Quantum redactiones paginae "Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium 18" differant

E Vicipaedia
Content deleted Content added
No edit summary
Linea 825: Linea 825:
::::: Dixi antiquos ablativo ''rete'' potius quam ''reti'' usos esse. Certam normam non habuisse videntur. Ego constructionem ''in interreti'' non repudio, sed si ''in interrete'' scriptum esse videam, corrigere non audeam. [[Usor:Neander|Neander]] 06:19, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)
::::: Dixi antiquos ablativo ''rete'' potius quam ''reti'' usos esse. Certam normam non habuisse videntur. Ego constructionem ''in interreti'' non repudio, sed si ''in interrete'' scriptum esse videam, corrigere non audeam. [[Usor:Neander|Neander]] 06:19, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)
:::::: Ah, nunc intellego quod dicis. --[[Usor:Robert.Baruch|Robert.Baruch]] 13:19, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)
:::::: Ah, nunc intellego quod dicis. --[[Usor:Robert.Baruch|Robert.Baruch]] 13:19, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)

==Language support group for Latin==
The Wikimedia Foundation has brought together a new team of developers who are dedicated to language support. This team is to support all the languages and consequently it is not realistic to expect that the team members can provide proper support for your language. It is for this reason that we are looking for volunteers who will make up a [[:translatewiki:language support team|language support team]].

This language support team will be asked to provide us with information about their language. Such information may need to be provided either to us or on a website that we will indicate to you. Another activity will be to test software that will likely have an effect on the running of the MediaWiki software. We are looking for people who clearly identify their ability. Formal knowledge is definitely appreciated.

As much of the activity will be concentrated on [[:translatewiki:Main Page|translatewiki.net]], it will be a plus when team members know how to localise at translatewiki.net. <br>
Thanks, [[Usor:Gmeijssen|Gmeijssen]] 07:39, 20 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)

Emendatio ex 07:39, 20 Ianuarii 2012

Haec est taberna Vicipaediae ubi potes si dubia habes, explanationes quaerere, nuntia ad nos mittere et cetera.
Ut sententias antiquiores legas vide tabernae acta priora.
Quaestio nova
Hic colloqui possumus.

Quo modo reddatur, exempli gratia, phrasis "Le gallois pratique le vouvoiement de la même façon que le français"? Mattie 20:02, 18 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cambri eadem urbanitate alias dignitates salutant, ut Galli. --Martinus Poeta Juvenis 16:25, 24 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Bonum et perspicuum est enuntiatum. Nescio autem qualis debeat esse titula paginae, si paginam volumus. "Pronomina urbanitatis," fortasse? A. Mahoney 17:50, 24 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Distinctio T-V (nomen ad T-V-distinction, locutionem a Brown & Gilman factam, proximum)? IacobusAmor 19:22, 24 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Lingua Cambrica item atque lingua Francogallica distinctione T-V utitur"? Aut, cum in Vicipaedia Latina neque Francogallica scribamus, "Propter distinctionem T-V, homo unus, gradui congruenter urbanitatis, pronominibus et ti "tu" et chi "vos" appellari potest"? Mattie 23:53, 24 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
... et sine intervallo Latine scribere

Categoria: "Homines ex quibus taxa appellantur"?

Since we have categories for each of several taxonomic levels named for people (with more to come!), maybe we should also have categories constructed in the opposite direction: categories for people whose names have become taxonomic? For instance, Henricus Suter (1841–1918) is honored in the specific epithets of Asteracmea suteri, Athoracophorus suteri, Dentalium suteri, Limatula suteri, Munditia suteri, Oligosoma suteri, Omphalotropis suteri, Peripatoides suteri, Rhyssoplax suteri, and Tugali suteri. (Most are gastropods, but one is a skink.) For readers who might want to find the taxonomic names derived from people's names, such a category perhaps ought to be developed. What would be the best phrasing? "Homines ex quibus taxa appellantur" (~ "appellata sunt")? IacobusAmor 12:24, 24 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's logical, certainly, and the category name looks OK to me.
You (I say "you" because you are currently the Vicipaedian with the enthusiasm to do do this!) would be giving yourself a fair bit of extra work, I think, because the identity of the person commemorated is not always immediately evident from the article about the taxon (though one would think it ought to be!) Additionally, in the example you give, you can't add Henricus Suter to the proposed category until we have a page for Henricus Suter. So initially you would be dependent on whether we have a bio about the person commemorated; if we haven't, there won't be any page to add to this category (unless/until you write the page yourself) ... Have I understood you correctly? Andrew Dalby 08:44, 29 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Babel categories

The Babel system, which is widely used on la.wikipedia, allows users to indicate the languages that they speak or understand on their userpage.

(A few days ago, the Babel extension has been deployed on all wikimedia wikis. This extension might at last make the dozens of Babel templates unnecessary - more about the extension in a few days' time!)

The arrival of the Babel extension marks a good opportunity to re-think our current Babel category naming scheme. Currently, we have the following categories (and when the Babel template is used on a userpage, then the userpage is automatically placed in the corresponding category):

I propose the following two changes (which I would perform in the course of the possible implementation of the Babel extension – more about that later):

  1. I propose to rename Categoria:Usor qqq-# to Categoria:Usores qqq-# (UsorUsores, in order to comply with our Nomina categoriarum sunt pluralia rule, see VP:CAT).
  2. I propose to rename the Babel root category from Categoria:Linguae usorum to Categoria:Usores secundum linguas (or Categoria:Usores secundum linguas digesti or … what would be the best name)?

Objections? Comments? --UV 23:37, 25 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Very good idea. As to the name of the new root category, the style including "secundum" is not preferred, I think; my understanding is that among our stylists Iacobus goes for the ablative "Usores lingua digesti" while Neander prefers per+acc. "Usores per linguas digesti". Maybe they, or others, would like to comment further. Andrew Dalby 08:36, 27 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I am in the process of moving the categories, and I have chosen Categoria:Usores lingua digesti for now but the latter category name can easily be changed. --UV 23:25, 28 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Switching from Babel templates to the Babel extension

Since a few days ago, the Babel extension is active on all wikimedia wikis. This extension may make the Babel templates that we currently have obsolete. For a few examples of the Babel extension in action, see Vicipaedia:Babel (please help improve this page!) and User:Jafeluv.

In usage and in appearance, the Babel extension is very similar to the Babel templates. The difference in usage is that while the Babel templates are used using {{babel|fr-2|la-1|grc-1}}, the Babel extension is used using {{#babel:fr-2|la-1|grc-1}} (note the hash sign # near the beginning and note that the first language code is not preceded by a pipe symbol | but is instead preceded by a colon : ).

Advantages/Disadvantages:

The Babel extension has one big advantage: It does not need any templates (currently, when a new user comes around who speaks a new language, we have to fetch the appropriate Babel templates from, say, en.wikipedia – with the Babel extension, all Babel boxes for all languages should in theory be available).

The Babel extension has a number of small disadvantages, all of which I consider relatively minor:

  • The text in the language boxes links just to the language category, not to the language-skill category (the language-skill category can be found near the bottom of the page).
  • The language code in the language boxes does not directly link to the article about the language (but I added the link to the article about the language to most of the Babel category pages).
  • Using other boxes (e. g. the {{Usor globalis}} template) within the Babel box is somewhat tricky and in some cases not possible. However, such other boxes can be placed e. g. just below the Babel box.
  • Language boxes cannot be used outside of the Babel box. Thus, language boxes cannot e. g. be arranged horizontally next to each other instead of vertically one below the other, as they are in the Babel box.

Despite these small disadvantages, I propose (and I volunteer, partly with the help of UVbot) to switch all userpages where Babel templates are currently in use to the Babel extension and thereafter to delete all Babel templates, in order to get a homogeneous look (no mixing between Babel templates and the Babel extension) and in order never to have to worry about maintaining Babel templates any more.

Questions/Objections/Comments? --UV 23:25, 28 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should be grateful to you (and UVbot!) for offering to sort this out. It'll be much better when done. Andrew Dalby 11:51, 29 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I like this: anything that makes this kind of maintenance easier is a Good Thing. And I'll be delighted to be able to identify myself as a Sanskritist, too! If you need another pair of hands, let me know (and I do have Python installed here so if more bot-work is required I can pitch in there too). A. Mahoney 12:07, 29 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
All done! A. Mahoney, thank you for offering your help! Luckily, we are a bit smaller than en.wikipedia, so UVbot and I could manage ;-) --UV 21:54, 8 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, who are the wiseguys who marked themselves la-N? --Robert.Baruch 19:35, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pagina mensis

We need to agree on pages for the rest of the year. Please comment at Disputatio Vicipaediae:Pagina mensis.

Oportet paginas laureare pro mensibus Octobri, Novembri, Decembri. S.v.p. commenta addere apud Disputatio Vicipaediae:Pagina mensis. Andrew Dalby 08:36, 27 Septembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Historia Graeca

Shouldn't Historia Graeca and Graecia antiqua be merged?--Utilo 21:59, 8 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In the long run, not necessarily ... Many other wikis have both; "Ancient Greece" and "History of Greece". But I agree that our current article Graecia antiqua doesn't do what it should; it is just a short section from a "History of Greece" article. If you have the enthusiasm, I'd say, you could certainly merge them into a single history -- which certainly needs to be written! -- and afterwards decide if a more specialised article Graecia antiqua is also needed. Andrew Dalby 07:06, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An unexpected vicissitude

During the creation of articles, is there a reason the "Custodire hanc paginam" box has moved from a position above the "Monstrare praevisum" box to a position above the "Servare hanc rem" box? An unwanted result, since one always wants to preview a new contribution before saving it, is additional effort, since checking the box and then clicking on "Monstrare praevisum" requires more motion of the cursor. (Another result is the danger that after clicking the box, one will nudge the "Servare hanc rem" box prematurely.) In the tradeoff of design & function, that's the loss. What's the gain? IacobusAmor 12:29, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that took me by surprise as well. I agree it's bad, and for another reason: it is exactly where you expect the "Haec est recensio minor" box to be, and so I have been unchecking it, and now realise I need not have done so. Andrew Dalby 12:51, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, that's another point of confusion. Could that box be put back where it was? or could an explanation be offered? ¶ Also, the past few days, we've seen a change in how the categories are displayed (at the bottom of articles): more space occurs on either side of the divider ("|"), at least on my screen, where it looks like unnecessary airiness. IacobusAmor 13:52, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As to the position of the "Custodire hanc paginam" checkbox: The current version of MediaWiki does not allow an edit to be marked as minor when this edit creates a new page or when the "Partem novam addere" feature is used. Consequently, the "Haec est recensio minor" checkbox is not present in these cases, which causes the "Custodire hanc paginam" checkbox to move to the far left in these cases. I agree that this inconsistent position of the "Custodire hanc paginam" checkbox is bad. I have filed a bug report here: bugzilla:31567.
By the way, Iacobe: If you (nearly) always watch those pages that you create, you can use a preference for that: Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist, check "Paginas quas creo in paginarum custoditarum indicem addere".
As to the changed display of the categories list: Yes, that too is a change that was introduced by the current version of MediaWiki. The "airiness" can be observed e. g. on de.wikipedia or fr.wikipedia as well. Greetings, --UV 20:56, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is indeed a Very Good Thing that it is no longer possible to mark new pages as minor edits. I know I sometimes do this by mistake. Andrew Dalby 14:19, 10 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, our longest article, the longest on its subject in all of Vicilandia (Cultura), was so marked at its inception. :/ IacobusAmor 00:00, 24 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ubi quaestio pro automato?

Ubi quaeso pro automato? Est pagina en:Wikipedia:Bot requests in Vicipaedia Latina? --Achillus 20:25, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We have a request page for category move requests: Vicipaedia:Automata/Category move requests. For other bot requests, the Taberna is a good place (or my talk page for uncontroversial requests, since I operate a bot on la.wikipedia). Greetings, --UV 20:36, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you - gratias tibi ago. --Achillus 21:01, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Automaton pro Formula:Commune Italianum

Formula:Commune Italianum started from it:Template:Comune but now this template has been deleted from Italian Wikipedia. Right now I think that there is no reason to keep the old parameter names in Italian from that template. I think that a bot can (easily?) replace the old parameter names with the corresponding latin name.

nomeComune -> NomenItalicum
nomeUfficiale -> NomenOfficiale
linkStemma -> Insigne
nomeAbitanti -> IncolarumNomen
nomeComuneLOC -> NomenLocale
siglaRegione -> RegionisSigla
siglaProvincia -> ProvinciaeSigla
latitudineGradi -> LatitudinisGradi
latitudineMinuti -> LatitudinisMinuta
latitudineSecondi -> LatitudinisSecunda
longitudineGradi -> LongitudinisGradi
longitudineMinuti -> LongitudinisMinuta
longitudineSecondi -> LongitudinisSecunda
altitudine -> Altitudo
superficie -> Area
abitanti -> NumerusIncolarum
anno -> Annus
densita -> SpissitudoIncolarum
frazioni -> Fractiones
comuniLimitrofi -> CommuniaProxima
cap -> NumerusCursualis
prefisso -> PraefixumTelephonicum
fiscale -> NumerusTributarius
istat -> ISTAT
patrono -> Patronus
festivo -> DiesSollemnis
sito -> PaginaInterretialis
provincia -> Provincia
regione -> Regio

Can someone please help?

