Disputatio:Coiotes

"Canis Latrans" and Coyote in english or french are name of the north américan canidae. So I wonder if we should maintain the links with canis latrans and "coyote" in other language wiki. Astirmays 09:06, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting. --67.36.186.168 09:39, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I mean that if that word "coiotes" does exist in latin, it must mean an old word canids Astirmays 10:43, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Um, no. 'coiotes' is specifically this animal. Not all Latin words are Roman words. The root of 'coyote'/'coiotes' is a Nahuatl word. —Myces Tiberinus 11:19, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I havn't been on vicipaedia for a long time, I thought latin wasn't a living language anymore... Astirmays 16:38, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Even if latin weren't still a living language, which it certainly is, the first latin speakers interacted with Nahuatlan cultures hundreds of years before vici was a mere cogitatio.--Ioshus Rocchio 17:43, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I Guess they were on ocean between them, that they didn't use to cross, did they ? Astirmays 20:36, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence, but the point is, that by the time the ocean was crossed, latin was still spoken widely by europeans. This was especially true for subjects such as biology, geography, science etc.--Ioshus Rocchio 21:10, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You may be right, but these one can't be called "first latin speakers" Astirmays 21:22, 2 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cagottis[fontem recensere]

From The Penny Cyclopaedia of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge, 1843:

“The Coyotl or Vulpes Indica of Hernandez (‘Hist. Quadr. Novae Hisp.,’ c. xiii.) appears to be the Caygotte of the Mexican Spaniards, and is, ‘most probably,’ the Lyciscus cagottis of Smith.” [1]

I think that's as close as it's getting. 'Cagottis' googles quite well (and in books). —Mucius Tever 23:36, 27 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What?[fontem recensere]

Dicens "Wait, how did this end up as "Canis latrantis"? That makes no sense," Iustinus mutavit (verbis nihil ad rem pertinentibus omissis):

Coiōtēs est nomen scientificum Canis latrantis

Coiōtēs is the scientific name of the baying dog

ad:

Coiōtēs est nomen scientificum Canis latrans

Coiōtēs is the scientific name "the baying dog"

What? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:43, 28 Septembris 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's an innocent mis-reading; the original version "Coiotes est nomen scientificum" doesn't make sense because "coiotes est nomen vulgarem/communem huius animalis, cui nomen scientificum est C. latrans." So I made it say that. Further improvements welcome! A. Mahoney (disputatio) 13:16, 28 Septembris 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good! I've fixed it further. ¶ There remains the supergeneral question of whether articles for plants & animals that have a common name want the common name or the scientific name as their lemma—or whether, for that matter, such items want two articles: one, under the scientific name, to cover the science, and the other, under the folkname, to cover the folk-science. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:22, 28 Septembris 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think my original intention, and how I was reading it last night when I fixed it, was "the scientific name is...." This is of course problematic because the opening clause is not independant, and will naturally be read with the est as you did (add to this your usual point about the placement of est...). Certainly even with the word salad I seem to have created, the genitive would make no sense, because coiotes is not the scientific name of Canis latrans, immo vice versa!

The new phrasing solves this problem, and removes my editorial point about the uselessness of the scientific name. But I do think the editorial point is an important one: this is a perfect example of why we can't use scientific names willy nilly. If I hear canis latrans I am going to think of a noisy domestic dog (I think latrare is generally translated "bark," rather than "bay"). As I understand this is caused by one of those ubiquitous shifts in scientific names, and it was originally Thos latrans "barking jackal," which makes a lot more sense.

--Iustinus (disputatio) 17:36, 28 Septembris 2012 (UTC)[reply]