans quasque Vicipaediae linguas. Tibi gratias Wiki Project Med Foundation agimus propter tu ipse lubenter, complete, accurate, optume enim conlationes sanitarias atque subsidia publicitus offerebas. Nos profecto tibi et amplissimum operis tuis magni aestimamus! Wiki Project Med Foundation est grex usorum cum muneribus rationes sanitarias nostras emendatu. Respice ad haec et interes, si voles, sine sumptibus sociatis.

Gratias denuo agimus :-) -- Doc James cum cuncto grege apud Wiki Project Med Foundation

About the National Museum of Brazil fire.

Hello, I'd like to propose to all ie.wikipedia.org editors to translate the articles about the National Museum of Brazil and it's Fire with the "Comunicado" (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Comunicado_sobre_o_Museu_Nacional) into Latin. Thanks, Erick Soares3 (disputatio) 15:27, 6 Septembris 2018 (UTC)

ha

Verbum "ha" (ha, ha-) significat 'autem' ("de") a simplex verbum esse et fundamental pars mittatur in Occidentem Eurasian aliis verbis, quod vetus est, turpia de medio fiat semitico et Occidente iam loqui Eurasians (et Common). -Inowen (disputatio) 17:50, 7 Septembris 2018 (UTC)