Disputatio:Seru Epenisa Cakobau

E Vicipaedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Wikimedia Community Logo.svg Seru Epenisa Cakobau fuit Translatio Hebdomadalis.

Latinizing names is a vexed question, but I suggest that something like this might be better than what's there now:

Ratu Seru Epenisa Dacombau (Lingua Vitiense Cakobau). . . .

Fijians spell it Cakobau, but using that spelling in a Latin context will mislead most readers. Fijian C is pronounced like the "th" in English "there" (ASCII IPA /D/); Latin would probably have represented this sound as D, or conceivably T or TH. The usual Latin letter for the sound of Fijian K is C. Fijian B is prenasalized, and therefore sounds like /mb/. So putting it all together, I'd guess an ancient Roman, on hearing the word, would have written the name down as Dacombau, or conceivably Tacombau or Thacombau.

Further: Using both C and K in the same Latin word looks weird.

Also: Epenisa is the Fijian pronunciation of the English name Ebenezer. Should the article give an indication of the English? If so, how? IacobusAmor 01:03, 19 Augusti 2006 (UTC)

Well, If Epenisa = "Ebenezer" then presumably we would want to Latinize it, as we do with other given names. Of course, when the name Ebenezer shows up in the Bible, it's as the name of a rock (the name means "rock of help" in Hebrew), and the Vulgate bible translates instead of transliterating it: tulit autem Samuhel lapidem unum et posuit eum inter Masphat et inter Sen et vocavit nomen eius lapis Adiutorii dixitque hucusque auxiliatus est nobis Dominus. That said, I bet if I weren't too lazy to look, I could find examples of Ebenezer being used as a personal name in later Latin documents.
As for Cakobau, wow, thanks for the linguistic info. IPA [ð] should definitely be Latinized as d, not t or th. But we have a problem: since the usual policy is to leave surnames unlatinized, and since the original language is written in the Roman alphabet, we would be expected to leave it unchanged (even with the k). I really like Dacombau, but I'm not sure if we should fly in the face of that policy, given how hard it is to convice newcomers to follow it already. What do you (and others) think? --Iustinus 01:20, 19 Augusti 2006 (UTC)
Another possibility for that sound is z. Cf. the widely varied classical spellings of the Persian provice of Drangiana: Sarangae, Drangene, Drangiane, Zarangae, and so on. Curiously the Old Persian name of the province is Zranka, no indication of a dh sound there, even though OP probably had it. Just not in this position, I think. --Iustinus 02:13, 19 Augusti 2006 (UTC)
What about adding something like (spelled like "dacombau") to "Cakobau"? --Roland (disp.) 06:49, 19 Augusti 2006 (UTC)
What about just putting an IPA representation, and adding a note on Vitian pronunciation of the latin alphabet? I agree with Iustinus that we should honor our own policy of not latinizing surnames written with roman letters. I think IPA is our best bet. Whatever the proper form of Ebenezer is we should probably translate the middle name.--Ioshus Rocchio 18:38, 19 Augusti 2006 (UTC)
Consentio. IPA melior est. --Roland (disp.) 20:10, 19 Augusti 2006 (UTC)