Disputatio Usoris:Neander

Salve, Neander!

Gratus in Vicipaediam Latinam acciperis! Ob contributa tua gratias agimus speramusque te delectari posse et manere velle.

Cum Vicipaedia nostra parva humilisque sit, paucae et exiguae sunt paginae auxilii, a quibus hortamur te ut incipias:

• Ops nexusque usoribus novis ( ca,  de,  en,  es,   ia,  it,  ru,  ro,  no,  tl,  eo)
• De orthographia ( ca,  en,  es,  tl)
• Enchiridion interpretis (Anglice scriptum)
• Taberna
• Lexica Neolatina
• Lexica Latina interretialia
• Fontes nominum Latinorum ( ca)
• Fontes nominum geographicorum
• Index formularum

Si plura de moribus et institutis Vicipaedianis scire vis, tibi suademus, roges in nostra Taberna, vel roges unum ex magistratibus directe.

In paginis encyclopaedicis mos noster non est nomen dare, sed in paginis disputationis memento editis tuis nomen subscribere, litteris impressis --~~~~, quibus insertis nomen tuum et dies apparebit. Quamquam vero in paginis ipsis nisi lingua Latina uti non licet, in paginis disputationum qualibet lingua scribi solet. Quodsi quid interrogare velis, vel Taberna vel pagina disputationis mea tibi patebit. Ave! Spero te "Vicipaedianum" fieri velle!

--Xaverius 08:20, 26 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)

Pro tuis conlationibus bonis ad meas paginas, gratias tibi ago, Neander!Rafaelgarcia 03:08, 21 Maii 2007 (UTC)

Et ego gratias pro gratiis tibi! --Neander 22:33, 21 Maii 2007 (UTC)

Edith Piaf

grazie mille per il suggerimento. Buona serata da Lugano--Massimo Macconi 20:18, 27 Maii 2007 (UTC)

auxilium pro

You have certainly missed Vergil.

nobis ad belli auxilium pro nomine tanto exiguae uires -8.473

--Ioshus ^(disp) 12:56, 6 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

I'm not arguing for this construction, btw...I'm just arguing there is nothing about it that warrants us throwing it out a priori. I'm much more concerned with editio...--Ioshus ^(disp) 12:58, 6 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Ioshe. Sent my answer to your discussion page. Maybe I should've put it here. --Neander 21:05, 6 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

And a good answer it seems to have been. I concede that I don't have a classical source besides this, and I nimis raptim read the Vergil, last night (I never had a taste for Vergil, I confess). Such as that is, let's indeed find a better construction. And let's do something about that editio, as well...--Ioshus ^(disp) 23:29, 6 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Whitaker

Whitaker is the author of Words. Or was that question rhetorically meant? --Rolandus 06:54, 9 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Apus apus

The {{latinitas}} template should stay in the page, however, according to the level of latinitas it might be {{latinitas|-7}} to {{latinitas|+5}}. You can change the level. We have no article with latinitas = +5 and just a few with +4: Categoria:Latinitas +4 (4). --21:41, 10 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Done, recte I hope. Bureaucracy isn't my strong side. --Neander 22:37, 10 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

The effect is ok, although there is a "procedure" ... but don't mind in this case. The idea is to have a Vier-Augen-Prinzip. ;-) --Rolandus 04:47, 11 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

De Vamba rege

Xaverius Neanderi s.p.d.

Thanks for your edits in the article on king Vamba and I had two coments about it. Firstly is about grammar, I understand all the edits except for the very last one, changing rexisset for regeret. As it is a ne clause, the verb has to go in the subjunctive and I used the pluperfect so it matche the rest of tenses in the sentence, and that is why I used rexisset. Why the imperfect?

The second matter is sort of related to what Rolandus was teling you above. Vamba had a {{latinitas}} template with non censa but with your edits, the grammar has been checked and you should have added {{latinitas|1}} which is "inspected once". The whole objective of the latinitas templates is to know the level of latinitas, so always remember to add the {{latinitas}} template whenever you create an article or rate the current {{latinitas}} when you do some edits!--Xaverius 08:47, 12 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

If you say Vambam totonderunt ..., ne Vamba rexisset, that would imply a retroactive cancelling of his kingship ('lest he could not have been king' - kind of damnatio memoriae), but insofar as I understand, Vamba was poisoned in order to prevent him from continuing his kingship. If this is the case (as I surmise it is), ne regeret is the right form. (By the way, I suggest you say ne regeret instead of ne Vamba regeret This would be better stylistically.)

Thanks for pointing out this bureaucratic shortcoming of mine. Trying to be better every day even in these technicalities. And congratulations for the anniversary! --Neander 15:17, 12 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation!--Xaverius 10:40, 14 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Carolinae Veteris

Hi Neander! I was just wondering where the "eris" part came from? (Presuming you made that edit.) I would have thought it was just "veti" --Harrissimo 20:39, 15 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Respondi in pagina disputationis Harrissimi. --Neander 21:22, 15 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that was very helpful (and interesting), so should I use situ or siti? --Harrissimo 21:33, 15 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Saravus/ foto dell'ansa del fiume

prego. L'ho trovata sulle altre wiki. Ciao --Massimo Macconi 04:59, 21 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Very short stories

Sic: recte me monuisti. Restitui formam tuam "narratiunculas". Gratias, ut saepe! Andrew Dalby 21:03, 30 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

Caro Neander,

perché hai tolto l'immagine dalla pagina Lingua Arabica, a me sembrava bella, non era corretta? Ciao--Massimo Macconi 04:13, 6 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

capita...

ogni tanto magari per la fretta, ciao --Massimo Macconi 20:02, 6 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Lingua Arabica

Neander, it looks as though you deleted some of the interwiki links on this page and also changed Categoria:Linguae Semiticae (which is correct) to Categoria:Linguae. Am I right there? I'm sure there must have been a good reason, but I can't guess it! Andrew Dalby 20:37, 6 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. Strange things occasionally happen in editing. But I won't ever use the adjective "Neanderthalian" in connection with you ... Andrew Dalby 18:15, 7 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Praemium

Gratulationes, Neanderi! Propositus es Clipei Latinitatis. Vide Vicipaedia:Praemia Vicipaedianis--Xaverius 21:55, 6 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Burgenland

Please see Disputatio:Gradiscia. Thanks! --UV 21:46, 9 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Finnish Regions

Hyvää iltaa Neander! Thank you for making the effort of finding out those Etymologies and Sources, they will help me a lot in the upcoming weeks. Olet todella ystävällinen! --Harrissimo 22:03, 13 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry Neander, I couldn't understand... Puhun vain vähän suomea :( --Harrissimo 10:21, 14 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhhh, Thank you very much :) --Harrissimo 19:00, 14 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Suomalaiset paikannimet!

Salve Neander! Would I be right to say that -koski on the end of a Finnish city name would mean river rapids, in Latin Catarrhactes? and in an example such as Jämsänkoski would I translate it as something along the lines of Catarrhactes Iamsae? --Harrissimo 23:04, 14 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Hi Neander! I suggested Catarrhactes because William Whittaker said it was rapids. It's probably not a very suitable/widely used word though because it was in brackets at the end of the list. I posted something in the Taberna. I think you're probably right though about including non-latin letters if a source can't be found. --Harrissimo 21:30, 15 Iulii 2007 (UTC)

Gratias

Gratias tibi pro tuo auxilio recenti ad paginam "frequentia" meliorandam! --Rafaelgarcia 02:23, 12 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Fenni/Finni/Fennicus/Finnicus

Do you know the differences? You use Fennicus in your usor page, but there was usor:Finnicus. Are they adjectives - English: Finnish/Finnic? The internet says Fenni has links with the Sami people. Is Finni, therefore, better (eventhough Finnorum gets less Google hits than Fennorum)? --Harrissimo 23:51, 19 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Gratias

Gratias tibi. Multum disco e tuis mutationibus semper.--Rafaelgarcia 02:31, 1 Octobris 2007 (UTC)

Diminutivum

Notulam addidi in disputatione de suffixo diminutivo. Opinionem tuam libenter legam! --Fabullus 14:36, 20 Octobris 2007 (UTC)

Quomodo te appellem diminutive? Neandellus an Neandrulus? Quid opinaris? In TLL neutrius formae exempla inveni. Videlicet quod scripsi pertinet ad nomina omnia in -ander exeuntia, ut Alexander, Menander, Leander, necnon nomen Meleager. Vale, --Fabullus 11:51, 8 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

Mathematica

Neander. the reference you added does not seem to support the translation of the greek μαθηματική as 'disciplina (artium liberalium)'. Since the reference only gives an ancient latin definition of mathematics not necessarily what the greek word means, it would seem to be better included as a reference supporting Isidorus's desciption of mathematics. Indeed it only seems to repeat what Isidorus says, or vice versa. (Does it indeed mean in greek the same as in ancient latin?) I put Isidorus' description in an historic context in the second paragraph because to my knowledge no one in a modern context would ever consider either astronomy or music as part of mathematics. Thus, it only makes sense to consider this information in a plainly historical context.--Rafaelgarcia 01:40, 23 Octobris 2007 (UTC)

De locis Finnicis... iterum

Salve! Do you have the Lexicon Finnico-Latino-Finnicum? I saw that you quoted it on a talk page somewhere and I have a question about it. In the Luettelo Suomen alueiden latinankielisistä nimistä, it says that this is one of te two sources for these cities. Please could you confirm (or deny) which ones I can use here with this as a source - if you have it of course. Vale gratiasque! Harrissimo.