This template has other issues, but I will analyze the results of this first bot before asking for other help. --Achillus 21:14, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UVbot can do this rather easily. Beforehand, can someone please comment whether the new parameter names are good Latin? --UV 21:18, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For "official," Cassell's says to use "publicus (= of the state)"; so, for Nomen officiale, better Nomen publicum.Incolarum nomen is backward, and might better be Nomen incolarum.Locale isn't a (classical) word; for "local," Cassell's says to "render by a genitive, such as loci, regionis." So: Nomen loci. ¶ The eight phrases starting with RegionisSigla are backward. ¶ Gradi isn't a Latin word. ¶ The mysterious Fractiones has been discussed elsewhere. IacobusAmor 21:46, 9 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, these are some of the OTHER issues of this template :) The template is already working with the Latin or pseudoLatin names on the right side. I thought that we could fix one issue per time, anyway if we want to fix ALL the issues together then the discussion will be much longer. What is the preference in these cases? --Achillus 07:25, 10 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If I understand correctly, what is listed above will never appear on our pages: it will be hidden in the workings of the template. Yes, we want it to be good Latin and not Italian, but there is no need for it to be perfectly idiomatic.
Cassell's is handy for Iacobus because (I suspect) he has it on his desk, but it's not the ideal authority for Vicipaedia because (so far as I know) it isn't on line.
"Officialis" is in Lewis & Short. I would say it's OK, it serves our purpose -- in fact I think we can hardly manage without this word. However, I don't know what the difference is between nomeComune and nomeUfficiale: Can you explain, Achille?
I take it that what is meant by nomeComuneLOC is "name in local language/dialect". If I am correct, better than "NomenLoci" would be "NomenVernaculum", I think.
For Frazioni I continue to prefer "Vici". Andrew Dalby 14:02, 10 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Officialis is indeed in L&S, where it's shown to be postclassical, and its meaning, especially its basic meaning (which might be summarized as 'relating to duty'), isn't the most usually heard modern one (which might be summarized as 'prescribed for public use'). An official language is a language prescribed for public use, not a language relating to duty. Perhaps, though, one could sneak officialis in, like the proverbial camel's nose, under the notion of 'relating to use in (government) offices', where one might indeed expect to encounter the use of an official language. IacobusAmor 14:35, 10 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Iacobe amice! Yes, I admit its postclassicality, but it is such a handy word in the bureaucratic (= "ruled by people in offices") world that we live in ... Andrew Dalby 14:43, 10 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"NomenOfficialis" is the name to be used in offices. For most Italian municipalities it is the same name than "NomenItalicus", but for some municipalities it is the compound of the Italian name and the local name, for instance "Bolzano / Bozen" is the official name of Bauzanum. "NomenLocale" is the name in the "second" language, for instance "Bozen" for Bauzanum. Well, just note that the "second" language may be the "first spoken" language for some municipalities.
I add "NomenItalicus" to the issues, because it should be "NomenItalianum".
In order to simplify the fixes I need the help of the botter(s): a first run of the bot should perform the changes exactly as above, even if the issues about the names are not solved yet. Then I can fix the template by removing the Italian parameter names and adding support for the new better Latin names that we are discussing right now. After this, I will need a second run of the bot in order to replace the worse Latin names with the better Latin names. Sorry to ask this but this procedure will simplify the fixes to the template and have a less risk of mulfunction of the pages that include the template. --Achillus 14:55, 10 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, first rune is done. Greetings, --UV 00:16, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Great, thank you. --Achillus 11:54, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's recap and see.
  • LatitudinisGradi -> GradusLatitudinis
  • LongitudinisGradi -> GradusLongitudinis
  • NomenItalicum -> NomenItalianum ?
  • NomenLocale -> NomenVernaculum ? NomenLinguaLocali ? (fixed)
  • NomenLocaleAliud -> NomenVernaculumAliud ? NomenLinguaLocaliAlia ? (fixed)
  • NomenOfficiale -> NomenPublicum ?
  • Fractiones -> ViciMunicipii ? ViciInMunicipio ? PartesMunicipii ?
  • PerCentumItalice -> PerCentumItaliane ? (added)
  • PerCentumLocale -> ? (added)
  • PerCentumLocaleAlio -> ? (added)
Just to revert genetivus with noun (I will add other parameters I found in the template):
  • IncolarumNomen -> NomenIncolarum
  • RegionisSigla -> SiglaRegionis
  • ProvinciaeSigla -> SiglaProvinciae
  • LatitudinisMinuta -> MinutaLatitudinis
  • LatitudinisSecunda -> SecundaLatitudinis
  • LongitudinisMinuta -> MinutaLongitudinis
  • LongitudinisSecunda -> SecundaLongitudinis
  • NominisGenetivus -> GenetivusNominis ?
  • ImaginisInscriptio -> InscriptioImaginis ?
  • NominisLocalisLingua -> LinguaNominisLocalis ? (see NomenLocale for alternate forms)
  • NominisLocalisAliisLingua -> LinguaNominisLocalisAliis ? (see NomenLocaleAliud for alternate forms)
  • RegionisNexus -> NexusRegionis ?
  • ProvinciaeNexus -> NexusProvinciae ?
  • LinguarumAnnus -> AnnusLinguarum ?
  • LinguarumIncolae -> IncolaeLinguarum ?
  • MagistriCiviumAnnus -> AnnusMagistriCivium ?
And last but not least... Formula:Commune Italianum seu Formula:Municipium Italiae? --Achillus 13:12, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you prefer "NomenLinguaLoc..." to "NomenVernaculum", OK, but it needs to be "NomenLinguaLocali". All place-names are local names: the point of this one is that it's in a local language, so the word "localis" has to be in the same case as "lingua" -- ablative here.
"NominisLocalisLingua", "NominisLocalisAliisLingua", "LinguarumAnnus" and "LinguarumIncolae" make no sense to me. I can't offer a better version for those because I don't understand them. Andrew Dalby 13:32, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As pointed out above, localis, -e isn't a (classical) word; for English local, Cassell's says to "render by a genitive, such as loci, regionis." So: LinguaNominisLoci &c. IacobusAmor 13:50, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the explanation required: some municipalities have statistics about the languages spoken by the inhabitants, as declared by themselves in some census of some year. So the first language in the statistics is always Lingua Italiana, the second language is "NominisLocalisLingua" and (if present) the third language is "NominisLocalisAliisLingua". The year of the census is "LinguarumAnnus" and the inhabitant count for that census are "LinguarumIncolae"; this can be different than "Annus" which is the year for the census of "NumerusIncolarum". The percentages are respectively "PerCentumItalice" (should be changed to "PerCentumItaliane") "PerCentumLocale" and "PerCentumLocaleAlio". I added these three parameters in the list above.
Regardless of whether the statistics about the spoken languages are present, the language in which "NomenLocale" is written is "NominisLocalisLingua" and (if present) the language in which "NomenLocaleAliud" is written is "NominisLocalisAliisLingua". Note that only few municipalities have a compound "NomenOfficiale"; if this applies, the official name is a compound of "NomenItalicum" and "NomenLocale". On the other side a municipality can have a "NomenLocale" in some "NominisLocalisLingua" language but in fact its official name is simply "NomenItalicum".
Thank you for the note about ablative, I fixed it though the adjective is still disputed. --Achillus 14:10, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Localis" is a word (see L&S), though, again, postclassical. But if it's likely to be disputed, I suggest "NomenVernaculum" even more strongly.
I see what those names mean now. Then I would say:
  1. NominisLocalisLingua > LinguaNominisVernaculi
  2. NominisLocalisAliisLingua > LinguaNominisVernaculi2
  3. LinguarumAnnus > AnnusDescriptionisLinguarum
  4. LinguarumIncolae > Locutores
  5. PerCentumItalice > ItalianePerCentum
  6. PerCentumLocale > VernaculePerCentum
  7. PerCentumLocaleAlio > Vernacule2PerCentum
For the word "descriptio" meaning "census" (in more or less the modern sense), see the page I created Descriptio in Bethleem (Bruegel). But that's a word from the Versio Vulgata: someone may have a more classical word for it! Andrew Dalby 14:34, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If our grammars are to be believed, Classical Latin sometimes uses a genitive where modern languages use an adjective: so 'local name' is nomen loci 'name of a place', not nomen locale (which might have struck Cicero, one imagines, as something intelligible but goofy, like 'placey name'), and visual art is ars oculorum 'art of the eyes', not ars visualis (which similarly might have had the quality of 'sighty art') and 'headache' is capitis dolor 'pain of the head', not dolor capitalis (which similarly might have had the quality of 'heady pain'). Of course if one wishes to abandon a classical standard, then anything can be said to go. IacobusAmor 14:42, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with "nomen loci" is that it doesn't have the required meaning. We aren't trying to say "name of a place" but "name in local/vernacular language/dialect". So how do you feel about "nomen vernaculum"? Andrew Dalby 14:45, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's problematic in a different way: vernacular things are basically those having to do with house-slaves (vernae), and if Cassell's is to be believed, a classical extension of the sense covered domestic things in general, but not necessarily the modern sense of a vernacular language, which Cassell's says is sermo patrius, sermo noster, lingua nostra, verba nostratia. Ergo vos locutionem fortasse petitis nomen (in?) sermone patrio ? IacobusAmor 15:04, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I accept that there is a problem with "vernaculum", yes. How would you feel about "NomenSermonePatrio", Achille? Andrew Dalby 15:12, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, Iacobe, do you have a better word for "census" (i.e. count of heads, and in this case a linguistic count of heads) than "descriptio"? Andrew Dalby 14:49, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, census (-ūs) was fine with Cicero & Livy, so what's the worry? Taking the census is what (apud Ciceronem, Horatium, Ovidium) the censor did. IacobusAmor 15:04, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, "census" (4th decl.) is a handy choice! So then "AnnusCensusLinguarum". Andrew Dalby 15:12, 11 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well... patrius means both "of father" and "of nation" and may lead to some misunderstanding for those who do not know Cicero's Latin. Maybe can we simply use Sermo, Sermo2, NomenSermone, NomenSermone2? Or maybe sermo paternus has the same meaning? (Little note: in Italian we say "mother language" instead). --Achillus 09:50, 12 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Quo brevius, eo melius. I agree with the simple word "Sermo". You are right, "patrius" causes problems. (By medieval times, phrases like "langue maternelle" were commonly used in this sense -- as also in modern English, "mother tongue".) Andrew Dalby 10:08, 12 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A little change in my mind. We use "Lingua" almost everywhere in Vicipaedia, so what about "LinguaLoci", "Lingua2Loci", "NomenLinguaLoci" et "NomenLingua2Loci"? Then I found two others:
  • CommuniaProxima -> MunicipiaProxima ?
  • Formula:Commune Italianum -> Formula:Municipium Italiae ?
The latter is about the name of the template itself. What do you think? --Achillus 09:33, 13 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
PS: About CommuniaConiuncta... this is a list and it is not necessary that the towns listed are in Italy; in fact they use to be outside of Italy. What aboud OppidaConiuncta? --Achillus 09:41, 13 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Recap again, I see no one adds so I suppose "silence means agreement".
  • LatitudinisGradi -> GradusLatitudinis
  • LongitudinisGradi -> GradusLongitudinis
  • NomenItalicum -> NomenItalianum
  • NomenLocale -> NomenLinguaLoci
  • NomenLocaleAliud -> NomenLingua2Loci
  • NomenOfficiale -> NomenPublicum
  • Fractiones -> Vici
  • PerCentumItalice -> ItalianePerCentum
  • PerCentumLocale -> LinguaLociPerCentum
  • PerCentumLocaleAlio -> Lingua2LociPerCentum
  • IncolarumNomen -> NomenIncolarum
  • RegionisSigla -> SiglaRegionis
  • ProvinciaeSigla -> SiglaProvinciae
  • LatitudinisMinuta -> MinutaLatitudinis
  • LatitudinisSecunda -> SecundaLatitudinis
  • LongitudinisMinuta -> MinutaLongitudinis
  • LongitudinisSecunda -> SecundaLongitudinis
  • NominisGenetivus -> GenetivusNominis
  • ImaginisInscriptio -> InscriptioImaginis
  • NominisLocalisLingua -> LinguaLoci
  • NominisLocalisAliisLingua -> Lingua2Loci
  • RegionisNexus -> NexusRegionis
  • ProvinciaeNexus -> NexusProvinciae
  • LinguarumAnnus -> AnnusCensusLinguarum
  • LinguarumIncolae -> Locutores
  • MagistriCiviumAnnus -> AnnusMagistriCivium
  • CommuniaProxima -> MunicipiaProxima
  • CommuniaConiuncta -> no change
  • Formula:Commune Italianum -> Formula:Municipium Italiae
Vici et CommuniaConiuncta are my personal preference; the first because "Municipii" or "InMunicipio" is understood for all parameters, the other because these "twin municipalities" are not in Italy with few exceptions. If no one comments I will add support for new parameters to the template, will move it to the new name and finally will ask for the second span of the bot. Thank you all for all comments. --Achillus 09:57, 22 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Almost all is ready. I had a little problem, I missed something when I asked for the first span, so unfortunately I will need a third span of the bot. The second span of the bot should be this:
Formula:Commune Italianum -> Formula:Municipium Italiae (i.e. name of the template)
CommuniaProxima -> MunicipiaProxima
Fractiones -> Vici
IncolarumNomen -> NomenIncolarum
Inscriptio_imaginis -> ImaginisInscriptio
LatitudinisGradi -> GradusLatitudinis
LatitudinisMinuta -> MinutaLatitudinis
LatitudinisSecunda -> SecundaLatitudinis
LinguarumAnnus -> AnnusCensusLinguarum
LinguarumIncolae -> Locutores
LongitudinisGradi -> GradusLongitudinis
LongitudinisMinuta -> MinutaLongitudinis
LongitudinisSecunda -> SecundaLongitudinis
MagistriCiviumAnnus -> AnnusMagistriCivium
Nomen_latinum -> NomenLatinum
Nomen_latinum_gen -> NominisGenetivus
NomenItalicum -> NomenItalianum
NomenLocale -> NomenLinguaLoci
NomenLocaleAliud -> NomenLingua2Loci
NomenOfficiale -> NomenPublicum
NominisLocalisAliisLingua -> Lingua2Loci
NominisLocalisLingua -> LinguaLoci
PerCentumItalice -> ItalianePerCentum
PerCentumLocale -> LinguaLociPerCentum
PerCentumLocaleAlio -> Lingua2LociPerCentum
ProvinciaeNexus -> NexusProvinciae
ProvinciaeSigla -> SiglaProvinciae
RegionisNexus -> NexusRegionis
RegionisSigla -> SiglaRegionis
Thank you. --Achillus 11:31, 30 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I will do the secund run probably tomorrow. Greetings, --UV 00:30, 2 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Second run done. --UV 00:49, 3 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. I am analyzing the results. --Achillus 12:28, 3 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De musica

