Disputatio:Arma ignifera
(Redirectum de Disputatio:Sclopetum)
Wikt[fontem recensere]
Vide etiam wikt:disputatio:sclopetum. --Alex1011 07:13, 14 Septembris 2007 (UTC)
1000 pages[fontem recensere]
(Copied from Usor:Rolandus/Most important 1000 pages/Firearm. --Rolandus 05:11, 11 Aprilis 2008 (UTC))
Hmm, can we count sclopetum? --Iustinus 09:13, 19 Martii 2008 (UTC)
- Just to mention: At the moment Sclopetum is not linked to en:Firearm. --Rolandus 20:09, 10 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm, yeah, oddly it's linked to en:Long gun. It is sometimes claimed that sclopetum means "rifle." I don't know if period sources back up that equation, but modern Latinists generally seem to use it as a general term, and indeed sclopetum has several images of pistols. Now of course en uses the military terminology, i.e. en:Gun covers artillery (which really should be bombarda or tormentum), and en:firearm covers what is commonly called a "gun" by civilians. So imho it's safe to link sclopetum to en:firearm. --Iustinus 04:48, 11 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- After dwelling on it a bit, I feel it would be a good thing in the long run to separate "Sclopetum" ="rifle" from "arma ignifera"="fire arms", "carabina"="carbine" (shorter variety of rifle); right now most of this page is a description of "arma ignifera"--Rafaelgarcia 21:29, 17 Augusti 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm, yeah, oddly it's linked to en:Long gun. It is sometimes claimed that sclopetum means "rifle." I don't know if period sources back up that equation, but modern Latinists generally seem to use it as a general term, and indeed sclopetum has several images of pistols. Now of course en uses the military terminology, i.e. en:Gun covers artillery (which really should be bombarda or tormentum), and en:firearm covers what is commonly called a "gun" by civilians. So imho it's safe to link sclopetum to en:firearm. --Iustinus 04:48, 11 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
Ex taberna simulatus(Infra)
--Jondel (disputatio) 12:42, 4 Maii 2013 (UTC)
Greetings. The article sclopetum have wrong interwiki links. The links lead to shotgun, while the Latin article sclopetum is about another weapon or name. It's discussion page leads to Disputatio:Arma ignifera. I do not really know how to solve it. Please help.
Donatello (disputatio) 00:04, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC).
- The English rifle should link to Sclopetum while the shotgun link should be removed. Ok with all?--Jondel (disputatio) 11:00, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- I see. That sounds good. :) Unfortunately I couldn't find any name for "shotgun" in Latin. Anybody who knows/can?
- Donatello (disputatio) 17:48, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC).
- Not clear that we have separate words for "rifle" (= gun with long barrel with spiral groove) and "shotgun" (= any long-barrel gun, typically not rifled). In David Morgan's lexicon I find sclopetum, manuballista ignivoma, pyroballista, carabina (= "rifle"?), bombarda (= "musket" or "shotgun"?). English WP has separate articles for "[[:en:gun|gun]" and "firearm," which seems strange to me. Our Arma ignifera is linked with en:firearm, which is sensible enough. Our Carbina is linked with en:carbine, apparently a kind of short rifle. All our articles seem fairly short. Perhaps it would make sense to link sclopetum to en:gun and make it the most general article, about firearms with long or short barrels, rifled or not -- unless someone has the time, interest, and expertise to distinguish these various kinds of weaponry. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:29, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed with the sclopetum-gun link. I have focile for shotgun and sclopetum striatum for rifle from Traupman. I would like to make changes accordingly however, anyone is free to make these changes.--Jondel (disputatio) 13:05, 26 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Not clear that we have separate words for "rifle" (= gun with long barrel with spiral groove) and "shotgun" (= any long-barrel gun, typically not rifled). In David Morgan's lexicon I find sclopetum, manuballista ignivoma, pyroballista, carabina (= "rifle"?), bombarda (= "musket" or "shotgun"?). English WP has separate articles for "[[:en:gun|gun]" and "firearm," which seems strange to me. Our Arma ignifera is linked with en:firearm, which is sensible enough. Our Carbina is linked with en:carbine, apparently a kind of short rifle. All our articles seem fairly short. Perhaps it would make sense to link sclopetum to en:gun and make it the most general article, about firearms with long or short barrels, rifled or not -- unless someone has the time, interest, and expertise to distinguish these various kinds of weaponry. A. Mahoney (disputatio) 18:29, 23 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Good Jondel. :) Thanks. Also thanks for the word to "shotgun". Is focile neutral? And where shoud it be stressed?
- Donatello (disputatio) 15:43, 26 Aprilis 2013 (UTC).
