Disputatio Formulae:Capsa hominis Vicidata

Ratio[fontem recensere]

This formula requires no local parameters: it produces a biographical infobox drawn from information at Wikidata. It has so far been introduced on pages that contained an old biographical infobox (or hidden data apparently intended for an infobox). It can be added to any biographical page, and it can be removed if editors don't want it.

It requires Formula:Capsa Vicidata, which produces the layout

This is work in progress. It already makes visible most of the information that was previously visible in the old infobox, and sometimes more, but here's how to make it even better.

If a visible parameter shows a number instead of a word (e.g. "Q14159"), go to the Wikidata page (linked at "Vicidata" at the top of the infobox). First check that your active language is "Latina", and, if not, change to it. Now find the term concerned (e.g. "Q14159") and click directly on it. Notice that the top line of the page you now see is blank: it has no Latin label yet. Insert the appropriate Latin name or word, and save it. If it is a proper name, e.g. a place name, and you know no Latin form for it, insert the standard or native name. (If you have difficulty, ask here for help.)
If a parameter visible on other similar infoboxes is absent or empty in the one you're interested in, go to the Wikidata page (as above), add a statement giving the correct information, and save it. (If you have difficulty, ask here for help.)
If a parameter or group of parameters that would be useful is not yet allowed for, ask here for it to be added.

The formula is not protected. Anyone can edit it, but, if you do, please test the results carefully and revert if your new version doesn't work. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:33, 14 Februarii 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gender[fontem recensere]

I'm not sure we can do something about this from here, but just in case: The infobox shows the label text for occupation and position held, which often is a generic masculine, while the box is of course on a specific indivual and thus not generic at all. That's not nice where the person in question is a woman. A lot of Wikidata items have a statement "female form of label" ("forma feminina notationis" - there is one for the male form as well, but less used). Ideally, we would be taking the text from that statement based on the indicated gender and only if there is no such statement the text of the label. Can we reprogramme this or is it something that would have to be done at Wikidata? Sigur (disputatio) 20:42, 15 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you name a few example pages? I don't quite grasp how this problem shows up in our boxes. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 22:10, 15 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just naming labels for which there actually are female forms in Latin entered in Wikidata (a lot are lacking): Paula Abdul is said to be musicographus, Guenevera Tunberg is said to be scriptor, Diana Abbott is said to be politicus. (You have to click on "Officium" in the infobox to see it.) In all three cases, Wikidata has the necessary information to create the feminine forms instead. But as I said, I don't know how this could be implemented and whether it's easy to do. Sigur (disputatio) 22:55, 15 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I fear that this is not possible without Lua modules (see d:Wikidata:How to use data on Wikimedia projects), and no one of us is able to create or maintain Lua modules. I do hope that someday there will be centrally maintained templates and modules, so that such complicated things do not need to be maintained on a per-wiki basis, but I do not know whether/when this will happen. Greetings, --UV (disputatio) 23:58, 15 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the examples. When I woke up at 07:00 I had a clearer sense of the problem anyway! UV is right, I'm sure, but (so it seemed to me by about 07:30) there is a direct approach to this and it's in our hands.

We have chosen to write in a language that is not going to change to reflect current fashion, unlike all the others. And we're working at moderate speed, without wasting any time. So we don't want to take rapid steps towards a two-gender solution when, within a couple of years, all those other languages will be forced into a multiple-gender solution.

The problem isn't really at Wikidata: it's our pagenames for articles about "munera". They are (naturally) entitled "politicus" etc. in the default masculine form, in the usual other-language way. But they don't have to be. It could be "munus politicum" etc.: better options may occur to others. We should decide on a new pattern, apply it, and not forget to change the label at Wikidata.

To take my suggested form as example, for the pagename "munus politicum" we might give the label "politicum" at Wikidata. The result we would see in a capsa would be e.g. "Munera: politicum, iuridicum, mercatorium" for typical politicians. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:04, 16 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You mean neuter adjectives where possible (to match "munus" and "officium")? And otherwise abstract expressions, I guess. We could keep the gender-specific words in the statements (+ as aka), e.g. label: cantus; male form of label: cantor; female form of label: cantrix. Sigur (disputatio) 12:34, 16 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's exactly the way I was thinking. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:50, 16 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, shouldn't we continue this discussion at the Taberna then? It goes well beyond infoboxes. Sigur (disputatio) 14:11, 16 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

de scriptoribus linguae Latinae[fontem recensere]

De scriptoribus linguae Latinae vide

--UV (disputatio) 20:34, 20 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Atque Perseus.

Bene erit, si haec in capsam inserentur. — In Vicidatis his omnibus nomina Latina adderem, sed nescio, quomodo ID/identifier dicam, num identificator? Demetrius Talpa (disputatio) 11:01, 21 Martii 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Et alios, e. g. d:Property:P10382. Vide etiam d:Template:Ancient world properties. --UV (disputatio) 00:38, 1 Martii 2022 (UTC)[reply]