Disputatio:Lingua Serbocroatica

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Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian (and Montenegrin) is official different. Serbocroatian have 5 000 peoples, Bosnian 2 milion, Croatian 6 milion and Serbian 8 milion. Serbocroatian isnt' have catedras; have Wikipedia (16 userus), (and 4 wikipedias). 4 articles, it is 5! -- 15:05, 4 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
What are catedras? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:08, 4 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Port of language in facultet. Serbocroatian isnt' have; Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian have. -- 18:30, 4 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I still don't understand. Is it to do with religion (cathedrals)? Or maybe universities (professorships)? Can you find someone who speaks English to explain it to us more clearly? I also do not understand "4 articles, it is 5". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:55, 4 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
In universities. -- 09:26, 5 Iulii 2007 (UTC)
Andrew, I'd assume by this that he/she means 'chairs' in universities. IacobusAmor 15:37, 14 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

opinion[fontem recensere]

I think that there should be separate articles for each of this languages.

Who are you? and why is your opinion relevant? and what arguments support your assertion? (Not that you're wrong, but that providing reasons for your declarations will clarify the issues and further the dialogue.) IacobusAmor 15:37, 14 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to subscribe myself last time.There are numerous reasons and Matrix Croatica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matica_hrvatska ,has written a document: "promemoria o hrvatskom jeziku"(Promemoria/Memorandum on/of Croatian language),in which they explain very thoroughly why should those languages be separated-And since croatia obtained independence ,we croatians like to show that we have our "stuffs(language etc.)" ,which are different from "stuffs" of other ex-yugoslavian nations. And those two languages aren't identical Zagrabiensis 19:45, 14 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)

British and American aren't identical either but they are the same language.--Rafaelgarcia 12:26, 15 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
That's one bold claim. --Ceylon 13:56, 15 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC) (originally meant as a joke) --Ceylon 06:34, 16 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
I guess as a "native" speaker I am aware that differences exist, but they appear so minor compared to differences between individual american speakers that I have trouble thinking of them as significant. Part of this may be the variety of pronounciations and expressions that immigrants in the US use, and that I am exposed to here in the university we all naturally develop an ear for all kinds of accents etc. However, I find British TV shows are eminently more comprehensible to me than some american "street speech."--Rafaelgarcia 00:45, 16 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
The point is that this isn't a forum for advancing political/ideological/religious agendas but an encyclopedia concerning the objective truth. For example, if every time there was an independence movement/revolution we called what the separated parties speak a new language, spanish wouldn't be the third most common language on the planet, because we would have to distinguish, mexican, cuban, puerto rican, ....21 separate countries worth of spanish. At this point should be create 21 different pages in our encyclopedia for each variety of spanish?--Rafaelgarcia 14:20, 15 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
In matters like this, Rafael, there are no objective truths. What is a language, what a dialect, can't be resolved by resorting to linguistic notions such as mutual intelligibility nor any other "objective" basis. I see the problems you're pointing at, but one can't escape the fact that ultimately these are political issues. And issues of loyalty. Anyone who wishes to write an adequate article on the languages/dialects subsumed under Serbo-Croatian ought to make some serious effort to go into the linguistic situation there. It's an undeniable historical fact that Serbo-Croatian existed under Tito's regime, but insofar as political measures are being taken the impact of which will be an institutional differentiation, we should take that into account. If -- I don't know the exact situation -- but if most Croats think their mother tongue is Croatian (and not Serbo-Croatian), that's something to be sensitive to. --Neander 20:40, 15 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree about your statement regarding "objective truths" but I appreciate your point and I appreciate you have much more experience in these matters than I do.--Rafaelgarcia 00:47, 16 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)
As to the difference between dialect and language, a useful definition was given by Max Weinreich (he himself attributed it to a questioner at one of his lectures): "en:A language is a dialect with an army and navy". Another, less amusing, answer, is: "It depends what the speakers think." Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:36, 16 Ianuarii 2008 (UTC)