This Sala-Salo affair is quite strange. On the Carta Marina and the Gustavus Horn map both have "Sala" as a settlement imbetween Kokkola and Oulu! Either they have made a huge mistake or this isn't the right Salo. Then again this says that it is... Do you know of anywhere that it could have been mistaken for? Thanks for the help, Harrissimo.

IPA

Salve! As you may know, Neander, there are two conventions: [ ] for phonetic and / / for phonemic transcriptions. So I did have a reason for using / /. However, you may be right that I didn't make the best choice. I'll change it. Andrew Dalby 20:47, 10 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

I have changed it. However, I notice that the English infobox en:Template:Infobox Language makes the same choice I did / /, no doubt for the same reason. We'll see if anyone else comments. Andrew Dalby 21:17, 10 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the conventions are as you say: [...] for phonetic and /.../ for phonemic representations. But quite obviously it is phonetic representations that we're out for, the purpose being, I take it, to give an idea of how the name is to be pronounced. Basically, the purpose of phonemic transcription is to suggest the optimal orthography for a language lacking alphabetic writing (which seems to be out of the question in the present context). Martinus Neander 22:28, 10 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Martine, in this multilingual context it makes no sense to talk of a phonemic representation. Definitely [ ] is correct. Andrew Dalby 10:06, 11 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

Subregions

Salve! Do you know of a suitable latinisation for the third-level subregions of Finland? I thought maybe subregio could be pushing it and there are various ways of expressing it in the other languages which all seem slightly different. The Swedish, Italian (distretto = pagus), German (Verwaltungsgemeinschaften ≈ Comitatus (which I don't like myself because it could make confusion with the old counties) ) or the no-nonsense Czech seutukunta are these ways. From w:en:World administrative divisions third level, you get the impression that most third-level divisions across the range are municipia (but that is, of course, Finland's fourth level). The one which aren't give Districts (districti, pagi), Arrondissements (arrotundimenta), Communes (communia) and Elderships (just weird). Quid cogitas? Harrissimo 02:18, 29 Decembris 2007 (UTC).

I'm not too good in matters geographical and administrative, but having done some research, I've come up with the following:

Divisiones administrativae Finniae 532 sunt:

• Provinciae 6 (provincia: Fin. lääni; Sv. län)
• Regiones 20 (Regio: Fin. maakunta; Sv. landskap)
• Regiones oeconomicae 74 (Regio oeconomica: Fin. seutukunta; Sv. ekonomisk region)
• Communia 432 (Commune: Fin. kunta; Sv. kommun)

Hope this helps! Martinus Neander 03:43, 29 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

It does! Thanks a lot, Harrissimo 10:18, 29 Decembris 2007 (UTC).

Gratias

Gratias tibi ago pro parte articuli " pater noster" in graeca lingua.--Marc mage 23:13, 6 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)

Gratias etiam ago ego propter tua auxilia, Neander, specialiter recenter de pagina Analysis. Sola una sententia correxi quia sensum aliquanto perdidisti--Rafaelgarcia 02:16, 19 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Pagina de Andromeda

Salve, amice! Volo loqui latine (si memini latinum ex lyceo!). :-) Tibi dico me cepivisse textum ex pagina tua de Euripidis Andromeda, et scripsisse in pagina italiana (qua ipse creavi). Cepivi "Editiones" et "Alia scripta". Spero quaestiones non esse, de isto facto.

Quomodo loquor latine? :-)

Borgil, ex Vicipaedia Italiana

P.S.: Tibi scribendum est Euripidis Andromedam in pagina discretiva Latinae Vicipaediae.

Salve, Borgil! Aliis rebus occupatus nunc demum nuntium tuum legi. Videas quaeso responsum meum quod in tua pagina disputationis] scripsi. --Neander 18:39, 4 Iunii 2008 (UTC)

De tabula dialectorum Graecarum

Noticing the improvements to the page Lingua Graeca antiqua I asked Harrissimo if he could improve the map of dialects, and he promises to work on it (see his talk page. So if you wanted to suggest to him how to letter it, or any other adjustments, now's the time! Andrew Dalby 11:26, 17 Iunii 2008 (UTC)

Been very busy a few days working on a paper. I now realise the map I inserted had German names for dialects. It would be nice indeed if Harrissimo could improve the map. As to how to letter the numbers, I suggest the following:

1-2: Aeolica || 3: Thessalica || 4: Boeotica || 5: Ionica || 6: Attica || 7-14: Dorica || 15-18: Caurina || 19-21: Arcado-Cypria.

Thessalica and Boeotica are of course Aeolic dialects, but because they're quite heavily mixed with NW dialects, it may be advisable to quote them by separate names. For "NW dialects", I use dialecti Caurinae, faute de mieux. I'm open for better suggestions. Martinus Neander 03:53, 19 Iunii 2008 (UTC)

De translatione terminologiae mathematicae

Hallå/Terve/Salve, φίλτατε Né-h̩₂nd-re. I finally got to reply to the message you left in paginam disputationis rei meae: incubator:Talk:Wp/grc/Θετόν. There you can also find a list of latin "neologistic" translations of mathematical notions I intend to use in my forthcoming Vicipaedian articles, so if you take a look at it and have any objections, you can make them known to me through any of my talk-pages. Thanks for your attention. Ἐς ἀεὶ εὐδαιμόνει! Omnipaedista 21:56, 19 Iulii 2008 (UTC)

I'm having difficulties with some specific terms such as membership and elementhood. Do you have any opinions on how these could be properly rendered to Latin? Or I should I rather try consulting Rafaelgarcia on matters of technical terminology? Omnipaedista 19:19, 17 Decembris 2008 (UTC)

Χαῖρε, not being a mathematician, I feel almost total insufficiency in front of those abstractions. WRT "elementhood", I feel some temptation to say "elementitas, -atis" which is an unattested word, as far as I know. But because I favour dynamic translations, I'd rather see terms used in real sentences. For example, I snatced the following sentences (and edited them a bit) somewhere from the net: "Lavoisier's conception of elementhood is essentially the same as that of Mendeleev" which I'd render as "Lavoisier de natura elementorum reapse idem sensit ac Mendeleev." And "Lavoisier's conception of elementhood consisted of elements as simple substances and the rejection of elements as principles or basic substances" as "Lavoisier elementa intellexit simplices esse substantias eaque negavit principia esse vel substantias fundamentales." But maybe my translation loses some essential information? WRT "membership", the first word that comes into mind is "sodalitas" but I'm not at all sure about this loaded term. Maybe Rafael could indeed help? --Neander 20:59, 17 Decembris 2008 (UTC)

Sodalitas evokes personhood too; perhaps participatio would be better to catch the abstract sense of mere belonging; I like the way you avoid the abtract noun above, though. Ir would be better latin. --Rafaelgarcia 03:40, 18 Decembris 2008 (UTC)

Steppenwolf

Ave Neander, cur in pagina de Arminio Hesse conscripta Steppenwolf reddidisti 'canem latrantem'? Fac valeas. --Fabullus 05:43, 12 Octobris 2008 (UTC)

Salve Fabulle! "Lupus desertorum camporum", licet e lexicis sit, mea quidem opinione aliquid incommodi habet; itaque breviorem elocutionem invenire conatus ad "canem latrantem" perveni (vel potius erravi), quo nomine (reapse ridiculo!) Steppenwolf a biologis appellatur. Sed facile concedo hoc nomen parum esse aptum ad librum Hesseanum Latine reddendum. Si melius nomen invenies, eo, amabo te, meá inventiunculá deletá utere. Fortasse "lupus desertorum"? --Neander 20:09, 12 Octobris 2008 (UTC)

Nesciebam, fateor, hoc animal a biologis Canem Latrantem appellari. Tantum novi illud "canes latrantes non mordent", sed hoc animal latrare et mordere puto. Lupus desertorum placet. Vale, --Fabullus 12:48, 15 Octobris 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Vide etiam quod hac de re scriptum est hic. --Fabullus 14:41, 16 Octobris 2008 (UTC)

Italianus

Dear Neander, I have changed again your sustitution of the verb Italicus with Italianus. Actually my dictionary gives for Italiano Italicus or Italus but never Italianus Castiglioni, Aloisius; Mariotti, Scaevola. Vocabolario della lingua latina, latino-italiano, italiano-latino. Quarta editio a Petro Georgio Parroni curata (Taurini, 2007).. Ciao--Massimo Macconi 18:24, 14 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Dear Massimo, I don't know the virtues of Castiglioni-Mariotti. Does it contain Neo-Latin vocabulary? Somewhat ironically, the article on Castiglioni-Mariotti is categorised as [[Categoria:Lexica Italiano-Latina]] and [[Categoria:Lexica Latino-Italiana]]. On the adjective Italianus, see this. And, by the way, the Lexicon Finnico-Latino-Finnicum by Reijo Pitkäranta does give Italianus. Vale, Neander 19:11, 14 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Italianus is also often used in the Latin periodical Ephemeris [1] --Fabullus 19:26, 14 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Massimo asked me to comment. It is true that older Latin does not seem to have the term Italianus, and a Google search for Italianus is not promising. However, if Ephemeris uses the word, we can permit ourselves to adopt it. In what senses, then?

