Disputatio:Fructus Schini terebinthifolii
Confusion translated[fontem recensere]
- The English article (which has been slightly improved since our translation was done ... but only slightly) says that "pink peppercorns" come from the tree Schinus molle, but none of its sources agree. Whenever they specify the origin, they all say Schinus terebinthifolius. I said that in Dangerous Tastes (2000) after checking as carefully as I could. The French wiki says that too. So does this medical article.
- The English name "pink peppercorns" is admittedly a misnomer, and doesn't appear ever to have been used in Latin, so we have no reason to spread it. The Renaissance Latin name for the Peruvian medicinal plant Schinus molle was simply "molle" (a loanword from Quechua) see line 2 on this page, while the Brazilian plant Schinus terebinthifolius/-a, which came into use as a spice only much later, perhaps has no other Latin name than "Schinus terebinthifolius/-a" (at least, I haven't found one).
- Our image (which, incidentally, its author labelled correctly "Pink_Peppercorns_(Schinus_terebinthifolius).JPG") surely shows the fresh berries, not "pro victu parata" as our caption says.
Few other wikis have a separate page about these berries: French is one of the few, not surprisingly since they have been fashionable in French cuisine, but in truth they are not a very important or historic spice. So, since our page is really about the berries of Schinus terebinthifolius/-a, I propose to move the page to Schinus terebinthifolia (which seems to be the currently accepted form of the name) and revise it! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:48, 11 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- I see that the exact translation for "pink peppercorns" can be found in pharmaceutical Latin as "Fructus Schini terebinthifolii"; there is also "Fructus Schini mollis" for the Peruvian species. Both, evidently, were once used in European pharmacy. See Google for these phrases. But I'm still not sure we need a page for the fruits separate from the page for the species. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:42, 11 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- I grew up with these plants: we had a hedge of them, and many neighbors had them, but nobody knew the fruits could be treated as a spice. The sap irritated some people's skin, supporting the supposition that the plants were noxious. If Vicipaedia has articles on other spices (apart from the plants that produce them), then this article fits right in; otherwise not. My memory is that the mature fruits were red, not pink. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:23, 11 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- That may mean that the plants were S. molle, not S. terebinthifolius. If so (in spite of what our article and en:wiki currently say) they are not a spice, so it's a good thing no one told you they were. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:48, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- No, the leaves didn't look like that; they looked exactly like the leaves of S. terebinthifolius. Also, the plants were called Brazilian pepper—a term that enwiki applies to S. terebinthifolius but not S. molle. ¶ Does molle (not mollis) indicate that Schinus is supposed to be neuter? Stearn says -folius, [-a, -um] is a genuine botanical adjective, so terebinthifolia would have to imply that Schinus is feminine, as plants usually are. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:20, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- Wait! Enwiki sez "The word molle in Schinus molle comes from mulli, the Quechua word for the tree. So that's that. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:22, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- Just so. I have seen this noun "molle" used in the genitive, "Fructus Schini mollis", so it's declined like the neuter of the common adjective.
- OK, then, no ambiguity, you knew S. terebinthifolia and it could have been used as a spice but wasn't! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:46, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- Wait! Enwiki sez "The word molle in Schinus molle comes from mulli, the Quechua word for the tree. So that's that. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:22, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- No, the leaves didn't look like that; they looked exactly like the leaves of S. terebinthifolius. Also, the plants were called Brazilian pepper—a term that enwiki applies to S. terebinthifolius but not S. molle. ¶ Does molle (not mollis) indicate that Schinus is supposed to be neuter? Stearn says -folius, [-a, -um] is a genuine botanical adjective, so terebinthifolia would have to imply that Schinus is feminine, as plants usually are. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:20, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- We have a few articles on spices separate from the species articles: yes, this could be one, but the article's so confused and it's such a minor spice I doubted it was worth it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:48, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- That may mean that the plants were S. molle, not S. terebinthifolius. If so (in spite of what our article and en:wiki currently say) they are not a spice, so it's a good thing no one told you they were. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:48, 12 Februarii 2017 (UTC)
- I grew up with these plants: we had a hedge of them, and many neighbors had them, but nobody knew the fruits could be treated as a spice. The sap irritated some people's skin, supporting the supposition that the plants were noxious. If Vicipaedia has articles on other spices (apart from the plants that produce them), then this article fits right in; otherwise not. My memory is that the mature fruits were red, not pink. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 21:23, 11 Februarii 2017 (UTC)