Disputatio:Petrus Cosimi Medices

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Nomen Medicis[fontem recensere]

At the court of the Medici, the Latin surname was Medices, -is. For example: "Laboraverat igitur circiter menses duos Laurentius Medices e doloribus iis qui, quoniam viscerum cartilagini inhaeret, ex argumento hypochondrii appellantur" (ex litteris Angeli Politiani, 18 Maii 1492).

Side note for tyros who think Latin verbs must be the last words of their sentences: observe where the main verb here is. IacobusAmor 15:38, 16 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nomen adiectivum[fontem recensere]

The corresponding adjective was Medicus, -a, -um, as in this punning passage from the same letter: "Quidam illud etiam (ut sunt ingenia) pro monstro interpretantur, quod excellentissimus (ita enim habebatur) huius aetatis medicus, quando ars eum praescitaque fefellerant, animum desponderit, puteoque se sponte demerserit, ac principi ipsi Medicae (si vocabularium spectes) familiae sua nece parentaverit." By the regular processes of linguistic development, the English adjective became Medical, and the court of the Medici was therefore the Medical court. IacobusAmor 15:38, 16 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Italian names Medici in particular[fontem recensere]

I ask me if is not better to let the italian name (cognome), because italians names are already relics of an old genitive (e.g Marchetti from "figlio di Marchetto" in Latin filius Marchetti), therefore it makes no sense to translate them in Latin. See Gerhard Rohlfs, Grammatica storica della Lingua italiana e dei suo dialetti, vol. "morfologia", nota n° 1 pag. 8: about the origin of the italian names "l'autore si pronuncia qui per un genitivo nato e consolidato nel linguaggio degli avvocati", the author believes that it is a type of genitive created in the language of lawyers". Should we move the pages Silvio e.g Berlusco to Berlusconi? Ciao--Massimo Macconi 11:01, 17 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

P.S I reproduce the page on wiki taberna

Lorenzo de' Medici called himself Laurentius Medices. Other people called him Laurentius Medices. In Latin, he was indisputably Laurentius Medices. Why should we call him otherwise? IacobusAmor 11:47, 17 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Middle names[fontem recensere]

Re the name Petrus Cosimi Medices. The first volume of Angelo Poliziano's letters (which sits on my desk right now, in the I Tatti Renaissance Library edition) doesn't give him a middle name. Is there a good reason for it? IacobusAmor 20:32, 19 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Middle names[fontem recensere]

I believe that the middle names are used to differentiate Petrus Cosimi Medices from Petrus Laurentii Medices (cfr. others wikis). They were not kings or dukes and therefore it's not possible to give them the names Piero Medici I and Piero Medici II. Historians use instead as middle names their fathers names (di Cosimo and di Lorenzo).--Massimo Macconi 20:40, 19 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is plausible—but in his lifetime, was he called "Petrus Cosimi Medices"? I'd rather have expected "Petrus, filius Cosimi Medicis," or something like that, so we'd have these articles (the numbers stand for lifespan years):
Petrus Medices (1234–5678), filius Cosimi Medicis, . . .
Petrus Medices (2345–6789), filius Laurentii Medicis, . . .
That is: the person's name is his name, and maybe we shouldn't adjust it. IacobusAmor 20:49, 19 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

this are the choices of the others wikis for the first one[fontem recensere]

de:Piero der Gichtige en:Piero di Cosimo de' Medici es:Pedro de Cosme de Médicis fr:Pierre de Médicis la:Pierus Cosimi Medices nl:Piero di Cosimo de' Medici pl:Piero di Cosimo de' Medici

On la.wiki we should agree on a common line. Ciao--Massimo Macconi 21:03, 19 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Other forms of Medici[fontem recensere]

A couple years ago I was looking for the correct Latin for Medici, and found some contradictory references. Unfortunately I can't recall where I discussed this--surely the information would be worth having, as long as we're talking so much about Petrus Cosimi. --Iustinus 02:11, 20 Decembris 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]