The point was raised by Iacobus at Disputatio:Lingua Italica; in the discussion there, which turns on the likelihood of confusion with the ancient Linguae Italicae, I speculated on the acceptability of Lingua Italiana, and I can see the desirability of adopting such a name for the language.

Insofar as "adopting such a name for the language" entails the movement "Lingua Italica => Lingua Italiana", I fully endorse your desirability assessment. What worries me most is the homonymy that lacks a linguistic justification. --Neander 12:22, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Recte dicis. Certe constat inter omnes linguam Italianam esse linguae (Proto)Italicae filiam. IacobusAmor 17:48, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

... vel potius neptem.   :–)  --Neander 19:56, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Are you discussing also the appropriate term for Italian people? In that case, I feel doubtful whether there is a sufficient reason to change our usual term Italicus/Italici. Andrew Dalby 21:10, 14 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Given that quite a few of those "Ephemeridan" examples brought forward by Fabullus refer to Italian people, isn't it a bit precipitate to trumpet "Italianus non est verbum Latinum"? Given the drowsy coexistence between Francicus, Francogallicus and Gallicus in Vicipaedia, it's a bit surprising that Italianus should turn out to be such a nomen odiosum. Interesting. --Neander 12:41, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

As I already agreed, you and Fabullus have shown that Italianus is now a Latin word; therefore not odiosum. But I think, for such words that are used very frequently in biographical articles, it may be wise to try to agree on a preferred form: do you agree, or do you prefer free variation?

As regards "French", I think we try to use "Francicus" for people and things, "Francogallicus " for the language; no doubt some of us are drowsier than others! As regards "German", I think we try to use "Germanicus" for people and things, "Theodiscus" for the language; and I know that some don't follow this rule. As regards Italian, I think we have been using "Italicus" in all senses. Iacobus and I have hesitantly proposed "Italianus" for the language. And actually, up to this moment, I don't know what you are proposing! All I know is that you made some changes which Massimo reverted. I must admit I don't understand the practical implications of "What worries me most is the homonymy that lacks a linguistic justification". Can you put it a bit more simply? Andrew Dalby 13:20, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

I made corrections to a few articles, the Latinity of which hardly did credit to Vicipaedia. When doing that, I also happened to change "Italicus" to "Italianus", without realising that I was thereby stirring up something. Yes, Massimo reverted those changes. In fact, he did quite a lot of changes to articles which obviously also had "Italianus" (not from my pen). When watching this spectacle, nomen odiosum was the expression that offered itself as a descriptive term. /// Re practical implications, could we agree on lingua Italiana, when talking about the Italian language? If "Italianus" is too hot as an ethnonym, I'm the last to insist on using it in Vicipaedia. (If I get an irresistible prurience to use it as an ethnonym, I can always do it in Ephemeris ... :–) I'm all for the functional differentiation between "Francicus" and "Francogallicus" (of which I wasn't aware), which proves that no variation is free in the long run. --Neander 16:54, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've now studied those pages -- and noticed numerous small improvements -- As far as I'm concerned, certainly I would agree on Lingua Italiana. As to Italianus as ethnonym, I don't see that it needs to be contentious. Never mind Ephemeris: write it here, Neander! Andrew Dalby 17:09, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Could he mean that, in reference works, polysemy is bad? or that distinctions without differences are bad? I do like the distinctions between Francicus (the people) and Francogallicus (the language) and between Germanicus (the people) and Theodiscus (the language), and that's why I'd prefer to distinguish between Italicus or Italius or Italus (the people; see below, posted earlier), and Italianus (the language)—but in the real world, people apparently ignore such distinctions. Oh well. IacobusAmor 14:13, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

While agreeing with you, Iacobe, the thing I wish to emphasise is that I'm fond of polysemy and all the possibilities of expression that abundancy of forms in language affords. --Neander 17:08, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Oh, me too: we wouldn't have poetry, or even superlative prose, without it; but one feels the nagging worry that reference works may be a special case, in which significant precisions take pride of place. IacobusAmor 17:43, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

And let's remember that classically (secundum Cassell's) 'Italian' was Italicus, -a, um, and Italius, -a, -um, and Italus, -a, -um—so, with Italianus, -a, -um, we've got four possibilities. ¶ Also, for a noun, an Italian woman could be an Italis, -idis— so, Andrew, female Italian people could be Italides. :) ¶ For Austronesian languages whose names haven't previously been Latinized (or for which Latinizations exist but haven't been found), I'm using an -anus, -a, -um adjectival form of the indigenous name of the place; hence, Samoa est locus ubi homines lingua Samoana utuntur. IacobusAmor 22:09, 14 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

I think the issue is what to call the italian language: obviously the roman's never had a word for it since it didn't yet exist. So either you can go with the classical "lingua italica hodierna", because lingua italica is too abiguous, or your avail yourself with the neolatin "lingua italiana" (sort of a borrowing from Romance languages). Iacobus gives a good, fairly convincing account of the precedent for such a preference of italianus over italicus when referring to modern variant at the place Disputatio:Lingua Italica noted by Neander above. --Rafaelgarcia 14:26, 15 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

I thank you Neander for your remarks on the Italus/Italicus/Italianus question and for all other corrections . Ciao--Massimo Macconi 12:03, 18 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

De locativo nominum compositorum

Salve Neander, in pagina de Alienora Roosevelt agente locativum "Novi Eburaci" scripsisti. Equidem iam diu dubito de locativis nominum compositorum. In libro grammatico meo legi locativo numquam adiectivum derecto addidi, sed hoc potius in appositione collocari, ut exempli gratia "Romae, in urbe pulchra". Liber meus nihil tamen dicit de casibus ubi adiectivum pars nominis sit, ut "Novum Eburacum". Ipse unum tantum exemplum antiquum invenire potui: "Carthago Nova", cuius locativus varie datur. Apud Suetonium inveni "Carthagine Nova", in Periochis Livii tamen "Carthagini Nova" aut "Carthagini Novae": editiones inter se differunt - ego nescio quae versio recta sit. --Fabullus 11:55, 27 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Nihilominus, nomen in recto Vicipaediae casu est Novum Eboracum, non Novum Eburacum. Non scio an littera O aut littera U sit melior. IacobusAmor 14:09, 27 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Iusto iure, mi Fabulle, de locativo quaesisti. Mihi quidem locativus videtur obsoletus esse casus, et ideo simulac locativo usus "Novi Eboraci" scripsi, subiit mihi mentem dubitatio, an recte scripserim necne. Reapse iam in eo eram, ut caute "Neo-Eboraci" scriberem, cum memineram Tullium nostrum locativo usum "domi meae" alicubi in epistulis scripsisse. Qua insolentia (si est) animum confirmavi ad "Novi Eboraci" scribendum. Verumtamen recte videris de "Roma pulchra" praemonere, ne "Romae pulchrae" in locativo scribamus. Sed ne "Roma pulchra" nominativus quidem commendari potest, nam cum de propriis nominibus agitur, collocatio appositiva valere videtur: "Roma, urbs pulchra". Equidem tamen "Novum Eboracum" iudicarim fixam esse compositionem; id est: interest inter "Novum Eboracum" et "Eboracum, urbem novum". His dictis usque manet dubitatiuncula: Quonam modo Tullius noster de hac re iudicarit? Sint ut sunt, "Carthagini Novae" locutio illa a te allata optime videtur cum "Novi Eboraci" locutione congruere. --Neander 18:35, 27 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Dummodo illud "Carthagini Novae" ne sit commentum editorum recentioris aevi ... Aliane oppida, urbes, civitates scis quibus aetate classica nomina composita fuerint? --Fabullus 18:46, 27 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Siquidem "Novam Carthaginem" nomine composito, etiam "Novum Eboracum" dicere possumus. Quod ad locativum attinet, "Novi Eboraci" mihi peius non videtur quam "domi meae" locutio Tulliana (e.g. Fam. 10.25), quamquam facile concedo paene inusitatum esse locativis adiectiva attribui. Utcunque res se habet, iam dudum philologi recentioris aetatis consueverunt "Novi Eboraci" locativo uti, ut in recentioribus philologicorum librorum titulis apparet (si puta "Berolini et Novi Eboraci" googleitamus). --Neander 21:14, 27 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Cedo, mihi persuasum est! --Fabullus 15:32, 28 Novembris 2008 (UTC)

Gratias!

