Disputatio:Berolinum

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Pagina honorata Berolinum fuit pagina mensis Octobris 2007.

LATINITAS[fontem recensere]

  • +3 (bona) --Alex1011 08:10, 2 Martii 2007 (UTC)

platea?[fontem recensere]

Secundum hanc disputationem Disputatio:Forum Arminianum plateae vocabulum vitandum est, melius sit area vel forum. Platea olim enim Latinitate classica non aream sed viam parvam designavit. --Alex1011 20:39, 25 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

OK. Sed verbum area non accipio: in nominibus locorum non reperio, et sensum omnino alienum habet (Anglice "threshing-floor; vacant plot in a city; exercise yard"): id etiam vitandum est! Forum possumus.
[Addidi:] Forum optimum est, ut credo, quia in Alexanderplatz nundinas erant. 21:54, 25 Septembris 2007 (UTC)
Statuam Berolinae amo. Paginam scripsi de dea. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 21:03, 25 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Tamquam vindice Deo[fontem recensere]

Haec sententia mihi videtur non neutra.--Marc mage 20:14, 30 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

"usque ad 1990 divisa est aut erat aut fuit?"[fontem recensere]

Quaerit Alex: "usque ad 1990 divisa est aut erat aut fuit?" ¶ Urbs restituta igitur usque ad annum 1990 est omnis divisa in partes quattuor = 'Therefore, until the year 1990, the whole reestablished city was divided into four parts'. This erat divisa = 'had been divided'. This fuit divisa doesn't seem to be in the paradigm, and may be possible only if you treat divisa as a nonparticiple. I guess the question is: what's the sentence trying to say? IacobusAmor 16:35, 4 Octobris 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter, because the division occurred over a long period of time. Even if one were able to use "fuit" in that situation (which you wouldn't), it would have the wrong meaning. By the way, is there a good way to say "it doesn't matter" in Latin? That was the main reason I posted this in English ;)
According to Traupmann,
It doesn't matter to me->Nihil ad me pertinet
What does that matter to me (you, us)?->Quid id mea (tua, nobis) refert?
In this case, perhaps: Nihil ad hoc pertinet, quod divisio illa inter tempus longum accidit....--Rafaelgarcia 05:07, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
Revenons à nos moutons.
  1. "Est divisa" would be normal in the course of a historical narrative. "It was badly damaged ... It was divided ... It was reunited ..."
  2. "Erat divisa ..." is possible if the main point is the reunion (which maybe it is, here). "It had been divided until ... At that date it was reunited ..." In that case, the division and the reunion must go in the same paragraph, the first sentence logically requiring the second.
However, since a historical narrative precedes this episode, the pre-1945 perfect tenses lead with difficulty (I think) into a post-1945 pluperfect. All in all, I would say "est divisa" is better. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:00, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but Irenaeus has changed it back, from restituta . . . est 'was restored' to restituta . . . erat 'had been restored'. I wonder why. Also, he's changed circa annum 1230 to anno 1230 circiter. I thought circiter governed the accusative. The alternative is that it's being used as an adverb, but I don't see how to construe that. IacobusAmor 13:07, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
I think, the point is usque ad 1990. That is a period of time. That is why divisa (participle) erat (Imperfectus durativus). divisa erat is not "has been divided", but "was divided", divisa est participle. --Alex1011 13:22, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
As Andrew has pointed out, the context would more smoothly continue in the perfect, but it says: "anno 1945 . . . deletum occupatumque est et gentes oppressae liberatae sunt. Urbs erat . . . divisa" = 'in the year 1945, it was destroyed and occupied and its oppressed peoples were freed. The city had been divided.' The pluperfect would work fine there up to 1944, but the narrative has reached 1945, so putting 1990 in the pluperfect seems unexpected. An alternate reading, with divisa as an adjective more than as a participle, gets you 'The city 'was being divided' = 'was standing divided', and that's probably what it's trying to say. IacobusAmor 13:49, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)

Id constructionem similem esse mihi videtur apud Caesaris bellum Gallicum: "Dumnorigi Haeduo, fratri Diviciaci, qui eo tempore principatum in civitate obtinebat ac maxime plebi acceptus erat, ..." --Alex1011 16:53, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)

Circiter[fontem recensere]

My dictionary (Stowasser) gives adverbium: media circiter nocte, and praepositio: circiter meridiem. --Alex1011 13:59, 6 Octobris 2007 (UTC)