Disputatio:Palaestrica

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Luctatio Palaestrica = "the art of wrestling" according to L&S; luctatio = "a wrestling/struggle" or "a contending" or "a wrestling match"; colluctatio = "a death match", a "a contending with"--Rafaelgarcia 02:36, 3 Septembris 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Cassell's defines palaestrica only as 'gymnastics', and wrestling as 'luctatio' and 'luctatus'. IacobusAmor 03:34, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
Damn, a contradiction! Lacus Curtius article on Palaestra seems to support L&S: [1], but he notes: "The word was, however, used in different senses at various periods, and its exact meaning, especially in relation to the gymnasium, has occasioned much controversy among modern writers. ...The Romans had originally no places corresponding to the Greek gymnasia and palaestrae; and when towards the close of the republic, wealthy Romans, in imitation of the Greeks, began to build places for exercise in their villas, they called them indifferently gymnasia and palaestrae (Cic. ad Att. I.4, 8, 9, 10, ad Qu. Fr. III.1 § 2, Verr. V.72). The words were thus used by the Romans as synonymous; and accordingly we find that Vitruvius (V.11) gives a description of a Greek gymnasium under the name of palaestra. "--Rafaelgarcia 04:10, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
So should we move it to Luctatio and give palaestrica as a synonym?--Rafaelgarcia 04:12, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
I don't know much about this subject, but the word palaestrica looks as if it means 'thing of the palaestra,' which Cassell's defines as 'gymnasium, wrestling school' and therefore 'wrestling' and 'training in rhetoric, rhetorical exercises'. Since the verb luctor specifically means 'to wrestle' and a luctator is specifically a 'wrestler', luctatio & luctatus could be appropriate for 'wrestling'. IacobusAmor 13:49, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
I don't know much either, but L&S always translate luctatus, luctatus and lucta as "a wrestling" rather than simply "wrestling" which implies a specific instance rather than the abstract. And further they give cite Palaestra as a "wrestling school" as the first meaning, Palaestricus as a "wrestling teacher" and Palaestrica as "pălae-strĭca, ae, f., the art of wrestling, Quint. 2, 21, 11"--Rafaelgarcia 14:42, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough, but then how are you going to translate 'gymnastics' (something nowadays altogether different from wrestling)? IacobusAmor 16:21, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
Following the example, gymnasium = school or place for gymnastics, gymnasticus = gymnastics teacher and gymnast, gymnastica = "the art of gymnastics". That's what is given in Words, for example. Morgan cites gymnasticus and also the adjective gymnicus. But of course a disambig will be necessary for each of the terms since they have secondary meanings. e.g. Gymnasium and palaestra are also used to name non athletic schools in some countries,, gymnasium = high school.--Rafaelgarcia 17:13, 5 Septembris 2009 (UTC)