Just for fun, I've been experimenting with Formula:Audire, a variant of en:Template:Listen, slightly simplified. I've put an example into Iohannes Sebastianus Bach. Discussion, refinements, and so on are welcome. A. Mahoney 18:10, 12 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa vs. Southern Africa

Vicipaedia needs separate articles for the country (en:South Africa) and the region (en:Southern Africa)—concepts that cover vastly different geographical areas. The former in Vicipaedia is Africa Australis. What's the latter? IacobusAmor 13:28, 14 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, it may not be very easy to find an existing Latin source for that. Well, we have at least two other words for "south" (austrinus, meridianus). I guess you could arbitrarily adopt one of those, or you could say "Africa Australis (regio)" ... In favour of a proposed "Africa Austrina" would be the fact that Pliny uses "austrina (n.pl.)" to mean the southern regions of somewhere. Andrew Dalby 13:40, 14 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So Africa Austrina it is! Curiously, the use of south in South Africa violates the norm of the usual English contrast, where the plain forms (north, east, south, west) seem to denote larger regions, and the modified forms (northern, eastern, southern, western) seem to denote smaller regions, subregions, or pieces of regions. In this sense, North Africa, East Africa, and West Africa illustrate the norm, and South Africa is an exception. (Similarly with East Asia, but then en:Eastern Europe is another exception.) Maybe South Africa for the smaller entity reflects usage in some other language or languages. IacobusAmor 13:56, 14 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Aut Africae Australis Res publica et Africa Australis (regio), nulla nominum fictione adhibita? --Ceylon 18:54, 21 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De nominibus provinciarum Italiae

Subdivisiones Italiae nunc sunt regiones, provinciae, municipia et vici. Regiones, municipia et vici nomina propria habent, provinciae nomina propria non habent. Exempla: nomen regionis est Langobardia, nomen municipii est Hyspica, nomen vici est Mestria. Nomina provinciae Italiane scripta sunt provincia di et sequitur maxime nomen capitis (provincia di Milano) aut minime nomina capitum (provincia di Forlì-Cesena), vel nomen terrae (provincia dell'Ogliastra), vel nomina terrarum (una: provincia del Verbano-Cusio-Ossola), vel nomina capitis et terrae (una: provincia di Monza e Brianza); una provincia nomen proprium habet cur Vallis Augustana regio etiam est provincia.

Quomodo Latine provinciae Italiae nuncupandae sunt? Nunc in Vicipaedia paginae provinciarum Italiae sunt maxime "Caput (provincia)" aut minime nomina capitum (Forum Livii-Curva Caesena) vel nomen terrae et "(provincia)", vel nomina terrarum (Verbanus-Cusius-Oscela), vel nomina capitis et terrae (Modicia et Brigantia). Mihi titula haec videntur ut non apta sint cur titula haec non sunt nomina propria provinciarum. Exemplum: si volo de municipiis provinciae alicuius dicere, "municipia Medioliani" dicere possum? Mihi non videtur. Fortasse "municipia Mediolani provinciae" sicut etiam "influentia Padi fluminis", sed "Mediolanum" mihi videtur ut nomen proprium provinciae non sit at contra Padus nomen proprium fluminis. Fortasse mihi modo, at mihi videtur ut Mediolanum sit urbs et municipium, nec sit provincia. In paginis provinciarum Italiae sunt crebro nomina alia duo: "provincia" et genetivus (Provincia Mediolani) vel "provincia" et adiectivum (Provincia Mediolanensis). Quomodo Latine melius? "Mediolanum provincia", "Provincia Mediolani", vel "Provincia Mediolanensis", vel alia? Et postea "municipia Mediolani provinciae", "municipia provinciae Mediolani", vel "municipia provinciae Mediolanensis", vel alia? Seu formae aliae ("municipia in provincia...")? --Achillus 12:00, 15 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Utraque forma "provincia Mediolani" et "provincia Mediolanensis" aeque adhiberi videtur in paginis; exempla etiam provincia Aquilae vel provincia Aquilana, provincia Patavii vel provincia Patavina et cetera. Credo utramque formam bonam, minime autem formam "Mediolanum provincia", cum non "Mediolanum (provincia)" simplicitatis gratia scripta sit. Si Latina lingua unam formarum praeferat, nescio. Ubi de municipiis tractetur, forma "municipia in provincia Aquilana" frequens in provinciarum paginis adhibetur; formam "municipia Aquilanae provinciae" sane bonam puto, et fortasse paulo meliorem quam formam "municipia provinciae Aquilanae". --Poecus 22:20, 15 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Consentio ego. Licet formam simpliciorem e.g. "Mediolanum (provincia)" in titulis praeferere sed formis variis et Latinitati classicae congruentibus in textu uti. Andrew Dalby 09:01, 16 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Simplicitatem in formula [[Brixia (provincia)|provincia Brixiana]] non video, at contra formula [[provincia Brixiana]] simplicior est. Hoc praetermisso, Italiane solimus adiectivum praeferire magis quam "genetivum" quando de terra provinciae alicuius loquimur; Latine idem? --Achillus 20:09, 19 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Laete accipio aut "Brixia (provincia)" aut "provincia Brixiana". Lingua Latina, sicut Italiana, adiectiva saepe praefert. Andrew Dalby 16:41, 20 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Norma ut videtur est Brixia (provincia). Vide Augustus (imperator), Hell (pellicula), Miletus (genus), Mnaseas (papilio), Novum Eboracum (urbs), Ohium (flumen), Sicilia (provincia Romana), et plurima provinciarum nomina in commentario Provincia Italiae perscripta. IacobusAmor 16:55, 20 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Vicipaedia non est fons Vicipaediae. ;) Auctor idem est paginae de provincia Italiae et paginarum de provinciis Italiae; norma eius est, errata possit sicut aut non. Italiane Brescia (Brixia) est urbs et municipium at non est provincia; Italiane nomen publicum subdivisionis huius est Provincia di Brescia et nomen terrae est bresciano vel provincia di Brescia, at quando Brescia dicitur certo urbem vel municipium capio tamquam certo provinciam non capio. Nescio si Latine idem sit et ex disputatione nondum intellego. --Achillus 09:16, 22 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De rebus politicis Canadensibus

... scribo. Mores Francogallicum Anglicumque sequens, res "Canadae" neque "Canadenses" appello, ut puta Camera Communium Canadae, Senatus Canadae, Factio Liberalis Canadae, et cetera. Fortasse autem melius sit adiectivo uti, contra morem Canadensem. Vestra sententia, commentationes suntne transnominadae? Mattie 03:14, 18 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De his adiectivis nihil habemus quod dicamus, sed modo classico secundum Cassell's, adiectivum politicus (ex verbo Graeco) Anglice = 'relating to political science', cum adiectivum pro 'political' Latinitate vera = civilis et publicus, et "often rendered by reipublicae (genit. sing.)." Simile, Anglicum 'politics' = civilis ratio et respublica ; exempli gratia, 'to be engaged in politics' = in republica versari. Ergo in animo fortasse habebas scribere de civili ratione Canadensi vel tantum de republica Canadensi. IacobusAmor 13:22, 18 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Gratias tibi ago ob consilium :) Profecto movenda est commentatio de factionibus "politicis," unde nomen adiectivum "politicum" accepi ... fortasse ad Factionem publicam? Mattie 17:02, 18 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Censeo verbum "politicus" nobis utile esse, etsi apud Cassell's incognitum. Andrew Dalby 16:37, 20 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The point Cassell's is apparently making is that politicus, though relevant to modern concepts of "politics," is in classical style unidiomatic, or perhaps at least not the most frequent or unmarked way of expressing the idea. IacobusAmor 16:48, 20 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Terms of Use update

I apologize that you are receiving this message in English. Please help translate it.

Hello,

The Wikimedia Foundation is discussing changes to its Terms of Use. The discussion can be found at Talk:Terms of use. Everyone is invited to join in. Because the new version of Terms of use is not in final form, we are not able to present official translations of it. Volunteers are welcome to translate it, as German volunteers have done at m:Terms of use/de, but we ask that you note at the top that the translation is unofficial and may become outdated as the English version is changed. The translation request can be found at m:Translation requests/WMF/Terms of Use 2 -- Maggie Dennis, Community Liaison 01:02, 27 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Verba vocesque quibus in Vicipaedia proprie utimini

Ut novicius, qui modo hanc paginam interretialem legere coepi, imprimis sciscito, ubi verborum eorum, quibus vos in Vicipaedia proprie ad res administrandas utimini, velut conventum, symbola, tessera, recensere, magistratus, abrogare ceteraque, explanationem reperiam, quae ad vestrum usum spectet. Nam multa verba prout locus quo apparent postulat varia et diversa significare possunt. Proin indicate, amabo vos, ubi, si omnino, quae quaero, exponuntur. Sin minus, quin quisquam talem paginam scribit, ut initium noviciis facilius fiat?

Nobis explanationem de his verbis non credo esse. Pro tempore, i simpliciter ad "praeferentias meas"; sub "minutiis rationis" inveni "internationalizationem" ubi linguam tuam mutare potes. Non nulla verba, quibus utimur, Latinitate sunt horrida (e.g. "ratio" pro Anglico "account," quamquam "account" vim habet Francogallici verbi non "raisonnement" sed "compte"), sed egomet quo modo ea mutarentur, nescio. Salvus sis apud nos, mi amice! Mattie 18:09, 30 Octobris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1000 Paginae

It's been a while since I ran my 1000 paginae script, as A. Mahoney pointed out to me, so I just finished updating it. Enjoy! --SECUNDUS ZEPHYRUS 02:25, 5 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For those who enjoy such things, I've put together a slightly different presentation of basically the same information. A. Mahoney 15:29, 17 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, nice! It inspired me to take ten minutes and boost Oceanus Antarcticus a little. Several hundred of those articles would happily receive similar augmentation, and the table unmistakably tells us which ones they are. IacobusAmor 16:25, 17 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bot Emijrp/List of Wikipedians by number of edits

The errors noticed last week seem not to have been corrected, so the figures added to last week's figures seem to be wrong (though the amounts of the additions look to be about right). A notice was posted in the bot's own discussion page, to no avail. Could a magistrate perhaps block the bot so as to attract its attention? IacobusAmor 13:13, 7 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't do this because it didn't appear to me than any harm resulted: these are just unofficial statistics, after all. To tell the truth, I had never seen them before. But if any other magistratus thinks it advisable to use a block, fine :) Andrew Dalby 13:40, 7 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, but everybody knows that if an alleged fact appears in Wikipedia, it must be true! :) IacobusAmor 22:49, 7 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you wish, you could talk to the bot's operator here: en:User talk:emijrp#error in List of Wikipedians by number of edits?. --UV 21:07, 7 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've already tried. If you read up that talkpage, you'll see that somebody else noticed the same thing in another wiki. IacobusAmor 22:49, 7 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Adiuva!

