Disputatio:Coloratum
Quae dubia mendave maxima (etenim minora) hac in pagina manent? Latinitatis mali signum delere propono.Thesaurus 01:05, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Suspecto ne adhuc maneant corrigenda seria in hac pagina. Non legi omnia, sed modo nunc iam dicit tres classis sic. Aliquis debet legere totam paginam antequam signum maxdubium submoveatur.--Rafaelgarcia 21:56, 3 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- "civitates servales? Coniunctione Americana decesserunt" ??? Dubito multum.--Rafaelgarcia 21:59, 3 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Multa menda manent, "mendo quod non morietur" non excepto! IacobusAmor 22:57, 3 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- "Classis," anglice 'Navy' in casu genitivo est; "Tres Battalariae," anglice 'battleships' in casu nominativo sunt. "Coniunctio Americana" ad "Unitas Civitatum Americae," anglice "The Union" mutata est. "Civitates servales" anglice "slave states" ad "Civitates servis imperantes" mutatae sunt. "Ab Unitate Civitatum Americae decesserunt" anglice est "withdrew from the Union." Quid putatis?Thesaurus 01:05, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Non potes mea sententia vertere union; haec sola est dictio anglica vulgaris pro civitates foederatae vel CFA; unio vel unitas non est dictio vulgaris Latine aequivalens aut habes fontem?; re vera nomen CFA non est Unitas Civitatum Americae! Tres classis = "three of the fleet"? Batalaria = battleship?? Habes fontem huius significationis pro batalaria? Egomet solus legi navis cataphracta pro eo...Civitas servis imperans= "state ruling over slaves" nescio si correctum dicat quia slaves states solae erant civitates quae servi sinebant; re vera civitates ipsae servis non imperabant. --Rafaelgarcia 02:31, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Forsitan batalaria cataphracta (armored warship) melius reddit battleship--Rafaelgarcia 02:55, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- 'Slave [sic] state' = civitas quae servitudinem sinit? quae homines fieri servos sinit? ¶ 'Battleship' = 'warship' = navis longa. ¶ Unitas Civitatum Americae = 'the oneness of America's States'. ¶ 'Union' = Late Latin unio, aliter iunctio? ¶ 'Secede from' (verbum artis proprium) = secedere ab. IacobusAmor 03:02, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- en:Battleship is not just a "warship"; despite its name, the meaning is "heavily armored warship" other warships that are not battleships include frigates, destroyers, submarines, and aircraft carriers. Navis longa was a Roman warship; the term cannot possibly convey what a modern battleship is except in a poetical sense. Again the term I actually have seen in print before is cataphracta navis although being more specific using the late rare latin word batalaria with cataphracta batalaria I think would be ok, if not slightly better by being a tad more specific.--Rafaelgarcia 10:21, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- What you're denying here is the validity of Bradley's Arnold's suggestion that newfangled concepts be rendered as transferred senses of genuine Classical words, the way 'bullets' can be translated as sagittae. There's nothing wrong with your stance, and we sometimes have to adopt it (as with modern biological & zoological technical terms), but then doesn't it undercut any objection you might have to many nontechnical Late Latin words & uses, such as unio for 'union', status for 'state' (=civitas), translatio libri for liber conversus, and so on? IacobusAmor 11:53, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think it undercuts preferrences for early latin words, when they are adequate. But, for instance, it's important I'd say in general to distinguish bullets from arrows, if one is mindful of what this difference led to in modern warfare (i.e. given our knowledge of recent history); for that reason glans is a better rendering of bullet than sagitta. On the other hand, I can't see any reason to prefer status for civitas when rendering state; the classical word/phrase does the job with less confusion since status has many other meanings that come first and its meaning as state is very derived and I think that meaning is only associated with the phrase status civitatis (in fact I don't claim to completely understand it but there is a similar thing that happens with universitas studiorum). Comparing translatio libri and liber conversus I think the meanings are clearly different, though subtle and the use I think depends on what one wants to say: translatio libri= "translation of the book" has as its first meaning the process of translation, whereas liber conversus = "the book translated" clearly implies one is speaking of a version of the book that has been translated.