Disputatio:Epistula encyclica

How's this read? Alright? Alexanderr 23:02, 11 Septembris 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty good overall. I know you don't like stylistic arguments, so I'll try to stick to grammar.

Er... OK, this is style: shouldn't the title be epistula encyclica? Certainly google shows that order to be much more frequent. I haven't really pondered the question of capitals either, but it seems like this should be in lower case.
What does senu mean? Did you mean to say senatu?
Likewise "principale Episcopum", whatever senu means, is probably wrong. If principale modifies senu, and senu is in the ablative (if it's a fourth declension neuter, I suppose that could be accusative), then it should be principali. And if "Episcopum" is meant to mean "of the bishops" then it should say episcoporum.
"etiam cum non ex Cathedra"... I don't think you can use a cum construction without a verb. The intricacies of when cum clauses require a subjunctive and when they don't are somewhat confusing, even to me, but I think here we would want an indicative: "etiam cum non Ex Cathedra sunt." Were I writing this article I might say possunt (utrum sint Ex Cathedra an non)... or some other construction.
A problem you often have, is unfortunately very difficult to explain. But basically it's this: in English you can use just about anything as an adjective. In Latin you pretty much can only use an adjective (including participles), or a relative clause that way. So for instance, in English we can say "school book" but in Latin you would have to use something like liber scholasticus (*schola liber won't work). This is also true, in good Latin, of prepositional phrases: you can't really say encyclica epistula ex cathedra ("an Ex Cathedra encyclical) unless you put a verb in there (so that it would literally mean something like "an encyclical which is Ex Cathedra"). The problem is, since Ex Cathedra means "From the Chair" should the verb be "be" or some verb of motion? Or something else entirely? Honestly I would have to wade through too much ecclesiastical Latin before I would ever stumble on the correct answer to this, so for now I'll just suggest "be", and tell you to keep your eyes open.

--Iustinus 00:50, 12 Septembris 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I don't mind stylistic arguments if you can help me I'd listen to you.

Well I got Encyclica Epistula from Whitaker's Words but if it is incorrect I have no problem changing it.
Senu was a typo. I meant sensu
well I literally meant "to the....or, in the primary sense [of the word], to the bishop".
Well I'm not sure what the proper construct is. Could I just add "est" somewhere? Would that fix it?
Well now I'm confused. I thought you said that you can't make compound nouns. Isn't scolasticus a noun? It might not be compounded but it is close enough to be confusing... As for Ex Cathedra I think the helping verb "be" could work, however I too am not to sure myself. Alexanderr 01:26, 12 Septembris 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I wouldn't say it's wrong per se, just that it makes more sense to do it the other way.
OK, that makes more... sense.
Hmmm... principalis is probably not the right word here. I'm not sure what's better, perhaps sensu stricto "in the narrow sense; in the most proper sense; in the non-metaphorical sense" But were I writing this, I think I would reverse the sentence: "...to a bishop or, in a wider sense, the the people generally."
Scholasticus -a -um is an adjective. But in Latin adjectives can be used as "substantives" (≈nouns): magnus can mean either "big" or "a big man." Some words can do this in English too, e.g. "American," but in Latin, pretty much any adjective can. But that's not the issue here (I bring it up only because you felt scholasticus to be a noun). Ioshus will probably tell me to shut up, because I just keep confusing you more. But did you understand my main point? That if you're not careful, ex cathedra will end up being used as an adjective, and you want to avoid that if possible. --Iustinus 04:57, 12 Septembris 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I should have been more clear: you need to avoid using ex cathedra as an attributive adjective, but it's ok to use it as a predicative one. What does this mean? It means you can't say "This is an Ex Cathedra encyclical" but you can say "This encyclical is ex cathedra" or "This is an encyclical which is ex cathedra." In other words, you need a verb or a participle to attatch the prepositional phrase to the noun. You have already taken care of this, so you're OK now. Does that clarify it? --Iustinus 05:57, 12 Septembris 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I understand it in this case so thanks, Alexanderr 06:09, 12 Septembris 2006 (UTC)[reply]