Si robotum habes, lege, s.t.p., hanc disputationem. Andrew Dalby 09:49, 9 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

datum vs dies

Salve. In parametra formulae meae prelatae ;) parametrum vidi ex origine "datum" nuncupatur, neque nomen illius mutavi, ut "dies" (Anglice: date) significet. At timeo ut "datum" modo "aliquid donatum" significet (ex "do")... Quomodo "date of census" translari potest ex lingua Anglica? "Datum census incolarum" sive "dies census incolarum"? --Achillus 11:10, 12 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fortasse re vera de anno loquimur, minime de die. In quadam alia formula (ubi? nescio!) verbis "annus census" iam usus sum. Andrew Dalby 12:24, 12 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Verba "annus census" in formula Provinciarum Canadae insunt; consentio hanc esse bonam versionem verborum anglicorum date of census. A. Mahoney 23:55, 12 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Opinamur ut "annus" non sit... "datum" est vel "dies"? (Ex ISTAT numerus incolarum quot mense aestimatur, sic numerus 10000 die 31 Martii potest et 10010 die 30 Aprilis potest). --Achillus 21:15, 13 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Est igitur "dies"; "datum" enim Latine, ut scis, alias res varias significat. Andrew Dalby 21:24, 13 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Gratias tibi ago. --Achillus 13:56, 16 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Capsae successionum

Mutationes minores feci in formulas {{Arca initii}} et {{Arca finis}} (quae capsas creant de successionibus regum, consulum etc.). Si id detrimenta efficit in paginis mihi ignotis, s.v.p. revertite mutationes meas. Andrew Dalby 15:22, 19 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De ordine alphabetico

Ave. Solemus, more contemporaneo, distinguere intra "u" et "v" cum scribentes sumus. At, more Romano, distinctio haec non fuit. Vicipaediam quaesii de ordine alphabetico at nihil inveni. Dubius meus oritur ex ordine alphabetico uribium Italiae: "Tarvisium", "Urbinum", "Utinum", "Venetiae", "Verona", "Vicetia" seu "Taruisium", "Venetiae", "Verona", "Vicetia", "Vrbinum", "Vtinum"? --Achillus 09:02, 22 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sententia mea (necnon more nostro) haec sic sunt scribenda: Tarvisium, Urbinum, Utinum, Venetiae, Verona, Vicetia: u est vocalis, v consonans. In his ordine alphabetico scribendis, antepone igitur haec, quae littera u incipiuntur, eis, quae littera v... velut Italiane. :-) Mattie 05:28, 28 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ave

Paginas scribendi causa accipiuntur etiam tradutiones? --Traianus 12:54, 23 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Translationes ex alias Wikipedias accipimus, sed translationes humanas tantum! Machinae (e.g. Google, Babel) Latine scribere nesciunt. Si tu traductionem ex alia Wikipedia facis, indica fontem s.t.p. Andrew Dalby 13:05, 23 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Non traducere in toto ab aliarum wikiarum paginis cogitabam, sed solum exordium accipere. Etiam sic cogitata scriptura est fons indicanda? --Traianus 13:14, 23 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Utile, fortasse: potes simpliciter in "summario" indicare e.g. "initium ex it:wiki versum" ... Andrew Dalby 14:06, 23 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Degree day

Does anyone know how to translate "degree day" into Latin? See en:Degree day. --Achillus 14:57, 25 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dubito quin sit translatio Latina (facilis repertu) rei isti plus minus obscurae ... quid de "dies gradus (gen.)"? Mattie 05:46, 28 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
More physicae, solitur nomina duorum unitatum mensurae simpliciter componere cum "dimensio physica" unitatis compositae est "multiplicatio dimensionum physicarum" unitatum simplicium. Exempla (Anglice): Ampere-meter vel kilogram-metre (IV elementum). Ita est "degree day". Gnosces si "Ampere-meter" possit "Amperium metrum" seu "kilogram-metre" possit "chiliogrammum metrum" translari? Si possit, "degree day" sit "gradus dies"...
Contra: solitur "per" praepositionem uti cum "dimensio physica" unitatis compositae est "divisio dimensionum physicarum" unitatum simplicium; exemplum: kilometres per hour. --Achillus 09:40, 28 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see. I'd simply interpreted it as "day of degree" (not having paid much attention to the article), which I now see to have been completely off-mark. "Kilometres per hour" is chiliometra horalia, so in the same spirit, I'd go for something along the lines of "gradus diarii." But wait to see what others think. Mattie 15:14, 28 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well... Maybe my Latin-2 is not as good as my English-3 ;) We are _not_ in the case similar to "kilometers per hour" (with contra I meant "on the other side") but we _are_ in the case similar to "ampere-meter" and "kilogramme-meter". --Achillus 08:29, 29 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ecce gradus dies... spero intellecturum esse. --Achillus 11:19, 12 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
E' buona la tua voce! :) Mattie 23:02, 13 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merci! :) --Achillus 15:53, 14 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fascicula

Quem paginam specialem necesse me adire fasciculum novi adiungendi fasciculi causa? --Traianus 21:30, 26 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fasciculi in Vicipaediam ipsam non recipiuntur; oportet in Communia addere e.g. hac pagina. Andrew Dalby 21:52, 26 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Etiam potes clicere (imprimere) Fasciculum imponere in sinistra supra columna intra Arcam ferramentorum et missilem intorquere.:)--Jondel 10:28, 28 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Gratias ago, Jondel, de eo oblitus sum! Andrew Dalby 11:44, 28 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Libenter!--Jondel 09:16, 29 Novembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Translata est (rogatio pro formulam novam)

Ave. Usor:Achillus/Translata est est mihi idea formulae ut includenda sit in disputationes paginarum translatarum. Ecce harenarius effectus monstrans. Plane stipula est. Prima perfectio est "Vicipaedia Italiana" vel "Vicipaedia Francogallica" et cetera legi: gnoscitis si verbum magicum sit nomen latinum linguae daturum ex codice? (Unfortunately {{#language:}} does not work this way, it gives the language name in the language itself). Forma verborum etiam perficienda. Dite mihi. --Achillus 16:25, 12 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nomen linguae addidi. --UV 22:15, 12 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Our current custom is to write "ex en:Name of translated page" in the summarium when editing the page; see Vicipaedia:Taberna/Tabularium_17#Acknowledging_a_whole-article_translation. I'd rather we stay consistent and keep to what we're already doing, personally. Mattie 23:17, 12 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Laborem Achilli et UV laudo, sed cum Mattie consentio; simplicius est (sicut in Taberna statuimus) originem inserere in summario. Praefero in paginis disputationum disputationes reperire; si sit nulla disputatio, esto nulla pagina. Andrew Dalby 09:47, 13 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Gratias, nescibam... Vicipaedia Latina ex Vicipaedia Italiana differt. At nunc in summarium paginarum a me translatarum nexus ad paginas originales non est... quomodo summaria corrigentur? --Achillus 15:10, 13 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Summaria corrigi non possunt. Potes novam recensionem (fortasse recensionem minorem) facere et ibi fontem tuam in summarium inscribere. --UV 16:07, 13 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ok Facta sunt. --Achillus 13:54, 14 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ling and references formatting

Does anyone understand why template {{Ling}} makes weird results with vector skin when used in references, when the <references /> tag is surrounded with <span class="references-small"></span>? See for instance Desertum (Italia) (no template, all ok) and Paludes Tartari fluminis (the rows after the one containing the template do not display as "references-small"). I am sure that it's template {{Ling}} that makes the difference (I tested it alone in previews). --Achillus 15:53, 14 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not at home so can't experiment right now, but it looks to me like the style attribute in the Ling template may be part of the problem. The template declares a <span> with attribute "style=font-size:0.95em; color:gray;" and it seems that the style isn't getting dropped at the end of this span. Perhaps it would be enough to drop the font-size part (which would mean the language name would be the same size as surrounding text rather than a smidgeon smaller). A. Mahoney 17:07, 14 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The {{ling}} template is fine, the problem was in the the syntax of the Paludes Tartari fluminis page. Explanation: In markup, "span" is an "inline" element and can only form part of a paragraph or list item, it can (despite its name) never span across the boundary of a paragraph or of a list item (such as a reference item). On the contrary, "div" is a "block" element and can encompass several other block elements (such as paragraphs or lists, or, in our case, the entire references list with several items). --UV 19:23, 14 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Eia! Gratias tibi ago pro explicationem. Ego paginam aliam corrigam. --Achillus 13:57, 15 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Aha: should have looked more closely! Thanks for researching this. A. Mahoney 13:22, 16 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Structura paginae

Does this page still holds or should it be updated? I notice, for instance, that nowadays {{CommuniaCat}} is usually put in the "Nexus externi" part instead of in the bottom of the page. I also notice that the order of final "standard" sections differs from English Wikipedia order, while most editors seem to stick to the EW structure. --Achillus 14:32, 17 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mihi logicius videtur nexus ad Communia inter nexus externos ponere. Quod ad alia spectat, haec structura paginae simillima est huic, qua ipse utor... licet sine dubio semel bisve peccaverim in notis, parte "vide etiam," nexibusque externis bono ordine conlocandis :) Mattie 17:33, 17 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In those articles that I have written (or begun), there tends to be a rather intimate relation between "Notae" and "Bibliography". Therefore, I feel averse to putting "Nexus externi" between them. Furthermore, methinks, "Vide etiam" and "Nexus externi" are external additions that don't belong to the internal structure of the article. These are my reasons for rejecting the "Forma typica" (which, btw, ought to be written in Latin). Neander 18:54, 17 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Notae → bibliographia → vide etiam → nexus externi certainly looks good to me. The page is written in Latin... Mattie 19:39, 17 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Paginam mutavi ut et usus Vicipaediae linguae nostrae et maxime manualis Anglicum reddatur. Spero intellecturam esse. --Achillus 11:00, 18 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Emendationes laudo, sed nescio an utile sit et "Bibliographia" et "Lege etiam" accipere. Ego si "Lege etiam" in paginis nostris repperi, ad "Bibliographia"m semper mutavi! Suadeo simplicius esse indicem librorum commentationumque singulum usoribus praebere.
Si novum ordinem supplementorum (i.e. Notae, Bibliographia, Vide etiam, Nexus externi) omnes accipimus, quaero an fortasse bot quoddam paginas iam factas rursus ordinare posset. Ego enim multas centenas paginarum alio ordine creavi!
Anglice, If everyone is happy with this revised order of supplement sections, would it be possible for a bot to rearrange already-existing pages in this order? Because I know I have written many hundreds of pages in the other order (Vide etiam, Notae, Nexus externi, Bibliographia)! Andrew Dalby 13:20, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Bot rearrangement: Probably not, the risk would be too high that the bot moves things around in undesired ways. --UV 22:06, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks for considering this: I see the difficulty. If everyone agrees on a new fixed order, we can gradually move to it as we edit existing pages. Andrew Dalby 14:54, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
IIRC, the order received from (not long after) the Founding was: Vide etiam, Notae, Fontes, Nexus externi. I've contributed many hundreds of pages following that order. (I used to use the heading "Fontes," but it was Andrew's use of "Bibliographia," despite his present protestation, that abhinc annos tres ~ quattuor led me to favor that heading most of the time.) Since prints are often readable online, a distinction between physical objects and electronic versions of them may no longer be useful, though perhaps a distinction between electronic versions of prints and electronic versions of texts that have never gone through the press may still be worth keeping. IacobusAmor 14:45, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I make no protestation -- I have always favoured "Bibliographia" and still do. Andrew Dalby 17:14, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree 100% (or more) with your last point. My fixed rule, wherever I compile a Vicipaedia bibliographia, is to include in it only items that have been published or have undergone an equivalent peer-review process (thus I have, for example, sometimes included Encyclopaedia Iranica articles even though these no longer appear in print). All other on-line items I relegate to "Nexus externi". Andrew Dalby 17:22, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Until a couple of days ago, I didn't even know (or possibly remember) the existence of the "structura paginae" page. I edited the page bona fide without any notion that I might thereby create some bureucratic trouble. My edits can be reverted, of course. I may occasionally, though, fail to show obedience to rules whose raison d'être escapes my wit. Neander 16:24, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Don't be diffident: I (for one) see no bureaucratic trouble. I have been hoping that eventually a logical reason to prefer one or other order would show up: yours, Neander, is the only one that I have seen expressed, and it suits me ... but perhaps others take different views? Several different arrangements are to be found when glancing through random pages. Andrew Dalby 20:13, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What is "Vide etiam" for? This is the main thing we have to understand. My assumption is that "Vide etiam" is *not* a list that replicates somehow the wikilinks already present in the article (exactly as it is written in the explanation below the consilium page: Sub rubrico "Vide etiam" adde paucos nexus lectoribus utiles quae in textu non potes inserere.). In the English Wikipedia there is written that As a general rule the See Also section should not repeat links which appear in the article's body or its navigation boxes and this is also what is written in our Latin page; but then it adds a very interesting thing: Thus, many high-quality, comprehensive articles do not have a See Also section.. I agree.
Assuming this (as this is the main point in my opinion) the "Vide etiam" section should not precede the "Notae" and "Bibliographia" sections, because "Notae" are part of the article itself and the "Bibliographia" section (well... here is another assumption in my opinion) is the list of printed books used to build the Wikipedia article; on the other side, the "Vide etiam" section collects links to related articles and (by definition) this list is not a part of the article.
Having this assumption in mind, my preferred order is "Notae", "Bibliographia", "Vide etiam", "Lege etiam" (a list of related books, but not used to build the article - same rationale used to build the "Vide etiam" section), "Nexus externi". "Lege etiam" is my personal translation of "Further reading" and can be changed with a better expression if needed. --Achillus 09:25, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is important to discuss these matters, and I am really glad that you and Neander have raised them.
As regards "Vide etiam", I agree with you completely. An ideally good article will not have a "Vide etiam" section, because all related topics will already have a link in the text. An incomplete article will often have a "Vide etiam" section. Part of my aim, if I improve articles, is either to incorporate "Vide etiam" links into new text, or to delete them if they are not really relevant.
I agree with you and Neander completely over the order of elements, and, if we all agree, I will be happy if my existing pages can be changed by a bot so that the order is standard.
I am uncertain whether it is useful to readers to have a separate list of books that were used for building the article, and books that are also relevant. I am trying to look at it from the eventual reader's point of view, and I do not see why the reader will be helped by having two book lists. I am thinking aloud here. Wikipedia articles are "works in progress": therefore, as we improve the article, we should use all available sources, and we might well consult books from both lists. If we have done so, what do we do? Transfer the book from "Lege etiam" to "Bibliographia". So eventually there will be no "Lege etiam": either we will have consulted those books, or else we will have decided they are not useful, and deleted them. Therefore an ideally good article will not have a "Lege etiam", because the books will either have been consulted (so they go into the bibliographia) or found to be useless (so the mention can be deleted).
OK, so, in my opinion this morning (!), both the "Vide etiam" and "Lege etiam" sections should be regarded as temporary: an ideally complete article probably will not have either of them. What do others think of this? Andrew Dalby 10:29, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you in every respect! I've never understood why there should be two bibliographies. Neander 12:04, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(I draw the line at twelve indentation markers. I'm going back to the left margin!)