--Rafaelgarcia 15:45, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- See about status civitatis in Roman civil law here: Year Roman Law (Google books); and some comments on its use as a synonym for res publica meaning "organization/condition/form of the state" here: Cicero on the commonwealth and on the laws (google books); and it is translated as a political order here The new science of politics (Google Books)--Rafaelgarcia 16:28, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think it undercuts preferrences for early latin words, when they are adequate. But, for instance, it's important I'd say in general to distinguish bullets from arrows, if one is mindful of what this difference led to in modern warfare (i.e. given our knowledge of recent history); for that reason glans is a better rendering of bullet than sagitta. On the other hand, I can't see any reason to prefer status for civitas when rendering state; the classical word/phrase does the job with less confusion since status has many other meanings that come first and its meaning as state is very derived and I think that meaning is only associated with the phrase status civitatis (in fact I don't claim to completely understand it but there is a similar thing that happens with universitas studiorum). Comparing translatio libri and liber conversus I think the meanings are clearly different, though subtle and the use I think depends on what one wants to say: translatio libri= "translation of the book" has as its first meaning the process of translation, whereas liber conversus = "the book translated" clearly implies one is speaking of a version of the book that has been translated.--Rafaelgarcia 15:45, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- What you're denying here is the validity of Bradley's Arnold's suggestion that newfangled concepts be rendered as transferred senses of genuine Classical words, the way 'bullets' can be translated as sagittae. There's nothing wrong with your stance, and we sometimes have to adopt it (as with modern biological & zoological technical terms), but then doesn't it undercut any objection you might have to many nontechnical Late Latin words & uses, such as unio for 'union', status for 'state' (=civitas), translatio libri for liber conversus, and so on? IacobusAmor 11:53, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- en:Battleship is not just a "warship"; despite its name, the meaning is "heavily armored warship" other warships that are not battleships include frigates, destroyers, submarines, and aircraft carriers. Navis longa was a Roman warship; the term cannot possibly convey what a modern battleship is except in a poetical sense. Again the term I actually have seen in print before is cataphracta navis although being more specific using the late rare latin word batalaria with cataphracta batalaria I think would be ok, if not slightly better by being a tad more specific.--Rafaelgarcia 10:21, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- 'Slave [sic] state' = civitas quae servitudinem sinit? quae homines fieri servos sinit? ¶ 'Battleship' = 'warship' = navis longa. ¶ Unitas Civitatum Americae = 'the oneness of America's States'. ¶ 'Union' = Late Latin unio, aliter iunctio? ¶ 'Secede from' (verbum artis proprium) = secedere ab. IacobusAmor 03:02, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Forsitan batalaria cataphracta (armored warship) melius reddit battleship--Rafaelgarcia 02:55, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Non potes mea sententia vertere union; haec sola est dictio anglica vulgaris pro civitates foederatae vel CFA; unio vel unitas non est dictio vulgaris Latine aequivalens aut habes fontem?; re vera nomen CFA non est Unitas Civitatum Americae! Tres classis = "three of the fleet"? Batalaria = battleship?? Habes fontem huius significationis pro batalaria? Egomet solus legi navis cataphracta pro eo...Civitas servis imperans= "state ruling over slaves" nescio si correctum dicat quia slaves states solae erant civitates quae servi sinebant; re vera civitates ipsae servis non imperabant. --Rafaelgarcia 02:31, 4 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- "civitates servales? Coniunctione Americana decesserunt" ??? Dubito multum.--Rafaelgarcia 21:59, 3 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
Notis mendis correctis, latinitas ut 'inspicienda' vel 'bona' mutari potest? Thesaurus 17:22, 23 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Optime scripsisti, ut credo. Mutavi formulam Latinitatis. N.B. (1) Sententiam ultimam emendavi: an recte intellegi? (2) De "Milionis magis incolarum" dubito: aut debemus "millionis" scribere, aut fortasse "Decies centena milia"?? Alii fortasse opiniones habent. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:01, 23 Iulii 2008 (UTC)
- Gratias tibi ac omnibus certe ago plurimas, eximie Andrew. Formulae quas mutavisti notavistique plane meliores esse mihi videntur itaque ego eas mutavi. Thesaurus 20:46, 23 Iulii 2008 (UTC)