Disputatio:Popina

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Simulatus infra ex taberna.Jondel (disputatio) 17:09, 1 Augusti 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Restaurant[fontem recensere]

For "restaurant" I found this, but which is the best?

ristorante: lauta caupona http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/8704/lexicum/lexr.html

Taberna refectoria http://www.quaelibet.net/NotaeNet/N_r.html

restaurant: popIna f, caupOna, taberna refectoria http://wredmond.home.texas.net/rlittera.html

Restaurant: taberna deversoria (classical word with the comics)
Langenscheidt

Taberna restaurativa
my invention

--Alex1011 21:42, 16 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Eh, taberna is good, so is popina. Caupona is more of an inn, someplace where you can stay the night. If there's a table cloth I usually go with taberna, if it's just a quick stop like a sandwich place or burger joint I go with popina. --Ioscius (disp) 00:13, 17 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Taberna restaurantiva is just reinventing taberna refectoria.
According to Traupmans's conversational latin and the Oxford Latin dictionary, caupona is the prefered translation for restaurant.
Both caupona and taberna mean inn/tavern, but taberna also means a shop/small store; so you would go to a taberna to buy jewelry but not to a caupona, where you would mostly go to stay the night. Now a taberna refectoria would be a shop were they specialize sell food of some kinds; cauponae apparently were inns with a nice sit-down restaurant or tavern. On the other hand, popina literally means a bistro, cook-shop, like mcdonalds.
So, taking these into account,
popina = low-end mcdonald's type restaurant;
taberna refectoria = smaller nicer stand-alone restaurant business;
caupona = high-end restaurant/inn.
taberna deversoria = hotel shop; which for many hotel may or may not correspond to the hotel restaurant, depending on the hotel.
--Rafaelgarcia 01:12, 17 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Popina is a handy term because it really has no other meaning: it's a place where food is cooked for immediate eating. Its origin, incidentally, is as the Sabine equivalent of the pure-Latin coquina "kitchen". The word was borrowed from Sabine into Latin, some hundreds of years BC, for a kind of establishment that maybe the Sabines made fashionable. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:43, 17 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]
RestaurantBath.jpg

For a place like that on the right hand side I think we need a term like taberna refectoria. Popina sounds for me somewhat low end, as Rafael mentioned, I am also not sure whether caupona isn't somewhat popular. Following the different vicipaedias, the modern "restaurant" is an invention of 19th century Paris, before, there was no free choice of meal and no individual service, the defining characteristics of "restaurant". --Alex1011 11:22, 17 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's the received wisdom currently. If I write Caupona or Popina I'll cite a Latin text, probably of the 2nd century AD, that depicts both free choice of meal and individual service! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:43, 17 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of good remarks above. I still think the obvious one term is "popina". Starting from there, of course, if people think the name is too common for their favourite most-expensive restaurants, it's possible to say so in the article. But restaurant was a common old name, meaning soup-kitchen, at first. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:48, 1 Augusti 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was wrong to say that "restaurant was a common old name ... at first". It was rather a new class of eating-house that offered healthy soups (restaurants), a wider choice of foods, and separate tables. I have not yet found it described in a modern Latin source: it corresponds in a way to Martial's "popina sellariola" if to any classical term at all. Alex's adjective "restaurativa" (above) could correctly be applied to it, and certainly to its soup, and its owner and soup-maker could correctly be called a "restaurator" (cf. French restaurateur), even if these medieval Latin words have not been used in this exact sense before.
I think of keeping "popina" as our general article for eating-houses (to be linked to English en:tavern perhaps) and starting popina sellariola to correspond with English en:restaurant. A fast-food place (en:Fast food restaurant) might then be ganea and a takeaway place (en:Take-out) a thermopolium. Does anyone agree or disagree? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:13, 21 Maii 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Since popina sellariola is now longer than "popina", and will soon get longer still, I am making the change at Wikidata, linking "popina sellariola" to restaurant (one of the 10,000) and linking "popina" to tavern. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:21, 1 Iunii 2021 (UTC)[reply]