Neander, thanks for your efforts on improving Gulielmum Wordsworth! Studying your changes is giving me great pleasure, as I learn at almost every turn. (After this project, we've got completely different sets of expected idioms in other long articles I've recently done: first Alanus Mathison Turing and then Polytheismus, whose English version contains phrases that hardly make sense in English!) A few errors, like typing eo for ei, would have been caught by almost anybody eventually, but many unidiomatic (though usually grammatical) expressions can be improved only by eruditi with deeper familiarity with the language than I have. ¶ One minor question: you changed valide instillavit to perseveranter inculcavit. I'd actually compared these verbs before posting the original draft, so I wonder why inculcavit is the preferable alternative. I chose instillavit because in Cassell's its example is praeceptum auriculis (which, if applied here, I'd take for "instilled [her] rules into [their] ears"), while the example for inculcare is se auribus nostris (which, if applied here, I'd take for "inculcated herself into our ears"). To instill precepts, rather than to inculcate oneself, seemed apter in the context, but maybe that's just an inaccuracy necessitated by the examples. IacobusAmor 15:15, 2 Martii 2009 (UTC)

It's always rewarding to improve texts for people who know what they're doing and, thus, are able to learn from experience. ¶ When making the change, I was under the false impression that instillare contracts only nouns denoting liquids. Now I see that the verb can be used metaphorically as well. This being the case, the major semantic difference between praeceptum instillare animo and praeceptum inculcare animo is that the latter pictures the situation in stronger colours. There may be reason to cancel my change. --Neander 20:28, 2 Martii 2009 (UTC)

Stronger is usually better, so let's leave it as you made it! Incidentally, the pertinent passage in en:William Wordsworth is rough & obscure: "Ann Birkett, a woman who insisted on instilling tradition in her students that included pursuing both scholarly and local activities"; for this we now have Anna Birkett, magistra quae praecepta ad industriam et academicam et quotidianam pertinentia discipulorum animis perseveranter inculcavit. ¶ I may have other questions later, but today is a busy day. Thanks! IacobusAmor 14:36, 3 Martii 2009 (UTC)

Gratias multas

Gratias multas tibi ago ob emendationes varias bonasque quas inseruisti articulis meis de Fenetro Progymnasmateque. Latinitatem meam tua sub tutela crescere opto. --Thesaurus 18:10, 15 Martii 2009 (UTC)

Iam admodum bene incepisti! --Neander 19:37, 15 Martii 2009 (UTC)

Necropolis

Xaverius Neadero s.p.d. Auxilium te peto, nescius sum de declinationibus Graecorum verborum. Vide dubium meum apud paginam Necropolis. Gratias ago!--Xaverius 22:48, 26 Martii 2009 (UTC)

Radiophonia et televisio

Hallo Neander, ich habe gerade eine Kat für Hörfunk angelegt (Categoria:Radiophonia). Kannst du mal drüberschauen, ob ich alles richtig gemacht habe? Dazu zwei Fragen: Gibt es im Lateinischen einen Unterschied zwischen "Fernsehen" und "Fernseher" (Apparat), analog zu Radiophonia und Radiophonum? Und wie würdest du die Wissenschaft übersetzen, die sich mit Hörfunk und Fernsehen beschäftigt (Medienwissenschaft / simple:media studies). Danke & Gruß --Kolja21 14:28, 10 Aprilis 2009 (UTC)

Salve Kolja, auf die Kategorienfrage kann ich leider nicht mit irgendeiner Auktorität antworten, weil ich kein Intresse gehabt habe, mich einen Überblick über unseres Kategoriensystem zu verschaffen. Gegen deine Kategorie habe ich jedoch nichts einzuwenden, möchte aber wissen, ob z.B. Usor:Andrew Dalby derselben Meinung ist. Deine erste Zusatzfrage ist leichter zu beantworten. Ja, es gibt einen Unterschied zwischen 'Fernsehen' (Televisio) und 'Fernseher' (Televisorium), nur verstehe ich aber nicht, warum der letztere auf den Artikel Televisio weitergeleitet worden ist, obschon Radiophonia und Radiophonum gebührendermaßen aus underschiedlichen Artikeln bestehen. Betr. Medienwissenschaft möchte ich etwas zögernd Studia communicatoria empfehlen. Gruß,Neander 08:01, 12 Aprilis 2009 (UTC)

Danke für die Erklärung. Lesen müsste man können: "Instrumentum quod hos sonos imaginesque ostendit televisorium vocatur". Der Begriff steht ja sogar schon im Artikel, aber mein Schullatein ist etwas eingestaubt. Gruß --Kolja21 16:41, 12 Aprilis 2009 (UTC)

Sexus

Hi, Neander. Now I've happily ventured into the territory of Sexus, which bristles with (surely) horrifying attempts at scientific terminology, some of them marked with {{dubsig}}. Please enjoy this one, if you have time! IacobusAmor 15:27, 10 Aprilis 2009 (UTC)

Asking about a translation correctness

Salve, Dr.Neader~ Recently I translated a Anglice motto 'Our path leads to the Kingdom.' to Latina as "Cursus Nostra Ad Regnum Caelorum Versus.", but I'm not sure whether it is applicable. So what's your sugestion..?

Gratias again for everything.. 119.123.8.47 07:04, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC) ..! It's me.. Gesalbte 07:06, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Nostra via in regnum ducit? ~ fert? IacobusAmor 12:44, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Salve, Gesalbte. [I was just about to send this, but Iacobus was quicker.] Let's take morphology first: it should be "Cursus noster ad Regnum Caelorum Versus", because the gender of "cursus" is masculine. Notice that "ad ... versus" emphasises the direction: our "run" is to the direction of the Kingdom, or something like that. Because I do not know what this is all about, I'm not sure how "to" is to be understood. It may be of some thelogical importance, if you say "to the (gates of) Heaven" (in which case, the proper preposition is "ad") or "into the Kingdom" (through the gates, or something -- in which case, you should probably use "in" [+ accusative]). It may also be theologically significant, whether you say "Caeli" 'of the Heaven' or "Caelorum" 'of the Heavens', I don't know. But giving up hair-splitting, my proposal is: Noster ad Regnum Decursus. I prefer "decursus" which may better express the measures taken and the completion of a course. Hope this helps. --Neander 12:59, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

As your gloss recognizes, "the kingdom" in English doesn't mention any heaven, but the original post implies that heaven is in someone's mind; and since it's usually conceived as being upward, in the sky, I wonder if decursus, which basically means 'a running downward' doesn't put the wrong slant on things, so to speak. Also, your gloss is a noun-phrase, but the querist wants it to be a complete sentence, with a verb equivalent to 'leads to', for which Cassell's says classical attestations support ducit in + acc. and fert in + acc. IacobusAmor 13:43, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, having posted my reply I became aware of the fact you now make me aware of. Somehow I was stuck to the Latin phrase. If we have to translate "Our path leads to the Kingdom", your "Nostra via in regnum ducit / fert" looks fine. --Neander 14:20, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes I see a typo half a millisecond after clicking the servare button—and there's nothing to be done but wait and watch as the typo gets published. These things happen! IacobusAmor 14:32, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Gratias.!

Furthermore, are 'ducit' et 'fert' the 3rd personal singular number form of 'duco' et 'fero'?

Now I've noticed that I formally paid less attention than I should to that the adjectives should be changed to the same gender as their nouns'. Little more about this point, in Subjective+Objective+Verb kind of sentences, should the objective switch to the same gender as the subjective's? E.g. Shall I say 'Mali(nt) fructus(m) sunt.' or 'Mali(nt) fructum(nt) sunt.'?

Gesalbte 17:35, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Adjectives follow in gender the nouns to which they are attached. Nouns don't and can't normally change gender. Malus and fructus are both nouns.

When the verb is "est" there is no object. You have a subject and a complement, both in the nominative case.

When the verb is "est", the usually preferred word order is "A est B".