Summarizing, then: we want our reference sections in the order Notae, Bibliographia, Nexus Externi. Notae is the <div class="references-small"> etc. Bibliographia contains the books, articles, and other sources cited in footnotes or otherwise relevant to writing the page, or useful for readers (for an example of how this might work, see Mathematica). Nexus Externi begins with a link to Communia if appropriate, and presumably also to Vicifons if appropriate, then any other useful web links not already included. Vide Etiam, containing internal links, should be removed in favor of incorporating those links into the text. Lege Etiam, containing bibliographic items not directly cited in footnotes, should be merged into Bibliographia. Have I got it right? If so, this seems sensible to me. I'm not sure we need a concerted effort to make all existing articles conform to this shape (though at least some easy cases should be bottable), but we might want to re-order articles we find ourselves working on. A. Mahoney 15:06, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Nexus Externi begins with a link to Communia if appropriate, and presumably also to Vicifons if appropriate, then any other useful web links not already included." That arrangement is visually awkward: it's bad graphic design. Links to Communia & Wikimedia, unless they're redesigned, should follow the other nexus externi; as something-more-than-just-plain-text, they'd lead more smoothly there to the sign of a stipula. Alternatively, if the links to Communia & Wikimedia could be made into a box that would fit on the right-hand side, as in the Find-more-about-Martinique-on-Wikipedia's-sister-projects box in en:Martinique, that would look good. Incidentally, en:Martinique shows an exemplary series in: Miscellaneous topics + See also + References + External links. The last two sections naturally go at the bottom because that's the area to which presses always shunt material that nobody reads. In contrast, a Vide etiam function can still be part of a text (the part that people might read). Just yesterday I read a text in which were embedded vide etiams like this: "Blablabla (Smith 1992; on the contrary, see Jones 1993; for more on the by-election, see Turtelheim 1993). Blablabla." And yes, it makes no sense to have both a Lege etiam section and a Bibliographia section. IacobusAmor 16:03, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I agree with you that vide etiams can be included in the text and notes.
A "miscellaneous topics" section seems a bad example to me (possibly an excuse for not deleting the "trivia" section that was wisely outlawed on en:wiki a few years ago).
What's your view about the proposed order "Notae", "Bibliographia", "Nexus externi", Iacobe? Andrew Dalby 17:13, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed about a "miscellaneous topics" section. IIRC, the notae, bibliographia, and nexus externi sections have been in that order since time immemorial. ¶ But a new question arises! Is there any support here for putting photogalleries at the very bottom, below everything that's been discussed in this thread? That's where we occasionally find them in Wikipedia (for example, at en:Polygonia c-album.) Ex contrario, they seem to belong more with the text than with the supporting matter, so one should prefer to continue Vicipaedia's tradition of putting them just before the vide etiam section (itself just before the notae section); however, if we had unanimous consent to put them at the very bottom, one might not object. ¶ A propos galleries: contributors may have a tendency to overdo the pinacotheca section, especially when numerous images are available, but multiple images can sometimes be useful. For example, with butterflies, it can be helpful to show (1) the egg, (2) the larva, (3) the pupa, (4) the adult from above, (5) the adult from below, (6) any major or diagnostic dimorphic differences between males & females, and (7) other relevant things, such as the damage that the larvae can inflict (one of these, usually #4, will already be in the taxobox), but of course at this stage of development, the wikipedias don't have a complete array of such images for most species. IacobusAmor 13:53, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I must look up "IIRC" some time, but it seems that all who have so far spoken agree :)
I agree with you also about the pinacotheca! If I use one at all, it is (as you say) because there is a special need to display a series of images; e.g. near the foot of Triumphi Caesaris (Mantegna), where I wanted small images of the woodcut versions of the pictures. In general, Vicipaedia is not a picture gallery, and another aspect of improving an incomplete page is aligning useful images alongside the text, deleting useless ones, and thus eliminating the great majority of our pinacothecae. Andrew Dalby 14:15, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I like the summary by A. Mahoney a lot. We can make it clear that sections like "Vide etiam", "Pinacotheca" and possibly "Lege etiam", "Miscellaneous", "Trivia" and the like are strongly discouraged. One can add "Vide etiam" and/or "Pinacotheca" sections at the bottom of the article as a suggestion to other editors to "inline" the items; by the way, other editors are free to inline the items as well as to remove the sections if the items are found to be unrelated. --Achillus 13:03, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I can see the benefit of functionally organised galleries of the type of which Iacobus gave a good example, but in general, there are way too much pages in which galleries have been piled up obviously in order to compensate for the dearth and jejuneness of the text. I agree that galleries might be put before the vide etiam or even before the notae section, provided that they're carrying a sensible function. Neander 15:08, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De pagina "Cuba" in Vicipaedia

Avete! Ecce Cubanus sum, et in Habana, caput insulae Cubae, habito. Intellegere non possum cur nomen civitatis nostrae in pagina Vicipaediae ad Cubam dedicata, "Avana" et non "Habana" scriptum est. Cubani nunquam ita civitatem nostram nominamus, sed omnes semper, a temporibus Hispanicae coloniae, consensum habemus quod nomen "Habana" litteram B utentes, et praeterea in principio verbi litteram H adiungentes, recte scribundum est. Insuper nihil dicit Vicipaedia de Latinitate in Cuba, ubi semper hanc pulcherrimam Linguam multi docti viri coluerunt. Primi libri nostri Latine scripti sunt. Lingua Latina et non dialecto Hispanico magistri docebant in prima nostra Universitate Sancti Hieronimi Habanae. Et etiam in publicis inscriptionibus, Lingua Latii semper praestitit; verbi gratia, videte Epigrammam in memoriam defuncti Episcopi Iohannis Iosephi Diaz Espadae et Landae, quam scripsit egregius presbyterus Iosephus Augustinus Caballerus: "Animus si ipsius, moresque despingi potuissem, pulchrior in terra nulla tabella fovet". Puto hanc paginam Vicipaediae rem valde inchoatam esse. Et vellem magis de Cubana Latinitate et coloniale Historia nostra hic scribere. Valete.

Commentationem pristinam non subscriptam Habanensis scripsit (disputationes conlationes) 19:48, 18 Decembris 2011‎.

Salve Habanensis et gratus apud nos. Nomina aut Havana aut Avana sola invenitur Latine, quamquam Habana nomen verum Hispanicum est nullo dubio. Inspice exempli gratia fontes complures Latines qui dantur apud pagina Havana.Rafael
Commentationem pristinam non subscriptam 96.242.237.48 scripsit (disputationes conlationes) 12:35, 19 Decembris 2011‎‎.

Automaton pro formulam:Municipium Italiae (tertia pars)

Hi. Now I am ready for the third span of the bot. Sorry for long delay, but I had to build some pages: Seismologia, Classis seismica et Gradus dies. These seems to me good terms in Latin, see this discussion about the third one; I then found a bilingual (Italian-Latin) journal (year 1906) where "seismologia" was the equivalent for "sismologia" (i.e. seismology) and "seismicus" was the adjective in use in the Latin part. I hope that these are agreed translations. If so, these are the new equivalences:

NominisGenetivus -> GenetivusNominis
ImaginisInscriptio -> InscriptioImaginis
Datum -> DiesCensusIncolarum
zonaSismica -> ClassisSeismica
gradiGiorno -> GradusDies

Then some parameters are not used and can be deleted:

mappaX -> (delendum)
mappaY -> (delendum)

The last parameters are tricky: they need some computation by the bot, if possible:

Annus=2005 (exemplum) -> DiesCensusIncolarum=anno&nbsp;2005
AnnusMagistriCivium=2010 (exemplum) -> DiesElectionis=anno&nbsp;2010
AnnusCensusLinguarum=2009 (exemplum) -> DiesCensusLinguarum=anno&nbsp;2009

Is this feasible? --Achillus 13:54, 19 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would be an easy thing to do, but it would not be a good idea at all, because the parameter "Annus" currently contains data in a variety of date formats, for example:
So, there are several possibilities, including:
  • To leave the parameter value of "Annus" unchanged (the parameter name can be changed if desired) (UVbot can do this)
  • To delete the day and month and to keep only the year (UVbot can do this)
  • To edit the pages manually to whatever form is desired (UVbot can probably not do this)
Greetings, --UV 21:45, 19 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hm... those boxes (except Panormus) have been compiled in the wrong way, they should have used "Datum" parameter instead of "Annus" parameter.
Well... by the way the second bullet make me feel that the bot can understand if there is a day and month or if there is year only. In this case, I wonder if it is possible to split execution, i.e.:
  • if only year, add "anno&∓nbsp;", else leave it as it is
Or maybe the best solution should be to leave the data unchanged. The result would not be so bad, say something like this:
  • Numerus Incolarum: 11 358 (2010)
instead of:
  • Numerus Incolarum: 11 358 (anno 2010)
The last thing I can think of is the following: if both Datum and Annus have values, then the priority goes to Datum (as they both "collapse" into DiesCensusIncolarum).
Oops... I forgor another thing: the bot should also remove all formatting from these parameters:
Locutores=11&thinsp;358 (exemplum) -> Locutores=11358
NumerusIncolarum=11.358 (exemplum) -> NumerusIncolarum=11358
I do not think I ever found anything after the number in "NumerusIncolarum" (something like a comment or a note), by the way if I am wrong this comment or note should go in NotaCensusIncolarum; this parameter creates a "ref" tag so in this case the "Notae" section should also be checked and created if necessary... Too many things? --Achillus 08:49, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Removing dots and &thinsp;s from "Locutores" and "NumerusIncolarum" seems doable. What shall we do about "Datum" now, leave it as it is (no changes to parameter values, and no changes to the parameter name either)? --UV 22:03, 20 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I stroke the preceding and I summarize the new request:
NominisGenetivus -> GenetivusNominis
ImaginisInscriptio -> InscriptioImaginis
Datum -> DiesCensusIncolarum
Annus -> DiesCensusIncolarum
zonaSismica -> ClassisSeismica
gradiGiorno -> GradusDies
AnnusMagistriCivium -> DiesElectionis
AnnusCensusLinguarum -> DiesCensusLinguarum
mappaX -> (delendum)
mappaY -> (delendum)
Locutores=11&thinsp;358 (exemplum) -> Locutores=11358
NumerusIncolarum=11.358 (exemplum) -> NumerusIncolarum=11358
As you see, both Datum and Annus collapse into DiesCensusIncolarum. The request is: if at most one parameter is valued, then keep that value. If both parameters are valued, keep the value that was in "Datum". Examples.
Old:
  • Datum=31-12-2009
  • Annus=
New:
  • DiesCensusIncolarum=31-12-2000
Old:
  • Datum=
  • Annus=2008
New:
  • DiesCensusIncolarum=2008
Old:
  • Datum=31-10-2011
  • Annus=2010
New:
  • DiesCensusIncolarum=31-10-2011
I hope that it is clearer now. --Achillus 10:20, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I will look into this within the next few days. Greetings, --UV 23:22, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Greetings, --UV 21:35, 27 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Gratias :) Nunc optimae sunt. Vale. --Achillus 09:32, 28 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Slipping magnifier, and: Adiutatum?

  • I’ve noticed that the magnifier of the vide-etiam-formula slips over the pages (at least on Graecia and Cos – and maybe somewhere else? Could someone fix it to the right place?
  • Where ist the data content of Adiutatum? Where are the formulae etc.?--Utilo 20:18, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done. The magnifier was defined as a "floating element" instead of an "inline element" so its position was unpredictable
  • Right now the "Auxilium:" namespace (if this is what you mean) is empty. You can find most help in Categoria:Consilia Vicipaediana. You can also refer to Specialis:Praefixa and specify "Vicipaedia" as "spatium nominale". Formulae are in Categoria:Formulae. I hope that I answered your question.
--Achillus 08:37, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks about the magnifier, Achille: I never understood that problem.
I'm not sure, but maybe the second question was about this: There was a sudden change in the position and function of items in the left margin yesterday: one of the changes was that "Adiutatum" moved upwards and pointed to nothing. It has now moved back to its usual position and leads to Vicipaedia:Praefatio as it normally does. Andrew Dalby 08:58, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see. Thank you. --Achillus 12:50, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both!--Utilo 13:48, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any Thurber enthusiasts?

