Disputatio:Burgum ad Ligerim

Why "Burgum ad Ligerim" for "Bourgneuf-en-Retz" (Burgus novus in pago Retiatense)

1) in medieval latin, "bourg" is ''burgus'' (nominative case)

* https://www.persee.fr/doc/sohim_0398-3811_2019_edc_45_1 (page 29)

2) the river Loire (''Liger'') is at a distance of 20 km from Bourgneuf-en-Retz. Why this relation ?

3) why did you drop the word "Retz" ? "Retz" comes from the latin name of Rezé, Ratiatum, adjective Retiatensis ; "en Retz" means "dans le pays de Retz", in pago Retiatense, page of the Vicipaedia...

In conclusion : where did you find this name "Burgum ad Ligerim" ? (ubi invenistis istum nomen "Burgum ad Ligerim" ?)

Cordially... ~2025-27745-40 (talk) 07:35, 12 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. All good points. “Burgum” is certainly a mistake. As for the whole name, I cannot find any source besides websites that borrowed the name from us. We could ask the user who first introduced the Latin name to provide us with a source (@Leonellus Pons), but that happened in 2011 and the user's last edit goes back to 2016. If no Latin source is found we will need to go back to the non-Latin name. --Grufo (disputatio) 11:28, 12 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

There are French texts back to duke Jean V'reign (1399-1442)

• https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k73681m/f48.item (n° 2534, "Bourneuff en Raix", page 40) (Raix, Rais are former forms for Retz)

I shall search for latin texts of former cernturies..

The formula "Novus burgus..." or "Burgus novus..." must have existed (cf Burgus Novus (2) and Novus Burgus (1))

Cordially. ~2025-27745-40 (talk) 08:09, 13 Octobris 2025 (UTC)

Hello.

I found an interesting book at the Public Library in Nantes

• Joseph Le Clainche, Bourgneuf jadis, 1966, which gives three latin formulae :
  • papal decree 1332 : in quadam villa Burgus Novus vulgariter nuncupata,
  • judment 7 décember 1414 : (in) Borgo Novo in Radeis (Radeis for "Retz")
  • text 1246 : Vicus Novus in parochia Sancti Cyricii (Saint Cyr was the first parish, much older than the creation of the new borough).

Cordially. ~2025-27745-40 (talk) 16:38, 16 Octobris 2025 (UTC)