So, Mālī (nom. pl.) sunt fructūs (nom. pl.). Andrew Dalby 17:47, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

--

Why it should be 'nostra via' instead of 'via nostra'? Gesalbte 17:40, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Either is possible. Word order is fairly free in Latin and partly depends on the required emphasis. Andrew Dalby 17:47, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

The emphasis...so 'nostra via' and 'via nostra', which is emphasizing 'via' and which is emphasizing 'nostra'??Gesalbte 19:10, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

About the gender..What gender should an adj. use when it attaches to 2 or more nouns?
E.g. Shall we say 'filii filiaeque lumines' or 'filii filiaeque luminae'? (google gives f.)..Gesalbte 18:34, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what Google has to do with it. You need a dictionary that will tell you which words are adjectives. Lumen is not an adjective, and your phrases make no sense. Andrew Dalby 18:57, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

T T. Now I can only find Collins (Collins Latin Dictionary & Grammar)... up there I did it careless.. It should be 'filii filiaeque luces' or 'filii filiaeque luciae'?

Google sometimes can give the right anwser.. 'filii filiaeque nostrae' can find 3 results while 'filii filiaeque nosteri' can find none....Gesalbte 19:06, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Conclusion: Dear Gesalbte, it seems to me that what you need is a systematic course in Latin, which is something nobody of us can give you. Therefore, I strongly suggest you visit our Porta eruditionis which contains a lot of stuff that may be useful to you; for example, an internet-based Latin grammar. We heartily welcome people, such as you, who are interested in Latin. But the more you know Latin, the better questions you can ask. Optime valeas, Neander 20:14, 4 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Superbia et Kantius

Salve Neander, Kantius de superbia aliquid dicit? --Rafaelgarcia 00:22, 7 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Protinus dicere nescio. Si quid invenero, certiorem te faciam. (Nescio an illud sapere aude! superbiam oleat. Kantius noster asseclas sibi parere noluit sed homines, qui ipse libere cogitare possint. Sed si hoc superbiam esse credimus, nescio an totum aevum illuminationis superbire dicamus.) --Neander 10:52, 7 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Neander, you're not only improving the Latinity of Cultura: you're improving the content too! Macte! IacobusAmor 04:13, 14 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Tante grazie! --Neander 21:14, 14 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Tibiae etc.

Possum paginam Tibiae delere ut paginam meliorem immoveas. Placetne? Andrew Dalby 17:53, 14 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Sane placet! --Neander 21:12, 14 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Delevi igitur et movi. Vide Tibiae. Andrew Dalby 09:26, 15 Maii 2009 (UTC)

Iosephus Schumpeter

Nomen Latinum urbis Czernowitz/Cernăuţi/... non possum reperire. Scisne? Andrew Dalby 13:19, 7 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Ah! Sed nunc verba tua in pagina disputationis vidi. O rem ridiculam! Sine dubio bonum nomen Latinum exstat, sed quomodo reperire? Andrew Dalby 13:23, 7 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Gratias

Tack för påpekandet om habitatium/habitantes i artikeln om Vänersborg. Mitt latin har rostat en hel del de senaste åren. --Julle 19:13, 14 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Att skriva i Vicipaedia utgör ett utmärkt avrostningsmedel. :-) Skriv gärna mer! --Neander 20:22, 14 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Ja, det är lite det som är tanken. :) --Julle 20:45, 14 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Oligarchia

Much better! though the stub remains almost useless. As you saw, I left the Greek as I found it, hoping a Graecophile would come along and fix it. Other inadequate etymologies probably exist too, but how can they be found? IacobusAmor 17:44, 16 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, such a long edition history for a couple of lines. And yes, there are a lot of non-professional etymologies here and there, and Greek is often Modern Greek (ολίγο) or non-words (αρχία, which occurs only in compounds). --Neander 17:57, 16 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

My Babel number for ancient Greek is somewhere between zero and 1, so I'll trust you and others to be alert! IacobusAmor 18:02, 16 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Questio de declinatione

Salve Neader, Gratias ob correctiones tuas ad paginam Ludovicus von Mises. Demiror autem: estne Randii (2da declinatione) melius genetivum quam Randis (3tia declinatione)? Antea egomet tertia declinatione usus sum, quia nomen Rand in d desinens mihi nomen David cuius declinatio est tertia recordatur.--Rafaelgarcia 23:43, 20 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Sane iusto iure demiraris, Rafael. Verissimam veritatem nequeo "ex cathedra" dicere, nam deest mihi cathedra. :-) Sed solum id, quod ego de his rebus in opinionem accepi, explanabo: Primum, mea quidem sententia distinguendum est inter praenomina et gentilicia. Secundum, David, Michael ceteraque eiusdem generis praenomina alii, ut mihi videtur, declinant secundum tertiam classem, alii autem indeclinabilia esse censent. Norma fixa deesse videtur. Tertium, quod ad gentilicia attinet, saepe suffixo "pertinentivo" -ius (praesertim casibus obliquis) declinantur. Exempli causa dico Humium et Kantium, quorum nom.sg. nunc Hume, Kant nunc Humius, Kantius dicitur. Quae cum ita sint, equidem potius Rand (nom.sg.) et Randium, -ii, -io (casibus obliquis) declinari malim quam Kantium nostrum Kantem, Kantis, Kanti, Kante declinari. /// Hae sunt causae, quibus affectus ego Randium,-ii,-io praetuli. At ego non sum linguae Latinae papa: non dico, quomodo Rand declinari debeat; dico autem, quomodo mihi videatur declinari. Martinus Neander 01:07, 21 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Gratias, Neander, pro tua explanatione. Iuste exempla horum nominum mihi adhibes, quibus logica tua nunc mihi clara est. Plus nunc cogitabo de eo.--Rafaelgarcia 02:22, 21 Iunii 2009 (UTC)

Ateste declinabilis est

Vide [2]. :)

Vide etiam it:Deserto (frazione): paroecia latine dicitur: ECCL. PAR. INVENTIONIS S. CRUCIS DE DESERTO ATESTIS.

Vale, --Achillus 22:50, 10 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

Ave, Achille, profecto videris recte dicere! Thesauro, potissimo et opulentissimo fonti philologico, tam firme confisus sum, ut notitiam allatam non scrutarer. Nunc autem quam diligentissime inspectis locis in Thesauro allatis mihi sane concludendum est hanc rem adeo esse ambiguam, ut "indecl. n." illud Thesauri defendi non possit. Apud antiquos enim solus nominativus testatus est; Plinius (nat. 17.122) solus ablativum praebet, sed Ateste genitus quoque ambiguum est, utrum declinabile an indeclinabile sit. Quae cum ita sint, me excusans confiteor me praeceps in errorem cecidisse. Restituatur res! --Neander 00:25, 11 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

Ave Neander. Nunc Ateste denuo declinatur et hoc refert. Immo gratias tibi ago propter inspectiones tuas rebus a me additis.

Vale, --Achillus 07:25, 11 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

Gentilicius e genetivus

Ciao, Neander! ho visto che conosci l'italiano... Ho notato che in Aletrium (Latium) hai corretto Aletrii con Aletrinas, mi chiedevo in effetti come mai al posto del gentilicius in più o meno tutte le voci di città ci fosse il genetivus... ne ho prese alcune a caso: Roma, Mediolanum, Augusta Taurinorum... gentilicius e genetivus sono due cose diverse. Mi sono meravigliato che in tutte le voci si scambia l'uno con l'altro. Bisognerebbe correggere moltissime voci. --Luca P 01:38, 20 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

Videte, s.v.p., id quod scripsi hic: Disputatio Usoris:Luca P. Andrew Dalby 09:12, 20 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

Ciao, Luca! Ho risposto in Disputatio Formulae:Commune Italianum, ma in poche parole direi che conoscere il nome degli abitanti mi sembra più importante di conoscere il genitivo di un toponimo. --Neander 11:32, 20 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

Sono d'accordo con te. Ho proposto, nella pagina di discussione che mi hai segnalato, di inserire il genitivo solo nel testo della voce. --Luca P 19:24, 20 Augusti 2009 (UTC)

User page

Salve! Thank you for fixing my user page. I'm still learning how to properly arrange Latin words in a sentence and what tense endings and case endings I should use for each word. -Meganmccarty 12:03, 26 Septembris 2009 (UTC)

Mutata

Ave! Ausus sum nonnullas mutationes in hac pagina facere. Si tibi dignae videntur, quae retinentur, possumus eas (sive partes earum) administratoribus proponere. Sin aliter, eas delere facile est. S.V.B.E.E.V. ;-) --Vermondo 23:38, 8 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

Bene fecisti. Quod ad proverbium illud attinet, rationem, cur masculino genere usus sim, in symbola reddam, quam de Nulla dies sine linea adagio scribo (nondum finem feci). s.v.b.e.e.v. Neander 00:02, 9 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

("Dies irae, dies illa" = dies sine linea?...) Credere volo tibi. Fortasse quod Nikitinski de genere "diei" scripsit verumst; attamen per saecula complura (non minus quinque) sententia foemininum genus habuit, quod in auribus (fere) omnium haduc manet. Si tunc sententiam scribere volo quae proverbium commemoret, stultum minime callidum mihi videtur forma sententiae perpaucis philologis nota, ignota autem multitudini, uti. :-) --Vermondo 15:36, 9 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

Ita. Ipse quoque nunc puto me usitatá formulá usum nulla dies sine Vicipaedia scribere debuisse! Ita cogitavi quidem sed nescioquo purismo affectus formulae solitae renuntiavi. Itaque bene fecisti, cum sententiam mutasti. Per me nil obstat, quin eam (nec non alia a te mutata) administratoribus proponas. ¶ "Dies irae, dies illa" — ni fallor, de die constituta agitur (quamquam ne Filius quidem, quando sit, scit). Itaque "diem illam" puto etiam Plinio placere potuisse, licet, ut credo, "nullam diem (lineá carentem)" respuisset. --Neander 16:39, 9 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

Chronovistrum

Inter disputationes, responsum feci quaestioni tuae de meliore forma verbi chronovistri sive chronovisorii. Vale.--Bruxellensis 15:15, 22 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

Ibidem respondi. Rem recte iudicasti. --Neander 16:12, 22 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

m:Fundraising 2009/supplementary messages

Hey Neander,

I remember that you helped translate the Fundraiser's "core messages" into Latin, so I was wondering if you wanted to work on the "supplementary messages" too. The supplementary messages request is for (1) strings that were missed when the first request was created, (2) new strings, and (3) pages that we just started translating.