I've just started Surgere mane and interwiki linked it to en:Waking up early. The English page seems to consist largely of errors, but I think it possible that the reference to James Thurber is correct. (His book Fables for our time appeared in 1940: the relevant fable is presumably "The Shrike and the Chipmunks", which had previously appeared in the New Yorker, Feb 18, 1939, and the quotation I need to confirm is "Early to rise and early to bed, makes a Shrike healthy, and wealthy, and dead".) Can anyone confirm or emend this from a printed text? Andrew Dalby 20:45, 21 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've done it now. Like every other sentence in that en:wiki article, it is partly wrong. My problem in trying to verify the quotation via google was that the error is in the key word. The correct text is surely "Early to rise and early to bed makes a male healthy and wealthy and dead" (see page 339 apud Google Books). Andrew Dalby 11:23, 25 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can't help with the printed text, but what have you done with Dr. Millmoss?! IacobusAmor 13:12, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He is unknown to me. Please enlighten me! Andrew Dalby 14:16, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Google is our friend! (The quotation is from one of Thurber's best-known cartoons; it turns up in conversation from time to time.) IacobusAmor 15:53, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer "Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes." --Robert.Baruch 15:03, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nice one. Seems to be a wise insight first spoken by Mazer Rackham, a character devised by en:Orson Scott Card in en:Ender's Game. Have I got that right? Andrew Dalby 08:32, 24 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wikiquote agrees, although it claims there's no and: "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes." Of course, if someone actually has the book, that's always a better source. Mattie 17:55, 24 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Web sources, especially wikis, tend to get these things subtly wrong. Of the sources I can find, the one I am inclined to trust is this because there's a chance it was copy-pasted from the book text. What I don't know (maybe Robert does) is whether this quote first appeared in the 1977 Analog novelette, or only in the 1985 book version.Andrew Dalby 11:54, 25 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've only read the 1985 version, not the novelette. --Robert.Baruch 00:04, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for replying!
You were right, Robert, and Wikquote is wrong, about the exact wording of the quotation. I've checked the book myself meanwhile. Andrew Dalby 13:58, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(sigh) We really are a bunch of nerds, aren't we. --Robert.Baruch 14:53, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer "pedants" :) Andrew Dalby 18:15, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hardly relevant, mais ceci me déçoit : Se coucher tôt, se lever tôt, rend l'homme stupide et aveugle. Pourquoi pas "rend l'homme aveugle et sot"?! (ou même cela rend... pour le bon montant de syllabes!) Mattie 18:02, 24 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Quand les traducteurs se font mieux payer, nous aurons meilleures traductions ... peut-être" -- Andrew Dalby
Ouais, ça m'a pris presque cinq secondes pour aveugle et sot (-; Joyeux Noël, Andrew! Mattie 19:40, 25 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Pareillement! ... et à tous nos amis Vicipædiens ... Andrew Dalby 21:32, 25 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Open Call for 2012 Wikimedia Fellowship Applicants

I apologize that you are receiving this message in English. Please help translate it.

  • Do you want to help attract new contributors to Wikimedia projects?
  • Do you want to improve retention of our existing editors?
  • Do you want to strengthen our community by diversifying its base and increasing the overall number of excellent participants around the world?

The Wikimedia Foundation is seeking Community Fellows and project ideas for the Community Fellowship Program. A Fellowship is a temporary position at the Wikimedia Foundation in order to work on a specific project or set of projects. Submissions for 2012 are encouraged to focus on the theme of improving editor retention and increasing participation in Wikimedia projects. If interested, please submit a project idea or apply to be a fellow by January 15, 2012. Please visit https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Fellowships for more information.

Thanks! --Siko Bouterse, Head of Community Fellowships, Wikimedia Foundation 02:53, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Distributed via Global message delivery. (Wrong page? Fix here.)

Placement of code for a stipula

One notices that in Provincia Ravennas noster Achillus has moved the sign of the stipula from just before the categories to just after them. Since the stipula box always prints at the bottom, the placement of this code doesn't matter, but the tradition in Vicipaedia has always been to type the code just before the code for the categories. The practice in other wikis may differ. IacobusAmor 14:03, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disputationem vide de Structura paginae :) It makes no difference to me either, I was just using the structure that was "in charge" at the moment of my edit (a copy-and-paste from English WP - yes, according to the rules there the stub templates should go between categories and interwikies). Now the structure of our VP has changed again, my next edit will reflect the new structure. --Achillus 15:41, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that, Achille. I think in practice we have always followed the order that Iacobus states: it's just that the "Structura paginae" page never said so (until today) :( Andrew Dalby 16:06, 22 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind, VP is a work-in-progress. We all are (should be) aware of this. My preference goes to {{stipula}} placed before categories, by the way the visual result is the same so I have no special reason to prefer this in spite of that. --Achillus 13:07, 23 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

De "Categoria:Locus patrimonium UNESCO continente digesta"

Amice Nuada, matutinum huius diei felicis coffeum imbibere iam coepimus, sed grammaticam tuae locutionis non intellegimus. Eheu! Forsitan Anglice sit 'a place, a UNESCO patrimony, arranged by continent'? Sed quid significant haec verba occulta? Nostris huius generis categoriis plerumque sunt formulae plurales, quia digerere singulam rem nullo modo fieri potest. Praeterea, adiectivum digesta perperam nomen locus (vel nomen patrimonium) petit, atque verbum Anglicum 'patrimonial' (in locutione congruente 'a patrimonial place') Latine est patritus, -a, -um. Haud scimus ergo an melius sint verba "Loci patriti UNESCO continente digesti." (Acronymum UNESCO hic erit adiectivum quod verbum loci petit, ut sit UNESCOenses, non?) Belle, alium nobis faciamus calicem coffei nunc. :/ IacobusAmor 12:44, 25 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jakarta

*Jakarta est nomen in lingua maternali Indonesia constitutum et ab Ephemeris Latina praelatum;

*Habemus paucas citationes pro "Iacarta" (sed possum accipere!) et "Iacartum" (cur neutrum?) Andrew Dalby 10:00, 6 Novembris 2010 (UTC)

Andrea carissime, auctoritatem appellandi, quemadmodum patrii terram ipsam nominauerint, non intellego necque percipio: nunquam enim ea genera rituum secuti sumus quae consuetidunum natura Latine scribendi quam uehementissime contrauertuntur. Maxima cum audacia Janum Pannonium, qui nomen sibi cum J dederat, cum I moris Vicipaediani respectu inscribimus; ut etiam apud eos, qui se Iohannem neque Ioannem appellabant. Quae cum ita sint nequeo usum J accipere. Quod ad k spectat, a me accipitur; sed nescio cur oporteat ut in hac littera iamdudum prorsus exstincta permaneamus, quippe qua uti in iis uerbis consueuerint, si litteram uocales ae, oe, e, i, y sequantur sed antiquo modo item ac post a, o, u, consonantes et uerbo finito pronuntiantur. --Martinus Poeta Juvenis 10:24, 28 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fontes Latinos pro "Jakarta" et pro "Iacarta" repperi; ego igitur olim formam quae cum nomine vulgari congruit selegi, sed licet aliis aliter statuere! (Victrix causa deis placuit, sed victa Catoni :) Andrew Dalby 14:20, 28 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Stipula coleopterorum

Is there a chance that some kind programmer will find an icon of a beetle and insert it into the stipula

Haec stipula ad Coleoptera spectat. Amplifica, si potes!

so we don't have to keep looking at that #$%#$% flower where a beetle should be? A tiny beetle could well be sitting on the flower, but we can't see it. :/ IacobusAmor 18:45, 28 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is this beetle good enough? ;)
coleopteron pro Iacobo
--Aylin 19:32, 28 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ooh, that's a lovely one, a stag beetle, Lucanus cervus ! We'll have to make a page for it someday. Gratias !IacobusAmor 19:57, 28 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

#REDIRECT categoriarum?

How do we redirect categories? Redirection would help people who, for example, might search for Categoria:Taxa Bily, rather than Categoria:Taxa Bílý‎ (note the accents). Or is redirecting categories possible? IacobusAmor 13:53, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting is possible, but if you add pages to [[:Categoria:Taxa Bily]] they will not display in Categoria:Taxa Bílý. So I think it is preferable not to create redirects for categories. For queries: you can always search VP without accents; pages and the rest with accents will display even if there is no redirect. --Achillus 14:56, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Achillus is right: redirection, although technically possible, is deprecated for categories. The result of setting up a redirect would be that if you then added a category under the variant name to a page, it would look blue, but no one would be able to navigate to it. It would be effectively lost. This is a weakness of the wiki environment which we by ourselves can't overcome.
Luckily, as Achillus says, a search without accents should normally result in finding the titles that have accents.
A more complete solution, if you want to go this far, is to create a biography page for the biologist Bílý. Such a page can have all the necessary redirects and can have a link to the category. Andrew Dalby 18:47, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, my mistake. Then could some kind soul delete the redirect we made for "Bily." Sorry! IacobusAmor 20:52, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. No problem. It is frustrating.
Incidentally, I edited the page for Categoria:Taxa Bílý. You might like to glance at it to see what I did. The name still looks right, but it will now file in the expected place between Bik and Bim!Andrew Dalby 21:39, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mandatum "{{reflist}}"

UV ut videtur mandatum "{{reflist}}" mandato "<div class="references-small"><references /></div>" mutat. Quia mandatum "{{reflist}}" in monitorio recte in Vicipaedia imprimitur et multo brevius est, cur id vitare debemus? IacobusAmor 20:52, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Vitare non necesse est. {{reflist}} est mandatum brevius, "<div class="references-small"><references /></div>" immo est mandatum directius.
Non feci solum hanc mutationem, sed dum res aliae mutavi, mutavi etiam hanc rem. Vale! --UV 23:48, 29 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any programmers handy?

If possible, {{Infobox military conflict}}, {{Campaignbox Indochina Wars}}, and {{Campaignbox Vietnam War}} need to be made to work in Bellum Indosinense II. IacobusAmor 21:06, 30 Decembris 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Working on this. --Robert.Baruch 15:51, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Need an administrator to go to en:MediaWiki:Common.css, copy out the two blocks relating to the .hlist style, and insert into MediaWiki:Common.css. Then do the same for en:MediaWiki:Common.js to MediaWiki:Common.js. After that, I can continue to work on this. --Robert.Baruch 16:21, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Macte! For the article in question, fixing the boxes will improve our standing in regard to the 1000 paginae. IacobusAmor 16:35, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
UV has solved the issue without having to change Common.*, and as an added benefit, I feel like an idiot :) --Robert.Baruch 21:24, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No need at all and no justification at all for this "added benefit"! I am just a bit reluctant to add several lines of code to our Common.* that would affect only a few of our pages but that would nevertheless have to be served and processed/executed on every page view. Glad you like the solution! Greetings, --UV 21:28, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Iacobus, or anyone, can you provide better Latin terms for the terms "military engagement", "Indochina Wars", "Belligerents", "Commanders and leaders", "strength" (i.e. number and type of forces), "Casualties and losses", "Territorial changes", "Units involved"? Then I can change all the headings and the names of the formulae for great Latinitas. --Robert.Baruch 21:30, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The formulae can now be used: {{Capsa belli}}, {{Campaignbox Indochina Wars}} (pending Latinitas for "Indochina Wars"), and {{Expeditio Belli Indosinense II}}. The above terms still need translation. --Robert.Baruch 01:09, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pro "military engagement", "Indochina Wars", "Belligerents", "Commanders and leaders", "strength" (i.e. number and type of forces), "Casualties and losses", "Territorial changes", "Units involved" : fortasse: pugna ~ proelium, Bella Indosinensia, belligerentes, imperatores et duces, vires, casus, mutationes terrae ~ territorii, copiae ? IacobusAmor 16:19, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, we now have {{Capsa belli}}, {{Expeditio Bellorum Indosinensiorum}}, and {{Expeditio Belli Indosinense II}}. Have fun! --Robert.Baruch 02:41, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

crater impactionis?

