Disputatio:Pressio vaporis

pressio[fontem recensere]

Pantocrator, scio te redirectiones fecisse pressum et pressuram sed, ut bene scis, habemus quidem nostram commentationem de pressione. Consentisne melius esse habere quoque pressionem vaporis? --Ioscius^∞ 19:57, 20 Februarii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Debet, suppono. Optaui pressus vaporis solus caussa hoc usum est in nexibus. Nota Formula:Elementa pressus vaporis. Pantocrator 20:30, 20 Februarii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nullum responsum, moui. Pantocrator 23:05, 20 Februarii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In Latina pura (secundum Cassell's), pressio est 'leverage, means of leverage', dum pressus est 'a pressing, pressure'. IacobusAmor 05:09, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Definitiones primae in OLD: pressio = 'pressure', pressus = 'the exertion of pressure', pressura = 'the action or fact of pressing; pressure'. It's clear that all three words can mean 'pressure', but pressio is the most common in scientific Latin. Pantocrator 05:41, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to Cassell's, the usual classical use of pressio (by Julius Caesar) is to mean 'leverage' or 'means of leverage', and the usual classical words for 'pressure' are pressus, vis, pondus, impressio, and nisus. When writing in dialect, as one may sometimes want do in relation to certain modern fields of endeavor (such as physics), it's best to be precise & obvious about the intended meanings of words that don't exist, or that have quite different meanings, in the classical language. For example, an ignorant reader must have no idea what 'ideal steam' (vapor idealis) might be, not least because classical Latin for English 'ideal' is perfectus, optimus, summus, omnibus numeris absolutis, and commenticius. Hence too the usefulness of links, &c. IacobusAmor 12:49, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

recens recensio a Pantocratore[fontem recensere]

Re: [1]; if a gas were ideal then there could not be a liquid in the first place. Thus no clasius claperon which assumes the existence of liquid and gasS!omeone needs to recognize his limitations?--Rafaelgarcia 01:19, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

True, but the equation does assume the gas phase to obey the ideal gas law. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clausius%E2%80%93Clapeyron_relation for example. Claiming that the equation is for 'nonideal gases' is clearly wrong. Pantocrator 01:22, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How on earth can someone consider the clausius clapeyron equation to be an ideal gas law (which assumes no interactions between molecules) is beyond me.--Rafaelgarcia 01:30, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a matter of opinion, but of mathematics. The equation is derived from the vapor's being ideal and the heat of vaporization being constant. Go through it yourself if you won't believe me. Pantocrator 01:36, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have there is no assumption of the gas above being ideal. The only approximations that people use are for Delta V and L, but those common approximations are not part of the CC equation, which is completely general. Ideal gases don't form liquids since they do not have potential energies acting between them. Often real gases approximate ideal gas, but only approximately.--24.107.235.195 13:47, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As to what's being said in the article[fontem recensere]

As to what's being said in the article, I know next to nothing, but it may be worth pointing out that Pantocrator changed "The leverage of a gas, when the gas is 'ideal,' grows in proportion to the temperature" to "The leverage of steam grows by means of temperature." I suppose the terms pressio and idealis must mean something in the evolved language, or in some scientific dialect of it, but they might want to be defined (or linked to their definitions) so that they can become intelligible to those untrained in such matters. IacobusAmor 03:19, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vapor is already linked to gas, Pantocrator 05:41, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, vapor in this article is linked to gas, not to vapor! IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:36, 8 Maii 2015 (UTC)[reply]

and pressio should be. Anyway, Rafael's sentence is just wrong. That pressure increases with temperature is not a function of the ideality (or not) of the vapor, but of the (condensed phase) process of evaporation. 'In proportion to', in English, usually indicates a linear relationship, which we don't have here; the exact relation is very complex and can only be modeled empirically (Clausius-Clapeyron is only a rough approximation as the heat of evaporation is not constant with temperature and necessarily becomes zero at the critical point). Pantocrator 05:41, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The terminus technicus Idealis (also Idea) refers to platonic philosophy and is used in science to refer to a fictitiously simplified thing that serves as a model to help understand real phenomena. --24.107.235.195 14:00, 9 Martii 2010 (UTC)[reply]