If you'd like to translate them, just visit the page I linked above and click the "missing" next to la/Latina. If you have any questions, feel free to reply on my Meta talk page. Thanks! Cbrown1023 03:25, 24 Decembris 2009 (UTC)

Did you ever find anyone to proofread the messages you translated? You finished translating them over a month ago, but they haven't been published yet because they're still marked as "proofread". :-( Cbrown1023 16:10, 21 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

How does one mark things as "proofread" if one proofreads?--24.183.186.151 17:52, 21 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

I'm as helpless in this as you. :-) Please, ask m:user talk:Cbrown1023. I did the same. --Neander 17:57, 21 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

Übersetzung gefragt

Hallo Neander, kannst Du mir den oberen lateinischen Text von File:2009-09-08-Theo-3b.JPG ins Deutsche übersetzen? Ich wäre Dir sehr dankbar. Ich habe in den vergangenen Monaten schon mehrere User (mit deutsch als Muttersprache und de:Kategorie:User la-4) gefragt, aber nie eine Antwort erhalten. Gruß, --R. Engelhardt 21:56, 3 Ianuarii 2010 (UTC)

Salve! Der lateinische Text ist keineswegs schwierig. Ich hoffe, daß es mir gelungen ist, den Text ohne zu viele Fehler auf Deutsch zu übersetzen. Also: "Diese (Männer), Theodor, hast du zur Liebe zum Gott und Vaterland aufgefordert. Mit Belehrung (od. Unterricht) hast du auch gelehrige Geister ausgebildet. In der Folge hat die Naturanlage und Tugend diese (Männer) in die Sterne geführt, und dir Nachkommenschaft geziemt und (dich) freut es, diesen (Männern) nachzufolgen." --Neander 23:14, 3 Ianuarii 2010 (UTC)

Salve Neander! Vielen Dank für Deine Hilfe. Ich habe Text (mit meiner deutschen Muttersprache) noch etwas verändert. Aber ohne Deine Hilfe hätte ich das nie geschafft, obwohl ich auf eben diesem Theodorianum (deshalb: oh Theodor) 6 Jahre in Latein unterrichtet wurde. Bei allen aufgeführten Personen handelt es sich um ehemalige Schüler des Theodorianum. Ich nehme jetzt diesen Text:

"Diese Männer, oh Theodor, hast Du zur Liebe an Gott und das Vaterland berufen. Mit Wissenschaft hast Du ihr Leben zudem bereichert. So hast Du ihr Talent und ihre Kraft zur Sonne geführt. Ihnen zu folgen fördert und ehrt die Nachkommen."

Nochmals vielen Dank, --R. Engelhardt 18:22, 5 Ianuarii 2010 (UTC)

ὀστοῦν

Salve Neander, Du hast zwar Recht, aber ich denke, dass es trotzdem sinnvoll wäre, das Wort im Artikel stehen zu lassen, da die pathologische Nomenklatur hauptsächlich vom Griechischen abgeleitet ist (zB: Osteochondrosis, Osteomyelitis, Osteoporosis etc.).--Aylin 12:05, 16 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

Et tu salva sis, Amphitrite! Du hast sicher Recht. Jetzt sehe ich ein, dass mein etymologischer Blickpunkt allzu einseitig war. Die griechische Form verdient seinen Platz (ich habe nur den Akzent korrigiert). --Neander 13:19, 16 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

Danke, den Akzentfehler habe ich ja komplett - sogar beim Kopieren des Wortes auf deine Diskussionsseite! - übersehen. --Aylin 22:13, 16 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

{{citatio2}}

Salve, mi Neander. Gratias maximas tibi ago ob recensiones tuas multas in labores meos. Me confiteor nuper conantem varia corrigere apud nos agitatum quidem factum esse, neglegenter ergo multa scripsisse. Hanc ob viam, verba pauca tibi dicere velim de formula vel potius formulae usu {{citatio2}}: Cum hanc formulam finximus ego et Rolandus noster, nihil superbiae cogitavimus. Variabilis in formula interpreti apta modo monstrat quem rogandum sit, si quis interpretationem qualibet causa male intelligat, nullo pacto ut nomina nostra quasi interpretes famae gloriaeve videantur. Ergo te quaeso, si multa in interpretatione mea vel alicius (scilicet in formula {{citatio2}}) mutaveris, nomen interpretis quoque mutes. Si maneat meum nomen post recensiones meas, modo sollicitor ne cogar meos errores explicare, quod me posse plus minusve credo. Si maneat post tuas, timeo ne roget quis quomodo me (re vera te) quam pulchre scripsisse, ubi quidem falsus ero. ;] Valeas. --Ioscius^∞ 23:59, 26 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

Salve et tu, mi Iosci. Gratias ago ob admonitionem tuam. Confiteor me formulas Vicipaedianas paene omnino neglexisse et nequaquam nisi necessitate coactum novas addidicisse. Qua de causa mihi non subiit animum eam de qua me admonuisti rem satis respicere. Quod ad te attinet, mea quidem opinione in Latinitate magnopere progressus es. Itaque gratissimum est tuis intervenire scriptis, si quam interveniendi causam omnino praebent. Nisi tibi displicet, nomen auctoris non mutare praefero, nam ego textum potius melioravi quam converti. --Neander 15:36, 27 Februarii 2010 (UTC)

Non vidi tuum responsum, sed eo nunc viso, gratias ago ob verba tua de me latinitate. Intelligo quoque rationem tuam in nomina in formulis non mutando. Vale! --Ioscius^∞ 12:21, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

De callis

Care Neander. Re vera forma ablativa recta matritensi est necnon matritense? Tunc permultae de cibis paginae mutandae sunt ob errorem puerilem meum. --Xaverius 12:07, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

Maeste dictu, Xavi, sed ita, recta forma (fere omnium, nonnullis exceptis) adiectivorum in casu ablativo est -i nec -e. --Ioscius^∞ 12:14, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

Tum Words mihi mentitur! Paginas omnes iam mutavi (aut credo)--Xaverius 12:46, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

In medieval Latin the distinction between adjectival and substantival declensions was often neglected. Perhaps burgensis, which is a relatively late word, was actually so declined. --Fabullus 12:53, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

So it's OK, Xaveri! From now on, you just have to speak up in favour of medieval Latin :) Andrew Dalby 13:20, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

Wink wink. ;) IacobusAmor 16:33, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

I may stay with Classical consensus for now. I've changed the pages now, and made a new one on delicious gazopsilacium --Xaverius 13:30, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

Iam antea notavi Word fidem non facere. --Neander 16:21, 4 Martii 2010 (UTC)

De infinitivis evitandis

In pagina disputionis mea respondi. --Fabullus 15:03, 22 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

Superfrigidatio

Punctum glaciei is well attested on Google (= punctum gelationis aquae). In addition, on the taberna thread (Vicipaedia:Taberna#Freezing and glaciers) I said that I was intentionally avoiding the prefixed forms congelare and conglaciare and their derivatives when the meaning is simply 'freeze'. This is actually more classical; though punctum with any form I think is a modern idiom as the ancients did not have a scale of temperature. Punctum gelationis is also attested, though much less common than congelationis. I did leave one congelationis is the article though I would prefer to change it to gelationis for standardization. Pantocrator 19:16, 25 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

I find "punctum glaciei" rather ambiguous, but the loci you've Googled up speak for themselves. So, I withdraw my scruples. I appreciate that you left one "punctum congelationis" in the text as a diplomatic gesture. --Neander 19:44, 25 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks very much (as always) for your unobtrusive improvements to Tabula Rosettana! Andrew Dalby 09:11, 14 Iunii 2010 (UTC)