Lucubrans verbum ineptum pro „Einschlagskrater / Impact crater“ excogitavi (vel melius ex-somniavi): crater impactationis. Antequam paginam (denuo) movebo, sententiam vestram de optima notione quaerere mihi videtur: crater impactionis, crater ictus, crater meteoritae impactione / ictu ortus .... ?--Utilo 14:01, 2 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Crater impactus ? Crater incussu factus ? IacobusAmor 13:17, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Constat impactationem a verbo frequentativo impactare 'saepe pluriesve impingere' deductam esse. Itaque potius cratera impactionis suaserim. Quod Leo Latinus quidem de cratere illisionis loquitur, fontem extravicipaedianum habemus: ∓crater illisionis (Ephemeris 2007). Neander 17:38, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cassell's doesn't have inlisio (or illisio, or even lisio). What's it's root? Laedo ? IacobusAmor 22:20, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ita vero. Neander 22:33, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
illido iam apud scriptores "Latinitatis aureae" in usu est, illisio apud Hieronymum et Caelium Aurelianum; contra impactio ne tarda quidem antiquitate apparere videtur. Quare (et propter fontem extravicipaedianum) verbo crater illisionis utar. Gratias vobis ago pro sententiis vestris!--Utilo 22:51, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sphaerae

Spheres are sphaerae (f. pl., well attested), except when they arent: hemispheres are hemisphaeria (n. pl., well attested). So what are the rarer spheres: biosphere, hydrosphere, lithosphere, pedosphere? One assumes that hemisphaerium is an exception because of its halfness; hence its derivation from a Greek diminutive, hemisphaerion. The other spheres being whole, one assumes they're not diminutives and therefore follow the pattern of atmosphaera (f. sing., well attested). Right? IacobusAmor 13:17, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly makes sense. Another difference is that hemisphere uses sphere in the sense of geometrical figure, and the other *-spheres use sphere in the sense of region. --Robert.Baruch 15:49, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bars

No, not the drinking establishment or the ones on the window, but the two-dimensional geometrical shape whose one side is much larger than the other side (as in search bar and bar code). My Traupman doesn't have this sense. It has vectis as the unqualified translation, but that seems to specifically mean a thing used to impart leverage, as in a crowbar, a lever, a bar on a door or gate, and so on. Ideas? --Robert.Baruch 16:38, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For bar in the sense of 'crossbeam', Stearn's Botanical Latin gives transtrum. It doesn't have a word for 'stripe', but for 'striped' it gives fasciatus and grammatus ('with raised lines') and vittatus ('longitudinally striped'). It doesn't have a word for 'band', but for 'banded' it adds that fasciatus = 'with transverse stripes of one colour crossing another'. These are technical terms in botany, and of course their analogs in zoology could differ. IacobusAmor 17:04, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Based on pictures of bobcats, probably fasciatus will have to do since the lines are neither raised nor longitudinal. --Robert.Baruch 17:33, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fascia, -ae would be the nominal form of fasciatus, I believe. Its definition, as provided by Felix Gaffiot, is "bande, ruban" (inter alia). Mattie 18:45, 5 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, one of the subspecies of L. rufus is L. rufus fasciatus, the striped bobcat, so it's a good choice. --Robert.Baruch 01:00, 6 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

automata

Ave! Ego cum automata laboro. Meum auxilium libenter offero ad la.wikim. Quomŏdo possum adiuvare vos? "welcomer bots" vultisne? Spero non multa errora ego feci ut scrivere vos. Can I speak English? i am italian, i studied latin at school but it is faster for me to write English than Latin.--Nickanc 22:13, 7 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Salve, Nickanc. Yes you can write English (or Italian) on the Taberna and there are people who will understand! I expect those who know more about bots will answer your question, but certainly your offer is welcome. Andrew Dalby 10:17, 8 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Andrew. I would like to make my bot welcome automatically new users using welcome.py, therefore adding in every new user talk {{salve|Taberna}} %s where %s will be a random signature of the ones of you who want to welcome new users. My bot's name is User:Cellistbot.--Nickanc 21:34, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we should discuss beforehand whether we actually want to have new users welcomed automatically by a bot. If yes, then your help is greatly appreciated, but I am not yet convinced that this is desirable, for the following reasons:
  • The vast majority of "new" users are visitors to la.wikipedia who are editors on a different Wikimedia project (mostly: on a wikipedia in a different language) and most probably have followed an interwiki link. I suspect that hardly any one of them is able to write Latin. I believe that in most cases a welcome message is not helpful for these users, as they do not intend to edit or visit la.wikipedia regularly, and they know wikipedia (albeit in a different language) quite well. You can look at Special:Log/newusers and watch out for "Ratio automatice creata" (an account created beforehand on a different Wikimedia project, before visiting la.wikipedia) and for the redlink to "conlationes" (not a single edit). I would prefer not to have users without edits welcomed (minimum: 1 edit).
    Apart from this vast majority, there are two tiny fractions:
  • Users who do perform edits, but whose edits are not too helpful. This is mostly due to the fact that these users try to create content, but have insufficient Latin language skills. Nearly always (of course there is a small number of exceptions), such users over time do not make significant progress in learning Latin, even if they stay here. As these user's attempts to create content are not too helpful, I see no advantage in welcoming these users.
  • Users who perform useful edits (perhaps by improving the content, perhaps by useful administrative edits like maintaining interwiki links). Here, I consider a welcome by a human user more appropriate than a welcome by a bot, and the rate of arrival of new such users is small enough that, in my view, it is managable to welcome them all by a regular contributor.
Thoughts? --UV 23:37, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Uhm, actually I work on welcoming it.wiki and on some small wikis of italian regional languages (as venetian): we use to welcome both sul users and local registered users, but only if they make at least a edit. This solves the first of your points. Anyway, if you feel that this issue could be better done by a human, no problem. :) I am open to work with my bot on every kind of task you need, ok? :)--Nickanc 15:37, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I thought about some other issues i could help with:
  • i may set my bot to make some of the corrections about the ortography (changing ligaturas, for example). Could I do some tests of this issue?
  • i could help if we need mass-creation of pages (if yes, we have to talk about good methods to work with this issue)
I really want to contribute to latin wikipedia. Unfortunately, i am very slow in writing in a good latin and i have not so much time, but with bots, I think to be able to help. :)--Nickanc 19:55, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can your bot find the genera of plants & animals that were created by a bot within Wikipedia? Their code usually contains a notice like "bot-generated article," with or without the (obligatory) hyphen. If so, translating their (one-sentence, formulaic) definitions and adapting their taxoboxes might be something a bot could do. The main problem would be in their categories, which don't always match ours, but if you could do the articles in small batches—say, 25 to 50 every few days—and place them in a temporary category (designed for the purpose), a human could come in after you and categorize them. I've been reluctant to import many of these by hand, partly in hopes that a bot could do it and partly because the process doesn't improve Vicipaedia much in relation to the (human) time spent on it. IacobusAmor 13:40, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am less familiar with the detail but I definitely agree with Iacobus that automatic creation of articles about species and genera could be a very good idea. If doing this, it will be wise to plan carefully, get good information, and write readable text to fit around the specific information (for a different example, see the new asteroid articles like 3001 Michelangelo). That way, we could increase the number of pages without reducing the overall quality of Vicipaedia. Andrew Dalby 19:15, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is a good idea, but in my view, we should derive our information from a reputable source different from the English wikipedia. Greetings, --UV 19:52, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nickanc, I like your idea about tidying up some of the ligatures and so on; that's going to be very easy for a bot, very tedious for a human, and a visible (if small) contribution to uniformity. But it's not particularly substantial! As for the biological pages, is there a suitable source on line outside English Wikipedia that could be mined? If so, then pages could perhaps be generated from there. Iacobe, as the local bio-guru, do you know of any such source? Meanwhile, Nickanc, welcome to Vicipaedia, and don't hesitate to work on an article if you want; you can put the {{tiro}} formula at the head of a page to indicate you're out of practice with Latin. A. Mahoney 21:36, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We're talking about articles whose entire text will have this pattern: X est genus Y(gen.pl.) familiae Z(gen.pl.). The text will have been constructed from information already present in Wikipedia, in a human-authored article about family Z, where the genus will originally have been listed with a redlink. From the family-Z article, in addition to the lemma and the definition, a taxobox can be taken and extended to the genus-level. But all that will already have been done by an English-speaking bot, which will have inserted that fact into the code. The trick is to find such articles and adapt them to Vicipaedia's format. We wouldn't be asking the bot to write a new text, or even to compile anything. IacobusAmor 22:43, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have certainly encountered errors among the redlink lists of genera and species in en:wiki higher-level articles. When I say errors, I mean e.g. palimpsests of names some of which are (by currently accepted norms) synonyms of one another; and also misspellings and deprecated names. We know that "Wikipedia is not a reliable source", the founder says so! For building large numbers of articles it really would be better to use a source that everyone can consider reliable. I suspect we can find such sources.
For plants I have found Tropicos particularly useful, with info about the botanists as well as the species. Could it help? Andrew Dalby 09:36, 15 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(redeo) Plantae: that is a topic i am working on it.wiki (about mass-creation i have written a short guide line in italian on it.wiki it:Aiuto:Creazione_sistematica_di_voci). The principal problem is reliability. On it.wiki we are working on a specific order of plants (see it:Progetto:Forme di vita/Festival della Qualità:Operazione Cycadales) using iucnredlist database, that it.wiki life forms project found reliable (for details you may ask them at it:Discussioni_progetto:Forme_di_vita, if you write in English, you will be answered, I think latin too). Once we have the reliable source, we need to define the structure the articles would have. Then, bot!--Nickanc 21:53, 16 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anglice 'weak' =?

For the weak force (or weak interaction) in physica particularum, wikitradition has given us Vis imbecillis, but that lemma can't be right, not least because the adjective is in the wrong declension; also, this kind of weakness is meant to be the opposite of fortis, and one wonders if imbecillus (sic) serves that function better than, say, invalidus or levis. Furthermore in several related articles, is vis the best gloss for 'force' = 'interaction'? According to Cassell's, its genitive singular is wanting, and at least one text that wikitradition has given us needs a genitive singular and uses vis for it. IacobusAmor 14:42, 8 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

vis seems to be "terminus technicus" in sciences for "force" (e.g. Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica), but in my opinion we should avoid mixing it up with other concepts (energia, mutuum commercium etc.).--Utilo 15:29, 8 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sunt quattuor vires fundamentales physicae: 1. gravitas (physica), 2. vis electrica, 3. vis imbecillis (?? weak interaction = weak (nuclear) force / schwache Wechselwirkung), 4. vis fortis (strong interaction = strong (nuclear) force = color force / starke Wechselwirkung = starke Kraft = starke Kernkraft = Gluonenkraft = Farbkraft).--Utilo 15:57, 8 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
what about exilis, tenuis, gracilis? In my opinion they are more similiar to the meaning of weak in "weak force". Imbecillis makes me think of wikt:en:imbecile. In italian we use "forza nucleare debole" being debole = weak. Debole comes from latin "debilis". Maybe all my suggestions are quite original research, but i don't know books about modern physics in latin and i doubt there are so many books of this type.--Nickanc 17:06, 8 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I omitted gracilis and tenuis because they're technical terms in botany, both meaning, not 'weak', but 'slender, thin'; similarly in botany (according to Stearn), exilis = 'small, meagre, weak, thin, slender', in which weakness, again, doesn't seem to be the basic idea. IacobusAmor 15:57, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm grateful that IacobusAmor has competently taken these poor pages under his wing (being myself no physicist); I found the lemmata in physica particularum and took them up more or less assuming they were OK. I think vis probably is appropriate, and I'm not sure what would replace fortis, but I agree that debilis is better than imbecilla (and I feel silly for not noticing that imbecillis isn't the f. nom. sg.!). A. Mahoney 21:11, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, debilis looks tempting; but as to "these poor pages," I don't know much about the subjects and am just converting the words: just wait until I tackle noiselets and wavelets and singing candles! IacobusAmor 22:36, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"vis debilis" inquisii googlando: hic sunt effectus. Primus effectus dixit: "Quattuor sunt hae vires, nempe 'gravitationalis', 'electromagnetica', 'fortis', 'debilis'; quae in hoc differunt, quod diversa est ipsarum potentia." <<Debilis>> usare possumus? quid creditis?--Nickanc 13:33, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
mihi debilis melius imbecilli esse hoc sensu ( Words dat adiectivos et imbecillus et imbecillis Eodem sensu) ; proposita autem mutatio est bona.--123.192.101.224 08:49, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alicui erant dicenda ...

Haec Tabernae nostrae imago photographica est horribilis!

Argghh!

Hae fortasse meliores essent:

Quid de hac re dicitis? Mattie 19:26, 8 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tibi consentio Mattie, dum non aliae propositiones sunt iam suffragator A. quia mihi videor optime congregationem ad commercium loquendi audiendique apta effingere. --Leonellus Pons 03:05, 9 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Non est horribilis. Amo! Quia est imago de amicis loquentibus et bibentibus. Ut nos. --Robert.Baruch 02:31, 9 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Amici lepide inter urceos cerevisiae colloquentes mihi valde placent. Itaque picturam praesentem aliis propositis, licet per se iucundae sint, picturis praefero. Neander 03:40, 9 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
B-b-but the framing. The lighting. The awkward can of Pepsi in the corner. The overly busy background. The colouring. They're not talking, they're posing ... this belongs on Facebook! Mattie 03:56, 9 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ne mihi quidem mercium (sicut Pepsi) collocatio placet. Sed hilaris loci genius me delectat. Neander 14:25, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cum Matti consentio imaginem nunc in pagina impulchram esse. Et aliud addo: omnes in imagine, necnon in aliis quas Mattie nos proponit, sunt viri. Ubi sunt feminae? Fortasse una ex his:

-- quae imagines feminas una cum viris monstrant, ut hic apud Vicipaediam nos cum vobis aliis laboramus! A. Mahoney 13:25, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Profecto bene mones! Hae omnes quas proposuisti imagines mihi satis placent. Neander 13:46, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
F! F! F! Pulcherrima est et laeta :D ¶ Imagines quas posui eventum erant investigationis celerrimae... potius ad imaginis praesentis turpitudinem spectabat nuntius initialis meus, quam ad propositiones. Quomodo has imagines invenisti tu? Ego verbis sicut "pub," "restaurant," "coffee(house)," "(dinner) party" inter Communium imagines quaesivi, neque, ut videre potes, nihil optimi inveni. Mattie 16:47, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ego quoque verbis "pub" et "cafe" usa sum, etiam "conversation"; verbum "women" addi; tunc, categorias sicut "cafes in art" et "wine in art" inveniens, ibi quaesivi. Tam multae imagines apud Communia sunt, ut paene impossible sit id invenire, quod quaeras, nisi Fortuna faveat! A. Mahoney 17:06, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Iterum apud Communia scrutatus sum, modo ut viderem utrum plura invenire possem, sed incommode nunc, nihil reperto, ad scholam mihi redeundum est! Mattie 17:22, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Picturas quae sequuntur --

-- e categoriis nostris Categoria:Convivia figurata extraxi. Andrew Dalby 19:07, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ut quam vicipaediae Latinae proprias imagines habeamus has propono:

