Disputatio:Miserando atque eligendo

English-speakers: what does his motto mean?[fontem recensere]

NB: Disputatio a Disputatio:Franciscus (papa) hic mota. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:26, 15 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Dish, a US-based blog, is quoting this as a "tweet of the hour":

@roccopalmo “miserando atque eligendo” (lowly, and yet chosen) was his episcopal motto

— Jeffrey Pinyan (@PrayingTheMass) March 13, 2013

Would someone explain how we get this translation out of words that look as if they mean something more like 'by commiserating and choosing'? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:51, 13 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's a bad translation. The source of the text is explained here (scroll to bottom). It's from Bede, Homilies 21. Bede was not a classical writer. My impression (from the Spanish explanation) is that Bede was using these as participles, and meant "pitying him and choosing him" [just as you say]. The subject is Jesus, and the object is the publican to whom Jesus said "Follow me". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:50, 13 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bede's text (containing "miserando atque eligendo") can be found here: [1]. --UV (disputatio) 22:42, 13 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, OK. The Spanish reads y lo vio con misericordia y eligiéndolo, which might be glossed 'and he looked at him with pity/sympathy and singling/picking him out'. (Noster Xaverius can help us out as necessary.) So the eligendo is a bit more nuanced than 'by choosing'. The tweet seems to imply that the choosing refers to the new pope himself. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 01:38, 14 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He wasn't pope when he chose the motto. I suppose that he regarded himself as among those who are parallel to the publican, and therefore as the target, or one of the targets, both of the pitying and of the choosing. So I see why the English translation in the tweet is so expressed, but I still don't think highly of it. It would be rather presumptuous to describe oneself as "chosen" (though Bergoglio has been chosen now and he can't get away from that!) The gerunds are active, their subject is Jesus, and they are present, not past. The pitying and the choosing are current processes, I think ... If we can be confident of it, we can do an article about the phrase.

I feel sure Bede's Homilies have been translated into English, but I haven't yet found an English translation online. UV's link above to the Latin text makes this Homily 22 (not 21 as I said). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:01, 14 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Haec disputatio barbaris omnibus, neque anglophonis tantum, convenit :) Commentationem incipio de ea sententia: videte (mox) Miserando atque eligendo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:51, 15 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Vatican has now put online an explanation of the motto: [2] --UV (disputatio) 22:15, 18 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Vide etiam[fontem recensere]

... en:Talk:Pope Francis/Archive 2#Miserando atque eligendo (His Motto). Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:34, 15 Martii 2013 (UTC)[reply]