I added

I added a couple of semi- or demi-semi-relevant pictures to Iosephus Schumpeter. Some people like pictures. But if you think they aren't sufficiently apposite, by all means remove them! Andrew Dalby 09:19, 30 Iunii 2010 (UTC)

Those pictures are like oases in the desert. Holocardiac thanks! --Neander 09:59, 30 Iunii 2010 (UTC)

If you have a moment

... please glance at the Latin sentences I suggested at Disputatio Usoris:Robert.Baruch#Nice to see .... They are intended to replace the hidden text in English that lurks behind the asteroid pages at present (for example 1000 Piazzia: click "recensere" to see the hidden text). Such messages ought really to be in Latin, and they had betteer be exactly right before Robert spreads them across all those pages. Andrew Dalby 11:50, 17 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

Done. --Neander 19:34, 17 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

The odd asteroid

I'm glad you're interested in the naming of asteroids! Robert has suggested categorising these names, which seems a good idea. For the "Estonia" type I was going to say "Categoria:Asteroides a locis terrestrialibus appellati". Not sure if this is the ideal Latin expression, and not sure whether to classify more narrowly (countries, towns, rivers ...) -- but I think a category page that offers a simple alphabetical list, within a very broad classification such as I've suggested, might be the handiest. Anyway, please comment! Andrew Dalby 08:45, 24 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

Well, my primary aim has been to deal with Finnish and maybe Swedish names because I think they may be somewhat easier for me to handle. I've been rather busy for weeks in writing a chapter in a book, so naming asteroids has been kind of spare time work consisting as it does of minuscule projects. I think categorising asteroid names is a good idea -- it might even serve some cultural historical project (as I wrote in Robert's discussion page) -- but I have no clear opinion about how deep the subcategorisation should be. Anyway, I suggest you say "terrestribus" instead of "terrestrialibus". Or maybe "geographicis"? --Neander 13:13, 24 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

Feldmarschalleutnant

Salve Neander, please have a look at Disputatio:Iosephus Schumpeter (Feldmarschalleutnant)!--Utilo 09:09, 7 Augusti 2010 (UTC)

Help with Latin Wikibooks logo

Hello Neander. I'm currently collecting project names and slogans as part of a logo cleanup. One of the final things that I'm missing is a translations for the Latin Wikibooks logo. Could you help me?

• Wikibooks = Vicilibri
• Open books for an open world (or "Free books for a free world" if that's easier to translate) = ?

Could you please leave reply on my Meta-Wiki talk page? Thanks in advance! Cbrown1023 disputatio 18:05, 12 Augusti 2010 (UTC)

Help:English to Latin Translation

Hello! I need help on English to Latin translation. Please visit the page User:Amit6/c-en2la11 and translate that following list of english words to Latin. If you do the translations, please do not write those here and prefer to write those on the latin section of User:Amit6/c-en2la11. --Amit6 (talk) 13:57, 18 Augusti 2010 (UTC)

syntax

Salve mi Neander! Nunc lego quam maximum de syntaxe et grammatica generativa. Velim videre nos habere plus et sine dubio meliores commentationes his de rebus (non est modo beneficentiae causa, quoque scribendo discimus =]). Maeste multa nescio describere, id est verbis Latinis. Ubinam incipiam quoque nescio, nam sunt tot categoriae apud wikipediam ut eas haud enumerare possum. Nihilominis, me putavi incepturum in c-command. Putasne verbo vulgari commandare hic uti posse? Quid de forma nominali? commandatum? Nonnulla alia vcoabula:

• government - gubernatio
• binding - ligatio?
• theoria gubernationis ligationisque?
• node - nodus
• constituent (group) - constituens/grex constituentium?
• syntax tree - arbor syntactica? arbor structuram syntacticam monstrans?

Scilicet es tu rerum linguisticarum et latinarum doctissimus homo quem cognosco, ergo consilium auxiliumque tuum hic valde desidero. Sine dubio tibi erunt multa corrigenda =]

Gratias et valeas in proxumum! -- Ioscius ^∞ 11:59, 26 Septembris 2010 (UTC)

Salve Iosci, amice audax! Quod scio, nondum quisquam grammaticam Chomskianam, agrum novalem, Latino aratro tangere ausus est. Dubito, an tibi consilia ad verborum usum pertinentia dare possim, nam constat nostrum sermonem in hac re egenum esse. Itaque novos terminos aut fingere aut mutuari cogimur. De verbis a te allatis tacere debeo, nam impraesentiarum nihil habeo quod melius esse videatur. At duarum rerum mentionem facere velim: (1) Etsi verbum Anglicum command nos illiciat ad verbum commendandi (NB: "commandare" verbum fictum est [quamquam fortasse verbis fictis hac in re opus sit?]), commendare Latinum semantice aut syntactice vix aptum sit. Imperare melius videtur, sed specie verbi Anglici dissimile est. Magnine refert? (2) "Constituent". Meá quidem opinione "constituens" paene nihil significat (aut non id significat, quod significare debeat). Re vera "constituent" paene idem significat ac pars (orationis). Sed bene scio hic de differentibus theoriis agi. Miro modo constituens mihi non placet, sed melius praebere nequeo. Pro dolor! Sint ut sunt, attento animo tuas commentationes syntacticas legam. At nunc birotam conscendam et ad labores cotidianos properabo. Vale. Neander 07:00, 27 Septembris 2010 (UTC)

Pro Anglico constituent, Ainsworth's Latinum constitutorem (Quint.) commendat ; Cassell's, partem et elementum. IacobusAmor 10:28, 27 Septembris 2010 (UTC)

Apud Quintilianum constitutor legis magistratus quidam legifer esse videtur. Cum autem nobis opus sit termino, qui rem, ex qua totum quoddam efficiatur, significet, pars sive elementum (compositorium) se commendare videntur; quin etiam, cum de sententiae partibus agatur, membrum aut incisum (cf. Cic. Or. 62.211 "quae Graeci κόμματα et κῶλα nominant, nos recte incisa et membra dicimus"; Or. 63.212 "quo pacto deceat incise membratimve dici"; &c.). Leonardus Bloomfield primus, ni fallor, termino q.e. "constituent" usus est in syntaxi structurali, cum sententias ita describere vellet, ut ex partibus/membris finitimis vel "immediatis" ("immediate constituents") hierarchice dispositis constent. Neander 15:44, 27 Septembris 2010 (UTC)

Gratias ambobus ago! -- Ioscius ^∞ 19:49, 27 Septembris 2010 (UTC)

Editor Appeals Need Translations

I want to thank you for your help translating during this year's fundraiser. The fundraiser has greatly benefited from all your contributions. Currently, the appeals from Wikipedia editors Kartika, Liliaroja, Abbas and Joan Gomà need to be translated and localized. Also some core messages need to be updated for certain languages. You can find all translation requests at the translation hub on meta and you can follow the progress of the fundraiser in real time by tracking the fundraiser statistics. Also for those of you who haven't already, you can subscribe to the translators-l mailing list for all new requests and major changes. Many thanks for your help in truly making this a global fundraiser that you can edit. schapman

Potomac

Your name has cropped up on the banks of the Fluvius Potomacus. Any comments welcome! Andrew Dalby 17:49, 27 Aprilis 2011 (UTC)

Well, I haven't anything important to add to the interesting discussion. My answer (to Ivan) was about the semantic differentiae of fluvius, flumen, amnis (according to Hermann Menge), not their respective frequency. I now did a quick research on Cicero's use of flumen and fluvius. It's quite true that flumen is more frequent by word-form count, but when it comes to his use of flumen and fluvius, respectively, as modifiers/descriptors of a proper name, fluvius appears to prevail (fluvius: 10 times; flumen: 3 times). But given that Caesar doesn't use fluvius at all, personal preferences seem to be involved. Neander 00:23, 28 Aprilis 2011 (UTC)

That's my impression too. Thanks, Neander! Andrew Dalby 08:29, 28 Aprilis 2011 (UTC)

Casus ablativus adiectivorum tertiae declinationis

Te animadverti saepissime iuvare cum quaestiones de grammatica Latina habeo in animo, num igitur tibi displiceat si aliquando te interrogo demirabar. Id rare accideret cum semper prius quaestionum mearum responsa consectarer quam te rogarem!

Plura enim volebam scire de casu ablativo adiectivorum tertiae declinationis. Desineri certa verba vel in -e vel in -i scio. Notam de hac re inveni in ista pagina Victionariana, quae origo est meae questionis: quid dicere vult "when used purely as an adjective" -- quando -e adhibendum est, quando -i?