--Alex1011 20:02, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nice one, Alex! Andrew Dalby 20:59, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Addo explicationem verbalem: ego sum qui imaginem ab Alex selectam ad caput Tabernae hodiernae imposui, sed pro tempore et ad experimentum faciendum neque ad disputationem praecipiendam! Andrew Dalby 09:17, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Puto, ut monuit AMahoney, tales imagines eligi debere, quae et feminas et viros monstrent. Tales sunt: F, G, H, I, K, N, O, Q. Quodsi Tabernam nostram etiam in posterum tabernam appellare velimus, mihi quidem videtur inter G et H eligendum esse. (Num F taberna appellari potest?) Ergo, si imaginem feminas virosque in taberna conviventes monstrantem eligere velimus, G mihi maxime placeat. Neander 08:04, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm ... F maxime mihi placet, sed non est taberna, ut dixis. Quod ad G pertinet, maestior est haec. Egomet autem alias inveni picturas! Ecce:

Mattie 18:15, 15 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nunc multum proficimus! Inter has, V et X mihi praecipue placent, et H supra, vel etiam K (imago notissima). Quid censetis? A. Mahoney 20:46, 15 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

--Robert.Baruch 01:59, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alia quaestio

Quid tibi placet? Imago abstracta ut E? Imago picta ut F? Aut imago photographica recentior ut Z? (Aut fortasse imago ridicula ut Δ!) --Robert.Baruch 02:04, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Imagines photographicae mihi saltem videntur efficere, ut homines depictos putes aliquos e nobis Vicipaedianis Latinis esse, etenim cum primum Vicipaediam duos abhinc annos inveni, hanc imaginem, quam adhuc ostendimus, hoc quidem repraesentare putabam! Quinam alioquin sint ei, quos in taberna habemus nostra? Qua ratione picturam photographicae (homines neque feles monstranti) imagini praefero ego. Quod ad alias quaestiones attinet tuas, picturae (F, &c.) imaginesque ridiculae (Δ) valde mihi placent! F quod pulchra felixque est, Δ autem faceta et iucunda, ex parte quod non eius generis imaginem in Vicipaedia Latina invenire expectaveris! Satis autem sententiarum mearum: quid tune putas, Roberte? Mattie 03:04, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Salvete!

Revera! Omnino assentior tibi. Omnium imaginum expositarum a te pictura prima mihi placet centuplicato quam haec. At haec imago risum commovet :)) Commentationem pristinam non subscriptam 178.46.88.28 scripsit (178.46.88.28 conlationes) 01:51, 9 Ianuarii 2012‎.

Paper

I am expanding Liber and need to talk about what books are made of, notably paper. OK, when I say "paper" in English it covers wood paper and rag paper but not papyrus. In modern Latin I have an attested term for rag paper charta cottonea, I can easily specify charta lignea and charta papyracea, but I don't think I know any term that corresponds precisely to English "paper", because charta includes papyrus while "paper" does not. Am I right? If so, it's no problem, I can work with it, I just need to be sure I'm not making a silly mistake. Andrew Dalby 12:48, 10 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For paper in the sense 'material for writing on', Cassell's offers only charta. For 'paper made of papyrus', it offers papyrus (citing Martial & Juvenal). For paper in the sense 'material for writing on', White's offers charta (citing Cicero & Horace) and papyrus (citing Juvenal and Catullus), and in the sense 'a written document', instrumentum (citing Suetonius) and codicilli (pl., citing Quintilian); also, it has charteus 'made of paper' and chartarius 'dealing in paper'. For a piece, or scrap, of paper, Ainsworth has chartula ; for a sheet of paper, it has chartae scheda and [chartae] plagula (note the seeming backwardness of the word-order, which will excite our Neander no end); for made of paper, it has chartaceus ; and it confirms White's chartarius. Further, Ainsworth tells us that charta is 'paper', "first made of the flags from the river Nile. . . . It is taken for any material to write upon, or for a thin plate of any thing; as, ¶ Charta plumbea, a sheet of lead" (citing Suetonius, italics original). So English paper does cover papyrus, and charta does appear to be your most general word. IacobusAmor 13:30, 10 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, in some article or other (one forgets where one saw it), a link to "liber" now goes to the book-article instead of a proposed bark-article (and Vicipaedia should have an article for Liber, the deity). That's because you changed the name of the page from "Liber (litterae)" to just plain "liber." It's perhaps better to treat bark under Cortex, as suggested by Stearn's Botanical Latin, with the specific sense of 'inner bark' presumably then being cortex interior or some technical term (other than liber). IacobusAmor 13:42, 10 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I think the move was a reasonable idea, because (as you say) liber = bark can equally be "cortex", the deity is usually "Liber Pater" or vice versa, and many, many, many links point to "liber" expecting it to mean 'book'. If you do come across that stray link again, I suggest you revise it to "cortex" (or to "liber (cortex)" if you think the specific sense of inner bark requires an article): sorry. And thanks for your useful comments above. Andrew Dalby 09:49, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
charta may include papyrus, and paper may not include papyrus, but charta does include paper. charta is like a big circle containing two non-overlapping smaller circles, paper and papyrus. Perhaps the first time you mention paper in a book, you can specify what types (rag, cotton, and so on), and then just use charta more generally. --Robert.Baruch 02:30, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that seems to be the thing to do. Thanks! Andrew Dalby 09:49, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Formula:Documentation

{{Documentation}} is a powerful tool I am going to translate. The code is complicated so I am not going to give backward compatibility but I am simply going to give a new formula with all names translated, first of all parameter names but also including all depending template names and so on. So here are my suggested translations for all names I need to translate:

  • documentation -> documentatio
  • sandbox -> harenarium (see Vicipaedia:Harenarium)
  • testcases -> testificanda
  • doc (abbreviation of documentation) -> doc (please note that some formulae use "manualis" instead; nevertheless, I still prefer "doc")
  • namespace -> spatium nominale (I see this here for instance)
  • pagename -> nomen paginae
  • start box -> capsam incipe (is 2nd person imperative correct?)
  • end box -> capsam desine
  • edit -> recense
  • create -> crea

Then I need some suggestions for these English words I cannot figure out how to translate:

  • notice (I need to translate the expression "Template sandbox notice", see {{Template sandbox notice}} to see what this notice is)
  • content (I also call this the "body" of the documentation, the "main part" i.e. everything but the headers, footers, notes and the like)
Corpus. IacobusAmor 14:09, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • heading (maybe it's "header" mispelled... I use the word "header" for the meaning that this parameter has)
Caput. IacobusAmor 14:09, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • style (for HTML programmers: this is the meaning of attribute "style" in a "span" element)
Pro 'style of language', Cassell's praebet: "dicendi or scribendi genus, orationis or sermonis genus, oratio, sermo, elocutio. IacobusAmor 14:09, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
yes, but this is about typographical appearance; perhaps forma? A. Mahoney 18:30, 16 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • preload
  • purge (see {{Purge}} for instance)

I think this is all I need now... I hope I remembered everything. Can you please help? --Achillus 09:32, 11 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Acoustique

Quid est Latinum huius verbum nomen? Nobis iam est commentarium de Acustica, sed est illud lemma rectum? IacobusAmor 13:08, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

acusticus est adiectivus (humanisticus?). scientia acustica fortasse melius est. --Achillus 13:25, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Acustica lemma iustum est. Ab origine quidem adiectivum, sicut etiam mathematica, physica &c., sed omnes nominis substantivi locum optime implent. Neander 14:11, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Acoustica quoque, cum littera O? Et utra forma est melior? (Lege primam commentarii sententiam). IacobusAmor 14:30, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC) ¶ Ah, OK, nunc videmus Neandrem lemma iam emendavisse. IacobusAmor 14:33, 12 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

linguistica?

Id nomen censeo esse nomen ex sermone quotidiano conuersum in linguam Latinam. Humaniorum litterarum studiosi, qui humanistae dicuntur, hoc uerbum cum << grammatica >> substituerunt, quod proin non potest accipi, quippe quae postea in huius scientiae progressu pars scientiae ipsae facta sit. Ideo uerbum recentius usurpatum <<glottologiam>> inuicem huius uocabuli proicerem. Quid sentitis?--Martinus Poeta Juvenis 12:56, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Linguistica, licet sit verbum plus minusve novatum, tamen in litteris varie invenitur, ut puta hic apud Academiam Scientiarum Estoniae. Glottologia mea sententia pars est linguisticae (linguistica historica sive diachronica).--Utilo 15:18, 13 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Caturday!

Lolcat. Those cats get everywhere! --Robert.Baruch 14:36, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

At last we are a serious scholarly resource! (i can haz artiklez?) :-) A. Mahoney 21:25, 14 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Announcing Wikipedia 1.19 beta

Wikimedia Foundation is getting ready to push out 1.19 to all the WMF-hosted wikis. As we finish wrapping up our code review, you can test the new version right now on beta.wmflabs.org. For more information, please read the release notes or the start of the final announcement.

The following are the areas that you will probably be most interested in:

  • Faster loading of javascript files makes dependency tracking more important.
  • New common*.css files usable by skins instead of having to copy piles of generic styles from MonoBook or Vector's css.
  • The default user signature now contains a talk link in addition to the user link.
  • Searching blocked usernames in block log is now clearer.
  • Better timezone recognition in user preferences.
  • Improved diff readability for colorblind people.
  • The interwiki links table can now be accessed also when the interwiki cache is used (used in the API and the Interwiki extension).
  • More gender support (for instance in logs and user lists).
  • Language converter improved, e.g. it now works depending on the page content language.
  • Time and number-formatting magic words also now depend on the page content language.
  • Bidirectional support further improved after 1.18.

Report any problems on the labs beta wiki and we'll work to address them before they software is released to the production wikis.

Note that this cluster does have SUL but it is not integrated with SUL in production, so you'll need to create another account. You should avoid using the same password as you use here. — Global message delivery 16:21, 15 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)

Non ortus sed virtus

Hello, I'm trying to say in latin "not birth but virtue" or "not by birth but by virtue". After a bit of searching, I found this translation : "non ortus sed virtus". Do you think it is a good latin locution, or are there better ways to say this ? Thanks. --82.237.174.28 10:31, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Virtute, non ortu ? IacobusAmor 11:29, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If we're talking about birth as in lineage, and not birth as in physical biological childbearing, maybe virtute, nec generi ? (I rather like nec to emphasize the difference) --Robert.Baruch 18:24, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm for ortus. But it all depends on co(n)text. Given a sentence such as "The Book of the Three Virtues depicts a city of noble women who claim their nobility not by birth but by virtue", I'd translate Liber Trium Virtutum urbem depingit nobilium feminarum, quae nobilitatem non ortu sed virtute sibi vindicant. Neander 22:01, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

in Interrete

Sunt in multis paginis verba "in Interrete" scripta. Sitne "in Interreti" quia Interrete est verbum neutrum? Etiam sit automaton corrigere hanc error? --Robert.Baruch 18:17, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alius, qui plura quam ego sciat, amplius meliusque explicare possit, sed ut breviter dicam, non nullorum tertiae declinationis verborum, ut puta "mare" et "rete" (ergo "interrete" quoque) ablativus casu -e formatur. Mattie 18:31, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Allen & Greenough nos monent (#68, a): "Neuters in -e, al, ar, have in the ablative singular, -ium in the genitive plural, and -ia in the nominative and acccusative plural, as animăl, animālī, -ia, -ium." Etiam (#76): "The ablative in is found exclusively . . . [in] neuters in -e, al, ar, except baccar, rēte, and sometimes mare." Gildersleeve autem idioma nos offert (#385, n.1) "terrā marīque 'on land and sea'." IacobusAmor 19:51, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quod ad rete attinet, constat ablativum reti multo rariorem esse quam rete (Plaut. Rud. 913 in rete; Varro, Rust. 3.5 obiecto rete, 3.9 intento supra rete; Plin. Nat.11.81.4 a scutulato rete). Neander 21:36, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my goodness, I just realised I what wrote up there. I meant "non nullorum tertiae declinationis verborum, quorum nominativi casu -e terminentur..." D'oh! Mattie 22:22, 18 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quo in Interreti inveniamus? Voce Alta et Melissa (vide paginam nostram Melissa) (in Interreti et in Interrete)! Epistula Leonina et Latinum Podcast et Vox Latina vol 46. Quo autem in Interrete inveniamus? Certe non in fontibus aequivalentibus. --Robert.Baruch 01:44, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dixi antiquos ablativo rete potius quam reti usos esse. Certam normam non habuisse videntur. Ego constructionem in interreti non repudio, sed si in interrete scriptum esse videam, corrigere non audeam. Neander 06:19, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, nunc intellego quod dicis. --Robert.Baruch 13:19, 19 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Language support group for Latin

The Wikimedia Foundation has brought together a new team of developers who are dedicated to language support. This team is to support all the languages and consequently it is not realistic to expect that the team members can provide proper support for your language. It is for this reason that we are looking for volunteers who will make up a language support team.

This language support team will be asked to provide us with information about their language. Such information may need to be provided either to us or on a website that we will indicate to you. Another activity will be to test software that will likely have an effect on the running of the MediaWiki software. We are looking for people who clearly identify their ability. Formal knowledge is definitely appreciated.

As much of the activity will be concentrated on translatewiki.net, it will be a plus when team members know how to localise at translatewiki.net.
Thanks, Gmeijssen 07:39, 20 Ianuarii 2012 (UTC)[reply]