Disputatio:Scientia (ratio)

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"Scientia" Latine numquam quod sciam -- neque apud recentiores et recentissimos -- "science" significat, sed potius "knowledge." "Natural science" Latine "phyisca," interdum "historia naturalis" audit. Quod ad "science" latiore sensu sumptum, vocabula Latine quae sunt "methodus," "scientificus," "historia" utcumque ad rem pertinere videntur. ["Scientia" in Latin never, as far as I know, means "science" -- even among modern and contemporary Latin writers -- but rather "knowledge." "Natural science" in Latin is "physica," sometimes "historia naturalis." As far as the more general sense of "science," the Latin words "methodus," "scientificus," "historia" point in some degree toward it.]

Whittaker's words entry for "scientia" gives knowledge as the primary meaning of the term and science as a possible second meaning. Nevertheless, I think I must side with the anonmymous critic to some degree. Having a PhD (philosophiae doctor) in physics and knowing that Newton's master work in physics is entitled "Principia Mathematica Philosophiae Naturalis", it becomes clear to me that "scientia" as it is used here in Vicipaedia is just a substitute word for "philosophia" in the sense that Newton and contempories used the word. In the article entitled "philosophia", "philosophia" is used in the much more restrictive sense that is customary in modern romance languages and english, as contrasted with the way people use the term before the 17th century (as far as I can tell). To capture the modern meaning of the term philosophy, I should think one would have to instead use the phrase "philosophia axiomatica" or "philosophia pura". To capture the modern meaning of the term science, I should think it would be much better to substitute the ancient term "philosophia" instead. Rafaelgarcia 14:17, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The first definition of science in Webster's Collegiate is: "the state of knowing: knowledge as distinguished from ignorance of misunderstanding." For the English word science, my eighteenth-century English-Latin dictionary gives: "scientia, doctrina ; eruditio, ars, disciplina." Natural science and (e.g.) culinary science are subsets of science. So what's the problem? IacobusAmor 14:39, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, Iacobus, I must admit you have a point. Indeed if we look up "Philosophia" in Whitaker's words, we find that "science" does not appear as a possible meaning. So indeed, Scientia is the best possible translation of the modern term "science".Rafaelgarcia 15:06, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Minime verum est scientiam Latine nunquam idem quod in linguis vulgaribus significavisse; nam si in Google quaesiveritis, plurimas profecto academias invenietis, quae Academia Scientiarum vocantur. --Gualterus

One problem I do see on the page is the use of the term "Chemica" instead of "Chemia" for chemistry. According to Whitaker's words, "Chemica" means chemical not chemistry, the apparent intended meaning here.Rafaelgarcia 15:08, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The OED says modern Latin for chemist is chemista and chymista. It says chemistry is an English formation of that plus the English suffix -ry, and the original use may have been pejorative, as with casuistry, palmistry, sophistry, etc. So a modern form that would reflect the Latin+English combo already seen in English chemistry would be a mess! ¶ As you know, Spanish for chemistry is química, so Latin chemica wouldn't seem so farfetched, not least because it wouldn't have had to come via the English wayside. ¶ So: chemica, -ae (f.) 'chemistry' ; chemicus, -i (m.) 'chemist' ; chemicus, -a, -um 'chemical'? IacobusAmor 15:35, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In spanish, chemistry is "la química" as in "the chemical science". Plain old "química" means chemical or chemist. From what I can see in the dictionairy, "Chemia" is definitely the appropriate latin word, not "chemica".Rafaelgarcia 15:46, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just found this listing for the translation of "chemistry" in various european languages: Български: Химия Čeština: chemie Dansk: kemi Deutsch: Chemie Ελληνικά: χημεία English: chemistry English (US): chemistry Español: química Eesti keel: keemia Euskara: kimika Suomi: kemia Français: chimie Magyar: kémia/vegyészet Italiano: chimica Nederlands: chemie Norsk: kjemi Polski: chemia Português: química Русский: химия Slovenščina: kemija Svenska: kemi --Rafaelgarcia 15:57, 15 Februarii 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Simply observe the etymology of English Chemistry:
Chemistry < Chemist+ry < Modern Latin: Chimista < Mediaeval Latin: Alchimista < Mediaeval Latin: Alchimia < Arabic: al-kimiya (the chemistry) < Greek: Khemeia
Latinization of Greek Khemeia: Chemia

Name of Descartes[fontem recensere]

In parte appellata "scientia" citata est sententia ex Descartes ("omnis scientia est cognitio certa et evidens"), mutandum vero est nomen, nam nomen latinum est Renatus Cartesius pro Descartes-usor:

De disciplinis ficticiis quas nonnulli "scientiam" nuncupare audent[fontem recensere]

Theologia et astrologia haudquaquam scientiae sunt, nam methodo experimentali (quae et scientifica vocatur) minime utuntur, nihil demonstrant, mathematicam non adhibent! --Gualterus