Disputatio:Odysseas Elytes
Fons praenominis?[fontem recensere]
Is there a reliable source (I don't mean Wikidata) that his name from birth was "Odysseas"? It seems unlikely: the classical spelling would have been official until long after that date, and whether the common modern Greek pronunciation would even have been known in autonomous Ottoman Crete would be an interesting question! Notice, too, that the English edition cited in the bibliography calls him "Odysseus". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:56, 24 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
- Good points; I suppose he would have gotten a katharevousa name at birth, though it would be nice to have a source. I went ahead and changed that part back. The question of the lemma seems more complicated to me: I thought it was better to base our transliteration on the modern Greek name he used (at least later in life), rather than on English or ancient Greek. Of course, maybe he should be classical Latin Ulixes, which wouldn't really be more different from translating James as Iacobus, etc. Lesgles (disputatio) 19:31, 24 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
- It's a tiny issue (we will never have articles about many modern people called Odysseus) but, although one may favour demotic in the context of modern Greek culture, one has to admit that we Vicipaedians ourselves, having Cicero as our model, are katharevousa Latinists! In the case of praenomina known in Latin tradition we usually convert to a Latin form (preferring, if there are options, the option that is closest to the native form). I said to myself, when I encountered this page before, that this is a relevant case and that those options are Ulixes and Odysseus. However, I admit, now that I'm put on the spot, I can't immediately show that the form "Odysseus" is ever used in Latin. If it isn't, I guess I would prefer the transliterated "Odysseas" to the Procrustean "Ulixes" :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:08, 25 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
- OK, well my opinion is not very strong either way. Here's a source of "Odysseus" in modern Latin, so if you'd like to change it back, please do! Lesgles (disputatio) 15:56, 25 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
- It's curious how inconsistent they are in other languages. You can find on Google, in Spanish, the list "Constantino Kavafis, Yorgos Seferis, Yanis Ritsos y Odiseo Elytis". Now why do numbers 1 and 4 have their forenames converted to Spanish, when numbers 2 and 3 don't?
- I don't feel strongly either. Let's see if anyone else comments. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:49, 25 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
- OK, well my opinion is not very strong either way. Here's a source of "Odysseus" in modern Latin, so if you'd like to change it back, please do! Lesgles (disputatio) 15:56, 25 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)
- It's a tiny issue (we will never have articles about many modern people called Odysseus) but, although one may favour demotic in the context of modern Greek culture, one has to admit that we Vicipaedians ourselves, having Cicero as our model, are katharevousa Latinists! In the case of praenomina known in Latin tradition we usually convert to a Latin form (preferring, if there are options, the option that is closest to the native form). I said to myself, when I encountered this page before, that this is a relevant case and that those options are Ulixes and Odysseus. However, I admit, now that I'm put on the spot, I can't immediately show that the form "Odysseus" is ever used in Latin. If it isn't, I guess I would prefer the transliterated "Odysseas" to the Procrustean "Ulixes" :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:08, 25 Aprilis 2016 (UTC)