- I have to look at my notes. It is great you noticed this Donatello.--Jondel (disputatio) 09:51, 27 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- the article armamignifera already gives more or less the correct terms. Sclopetum is any long firearm. Shotgun is sclopetum dispergens. Focile is a type of musket, one that uses flintlock mechanism. A rifle is a sclopetum torquens which perhaps better named sclopetum striatum (traupman)--118.160.19.127 18:05, 26 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- It is great we can agree on rifle. Perhaps we should house this all under the category of Armae igniferae. In the meantime I will work on the rifle article.--Jondel (disputatio) 09:51, 27 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Arma is already plural. The singular 'armum' doesn't exist; instead we use 'telum' for the singular idea; although I think telum is an offensive weapon only and doesn't include the idea of defense like arma does.--118.169.161.194 14:19, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Ok. Could I ask the source for 'sclopetum dispergens'? To salvage the links, I would like to move the sclopetum article to 'sclopetum dispergens'. Then rewrite or translate from the English shotgun article. Can I ask also the source for focile as musket? I think sclopetum has to do with a certain Italian word for 'brush' which is used for old muskets. I can not say for sure. --Jondel (disputatio) 15:00, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Jondel there is no source for the usage of "sclopetum dispergens" as a noun meaning shotgun, only dispergere as part of a sentence describing ancient flintlock style dragoons and the like. Sclopetum dispergens is just a direct word for word translation of the english 'scatter gun' or 'scatter-gun' which is a common english synonym. Focile isn't the word for musket. Musket is mosquetum. Mosquetum focile or focile is clearly attested to mean a flintlock musket (also called a fusil in english/french and used by a soldier called a fusilier), but focile can be used to refer to any kind of flintlock gun (focile coming from 'petra focilis' meaning flint).--118.169.161.194 15:22, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Ok. However, keep in mind in the future somebody else would see the Traupman entry and move the sclopetum dispergens to focile(for shotgun)...... Anyway, I would like to move the current sclopetum to 'sclopetum dispergens' and rewrite/translate from the shotgun article. Also create an arma ignifer category to house all related articles. Seriously.--Jondel (disputatio) 15:32, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Jondel there is no source for the usage of "sclopetum dispergens" as a noun meaning shotgun, only dispergere as part of a sentence describing ancient flintlock style dragoons and the like. Sclopetum dispergens is just a direct word for word translation of the english 'scatter gun' or 'scatter-gun' which is a common english synonym. Focile isn't the word for musket. Musket is mosquetum. Mosquetum focile or focile is clearly attested to mean a flintlock musket (also called a fusil in english/french and used by a soldier called a fusilier), but focile can be used to refer to any kind of flintlock gun (focile coming from 'petra focilis' meaning flint).--118.169.161.194 15:22, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Ok. Could I ask the source for 'sclopetum dispergens'? To salvage the links, I would like to move the sclopetum article to 'sclopetum dispergens'. Then rewrite or translate from the English shotgun article. Can I ask also the source for focile as musket? I think sclopetum has to do with a certain Italian word for 'brush' which is used for old muskets. I can not say for sure. --Jondel (disputatio) 15:00, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Arma is already plural. The singular 'armum' doesn't exist; instead we use 'telum' for the singular idea; although I think telum is an offensive weapon only and doesn't include the idea of defense like arma does.--118.169.161.194 14:19, 29 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- It is great we can agree on rifle. Perhaps we should house this all under the category of Armae igniferae. In the meantime I will work on the rifle article.--Jondel (disputatio) 09:51, 27 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
Could we collate and summarize?
- Sclopetum is a hand carreied barrel gun ( shotguns, carbines and rifles as oppossed to or excluding cannons and pistols.--Jondel (disputatio) 12:25, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Secundum indicem Morganianum, sclopetum certissime est 'pistol': " manuballistula* [Latinitas]; pistolium* [Vox Lat.]; sclopêtum+ minus; sclopellum* [Avellanus] (Helf.) ]] manuballistula (LRL) ]] sclopetum (Lev.)" IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:49, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Iam est Pistolium. Nunc sclopetum nexit a "Shotgun". Velim creare sclopetum dispergens nectando Shotgun. Mansit Sclopetum(?? how now brown cow).--Jondel (disputatio) 12:59, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
- Secundum indicem Morganianum, sclopetum certissime est 'pistol': " manuballistula* [Latinitas]; pistolium* [Vox Lat.]; sclopêtum+ minus; sclopellum* [Avellanus] (Helf.) ]] manuballistula (LRL) ]] sclopetum (Lev.)" IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:49, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)
-This article is to exist independently, no interwiki links.
- Shotgun is Sclopetum dispergens sclopetum cum cylindro longo sclopendo propinque. (a long gund with a long barrel for short range). I'll fix this up and add stuff from the English wiki.--Jondel (disputatio) 12:25, 30 Aprilis 2013 (UTC)