Disputatio:High School Musical

I have no interest in this article, but I have an interest in good Latin. Cave auctor, if you don't come fix this I will fix the Latin at the extreme purgation of content.--Ioshus ^(disp) 13:20, 30 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name[fontem recensere]

In pagina Studii Disney, "High School Musical" Latine est "Musicalis Lycealis". Estne bona Latina? Debemusne movere haec pagina ad "Musicalis Lycealis"? --Secundus Zephyrus 03:34, 8 Maii 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ach! Verbum unum numquam crederem ex pagina cum nomine tam barbarico quam Studii Disney...--Ioshus ^(disp) 04:02, 8 Maii 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Musical" as in a stage or movie musical and"high school" are relatively new terms, so we need to use neologisms. "Musical" comes from the adjective form of music, which in Latin would be "musicalis". I used "lyceum" for high school because Italian and in some cases Spanish use "liceo", which are their versions of the ancient Latin word "lyceum". The adjective form "lycealis" comes from the use of the adjective form "liceale" in Italian. So I would say that given that "high school" and "musical" are modern concepts which have no ancient Latin words for them, and given the Latin grammatical rules, "Musicalis lycealis" is good Latin. -Kedemus 05:20, 30 Octobris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

musicus is already an adjective meaning 'musical'. 'musicalis,' which is apparently too late a formation to make it into Lewis & Short, would be derived from it ("musicalian" or "musicianal" maybe). Anyway, while 'musical' for a work of musical theater may be a new use of a term, the things themselves are not; the plays of Plautus were musicals. —Mucius Tever 13:14, 3 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Classical Latin does use "musicus" as an adjective meaning music. However, medieval Latin uses "musica" only for the noun form and "musicalis" for the adjective. I am going to say that both forms are acceptable. In English we also sometimes use "music" for the adjective, as in "music video", but in other times we use "musical" as in "musical instrument". However, for a musical play we should always use "musicalis". If we use "musica" it simply means "music", which is inaccurate. -Kedemus 07:22, 14 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "If we use "musica" it simply means "music", which is inaccurate."—I don't get your point here. This musica also simply means 'musical' in various cases of feminine singular & neuter plural. We already have ludus for '(stage) play', and ludus musicus is therefore perfectly intelligible as a reference to a "musical." Since the English term itself is a short or slang form of musical play, there may be no reasonable objection to calling a "musical" in Latin a musicus (scil. ludus). ¶ For 'school', schola is obvious (as, for the same thing, so is ludus!). There may well be attested terms for high school. If not, maybe schola superior would do. And of course the adjective scholasticus is available. ¶ So, putting it all together for the whole title: Musicus Scholasticus. IacobusAmor 12:34, 14 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Further, Kedeme, hear what Muke is saying, if it's so late a formation that it doesn't even make it into L@S, we probably shouldn't be using it here.--Ioscius ^(disp) 13:46, 14 Novembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I applaud Kedemus for taking a cue from modern Romance, a technique which I believe is indispensable when trying to coin reasonable Latin terms for modern concepts or items. Modern Spanish/Italian/Portuguese "musica" is most likely a projection of the neuter plural "musica" (i.e. "all things musical") into a feminine singular categorization, a phenomenon which was quite common in Vulgar Latin and Proto-Romance. However, if there are already existing classical words that can be used or assembled into a decently equivalent phrase without becoming clumsy or unreasonably long, then we should probably do so. According to my dictionary, "scholae" means "advanced school," so the "superior" might be redundant. Pulling together all the information gathered here, I think a more conservative translation would be "Ludus Musicus Scholae."--

Modern Spanish/Italian/Portuguese "musica" is most likely a projection of the neuter plural "musica" (i.e. "all things musical") into a feminine singular categorization — "Most likely" on what grounds? It appears to be a perfectly ordinary feminine singular of the adjective, agreeing with an understood ars. —Mucius Tever 15:18, 15 Decembris 2007 (UTC)[reply]