Cupide tuum exspecto responsum. Vale! Mattie 03:28, 19 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Salve, Mattie! In participio (sicut verbi careo aliqua re 'sine aliqua re sum') de duobus modis declinandi, scilicet declinatione adiectiva et declinatione verbali, agitur. In hac sententia, homo amicis carens infelix est 'homo, qui amicos non habet, infelix est', participium carens adiectivi munere fungitur. Sin autem 'ego sum felicior quam homo amicis carens' dicere volumus ablativo comparativo usi, declinatione adiectiva usi homine amicis carenti felicior sum dicimus. Declinatio autem verbalis plerumque ad ablativum absolutum pertinere videtur. Itaque si 'Dum amicis caret ille homo, nos dolemus' ablativo absoluto usi dicere volumus, illo homine amicis carente nos dolemus dicimus. ¶ Haec regula, quamquam ubique observanda est, interdum a poëtis classicis metri causa violatur. Sed haec nobis, quippe qui pro(r)sa oratione utamur, minime curae sunt. Hanc semper observemus regulam. Utinam meae explicationes perquam academicae tibi auxilio sint! Optime valeas! Neander 01:27, 20 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

Care Neander, gratias maximas tibi ago! Tuo enim responso circiter viciens lecto conceptoque longe revoluto in animo tandem me credo intellegere :) Cum rationem declinatione verbali utendi specto tamquam esset ob verbi inopiam in 'clausula' (id est in ablativo absoluto), multum mihi sensibilem videtur simpliciter quoniam verba necessaria sunt clausulis. Gratias iterum, atque cura ut valeas! Mattie 21:41, 20 Iunii 2011 (UTC)

"As"

Salve rursus, Neander! Ut vales? Cum Latine scribo unum est problema quod saepe invenio: vocabulum Anglicum "as" (sive Francogallice "comme," etc.) exprimere nescio talibus in sententiis:

to appear in a film as [such or such character]

to use an apple as a paperweight

to write as a pastime

Vocabulum "(sic)ut" (aut quidem "pro"?) puto forsitan esse adhibendum, sed non sum certus. Quid tu dicas? Gratias ago! Mattie 19:24, 12 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Salve multum, Mattie! Iucundas posuisti quaestiones. Haec sunt mea responsa. (1) Propter similitudinem verborum Angl. appear et Lat. apparere facile fieri potest, ut homines Anglophoni dictionem X appears as Y in the film Z Latine *X ut Y in pellicula Z apparet convertant; quod quidem perperam fiat, namque in Latinitate classicae aetatis apparet ut idem fere significat atque 'appears as though (he were)'. Cum quidem as in phrasi Anglicá idem fere significare videatur atque in the role of, possumus Latine X partes Y[casus genetivus] agit in pellicula Z dicere, vel X personam Y[casus genetivus] agit (fert, gerit, tenet) in pellicula Z. Itaque fortasse Alphonsus Cuarón personam magi candelam tenentis gerit .... (2) Quod ad phrasin to use an apple as a paperweight attinet, formula generalis haec est: X uses Y as Z = X Y[casus ablativus] utitur Z[casus ablativus]; itaque Latine: X malo utitur chartarum pressorio. (3) Dictio to write as a pastime mihi videtur Latine esse delectationis causa scribere vel (suo) oblectamento[casus dativus, i.e. dativus finalis] scribere; vel sicut Cicero idiomatice dixerit: animi causa scribere. Cura ut valeas, Neander 05:49, 13 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago, multum haec me adiuverunt. Vale! Mattie 01:09, 14 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Satyricon

Vide, amice Martine, id quod tandem in pagina Satyricon scripsi de titulo huius operis, et corrige si necesse sit! Andrew Dalby 09:32, 14 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Initium rescripsi (spero ne nimiá licentiá!) rei explicandae causa. Si quid minus feliciter dixi, Andrea amice, in melius reddito. Neander 13:44, 14 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Multo melius. Nescio cur tantas res in parentheses includere solemus :) Andrew Dalby 15:18, 14 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Latin is about to make me cry, so this one's in English!

I hope these inquiries of mine don't get annoying. If ever you feel like asking for something back, I shall do my best. I can draw pretty well!

Now, I understand the perfect subj. in Latin's somewhat wishy-washy, as in the Potential:

A present or future potentiality is expressed with either the present or perfect subjunctive. A past potentiality is expressed with the imperfect subjunctive, though the perfect subjunctive is occasionally used. (from here)

but I was reading my Harrius Potter and came across a sentence with a Result Clause where the perfect was used, and not the pluperfect that I'd have expected:

Dolor capitis Harrii tam acer erat ut in genua ceciderit.

I can't find anything anywhere about the perfect being a one-size-fits-all in Result Clauses (as it is in the Potential, apparently). Since this is a past event ("erat"), doesn't this have to be either imp. or pluperfect - and since Harry fell (as opposed to "was falling"), doesn't it have to be pluperfect? This is confusing! Mattie 20:20, 19 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Well, "don't you cry tonight!" (quoting from Guns 'n Roses, tho w/out further context :–) ). I'm afraid the grammar you're referring to isn't too helpful in this matter. As it appears to me, you quoted Potential Subjunctive (which is about independent clauses), although the sentence Dolor capitis Harrii tam acer erat ut in genua ceciderit contains a dependent consecutive clause (Result sentences in the grammar). What the grammar doesn't tell is that, in ut consecutivum, the tempus is free in the sense that it may correspond to the respective tempus in an independent clause. The Latin sentence quoted by you is perfectly correct in this respect, describing, as it does, the result that happened as a matter of fact ('. . . in genua cecidit'). It'd have been possible to say Dolor capitis Harrii tam acer erat ut in genua caderet, but this would have been a bit ambiguous, because caderet could express both past factuality and past potentiality of the result. Your question was a good one — obviously too good for a grammatica interretialis. Neander 13:17, 20 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

I quoted the Potential because it was an example of subjunctive not being particularly strict about which tense to use - the sentence was confusing me because it wasn't Potential, and yet the subjunctive seemed to be doing whatever it wanted, if that makes sense (: I hope it came through that I was joking about crying. Thanks again for helping me out! Mattie 17:18, 20 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

According to Ainsworth, the idiom 'to fall upon one's knees' is in genua procumbere. IacobusAmor 18:04, 20 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

True enough. But I'd still like to defend in genua cadere in this context. Cadere is what happens involuntarily to a person, while in genua procumbere tends to involve a voluntary or at least controlled act, describing, say, milites going down to a kneeling position to beg the victor's mercy and the like. Cadere is a strong verbal expression, apt to describe workings of dolor. Neander 19:09, 20 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

OK, but Caesar's frumenta imbribus procubuerant doesn't seem all that voluntary or controlled, at least on the part of the hapless frumenta. :) IacobusAmor 01:56, 27 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps the key idea behind procumbere lies in the root cumb, as in recumbent, succumb,etc., all these words carry the idea of yielding, giving in, laying down, or leaning on something, out of weariness, desire for rest, inertia, or simply due to giving up. Those motivations and causes are simply absent in cadere. As to the "fruit falling to the ground in capitulation to the rains", that subtlety of meaning is possible to convey in fewer words in latin.--123.192.69.44 05:52, 27 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your involuntary hospitality, Neander! It isn't fruit, it's wheat or barley, so it doesn't so much fall to the ground as submit to the compulsion to recline. This is exactly what happens if there is unseasonal heavy summer rain: a serious matter for the farmer now, just as it was then. Andrew Dalby 08:37, 27 Augusti 2011 (UTC)

Gratias!

Thanks for the improvements in Morpho! If you have a moment, I'd be interested to see what you'd do to the translation of Wallace's remarks in Ornithoptera croesus. For reference, the (English) original is preserved in a footnote. IacobusAmor 11:47, 6 Septembris 2011 (UTC)

Another tricky passage, using concepts that Cicero never imagined, is in the description of Troides magellanus, where, if you'd like to touch it up, you'll be pleased to find the genitive Morphus. ;) IacobusAmor 18:10, 7 Septembris 2011 (UTC)

Iricolor

Isn't the first element of a compound usually the stem? Why wouldn't it have been iridicolor, with the stem as seen in iridium, iridectomy, iridescence, iridology, and iridosmine? IacobusAmor 18:10, 7 Septembris 2011 (UTC)

Well, in Greek, iris was a heteroclitic word, which means that it had two stems, viz. iri- and irid-, and thus a mixed declension: iris (nom.sg.), irin (acc.sg.), iridos (gen.sg.), iri (voc.sg.), which were borrowed into Latin form-wise: iris, irim, iridis, .... (The rationalised acc.sg. iridem isn't attested until late Latin.) So, iris was a two-stem noun in Latin, too; and iri-color was formed on the vocalic stem. Neander 22:54, 7 Septembris 2011 (UTC)

modus articulandi

Salue, Neander. Quid signifiat "plicis", (plicus, plex, plica ? )? Non inveni hoc verbum in meo vocabulario. --Marc mage 23:11, 28 Octobris 2011 (UTC)